Recoil/Noise: Flash Hider vs. Comp

[ipsick]

Trying to get an idea what the recoil/noise differences are between a Flash Hider vs. a Comp.

Specifically, I have an 18" .308 JP Barrel with JP Tactical Comp and I am considering replacing the Comp with the Smith Vortex Flash Hider.  I am also currently using a JP Adjustable Gas Block with the JP Low Mass BCG.

The consideration for the Flash Hider is for use in the field for hunting and I figure it is a good alternative to a plain jane barrel thread protector.  So will the Smith Vortex be better noise-wise for hunting and what kind of recoil increase am I looking at with the Smith Vortex?  With my current system of JP Comp, Adjustable Gas Block, and Low Mass BCG the recoil is barely any more than my .223 JP AR.  Will supplanting the JP Comp with the Smith Vortex make a substantial increase in recoil?

Anyone out there with empirical (experiential) comparisons of recoil between a flash hider and comp in a .308 AR?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[98Z5V]

Trying to get an idea what the recoil/noise differences are between a Flash Hider vs. a Comp.

Specifically, I have an 18" .308 JP Barrel with JP Tactical Comp and I am considering replacing the Comp with the Smith Vortex Flash Hider.  I am also currently using a JP Adjustable Gas Block with the JP Low Mass BCG.

The consideration for the Flash Hider is for use in the field for hunting and I figure it is a good alternative to a plain jane barrel thread protector.  So will the Smith Vortex be better noise-wise for hunting and what kind of recoil increase am I looking at with the Smith Vortex?  With my current system of JP Comp, Adjustable Gas Block, and Low Mass BCG the recoil is barely any more than my .223 JP AR.  Will supplanting the JP Comp with the Smith Vortex make a substantial increase in recoil?

Anyone out there with empirical (experiential) comparisons of recoil between a flash hider and comp in a .308 AR?

Thanks in advance for your help.

My take on it, brother - Comp, Brake, FH.  Combinations of those.

Compensator - affects muzzle rise/twist, and might mitigate a little flash.

Brake - be damned to concussion or side-blast or flash, it mitigates felt recoil to the shooter.

Flash Hider - just that.  It doesn't really worry about muzzle rise or twist to the shooter, or concussion to other shooters beside you, but it worries about suppressing muzzle flash.

Combinations - there are many, and they're not perfect at any one thing, but do the best at a few things.

I'm not trying to school you, ipsick, just providing my 0.02 bullets here, for others.  Depends on what you want, primarily - because there's always a trade-off.  If you only want recoil reduction (.50 BMG, .338 LM, etc), then run a brake.  If .308 Win recoil through your bolt gun is too harsh, run that brake.  Side-blast to others is gonna suck, and you'll have flash. 

If you need to mitigate signature (flash), but still keep a heavy rifle on target, for follow-up shots, but you're not gonna die if someone else sees the flash, then maybe a comp might be in order - it might limit the signature, and benefit something for recoil reduction.

If flash suppression is the max desire, like in a military-type ambush - you hit them with everything you have and don't want to give up position, outside of noise - noise discipline goes RIGHT out the window in an ambush...  then go for flash suppression.

Several companies manage this well, in a couple areas - AAC makes the BrakeOut - does okay at the "brake" capabilities, and manages Flash Suppression, decently.  I run this on a .308 rifle.  It also is a quick-attach for the AAC Suppressor.

That leads me into the next direction - best thing ever for flash suppression, braking, and signature reduction, will be a suppressor.  <thumbsup>

My $0.02.

[Robocop1051]

http://308ar.com/forum/general-discussion/muzzle-device-comparison/

Check that one out!

[ipsick]

Thank you for the responses so far.

98Z5V, good info but not exactly what I am looking for.  Could help others though.

Robocop1051, a little closer to what I am looking for because the vid gives me some type of comparison.  But it is using .223/5.56 ammo.

Maybe my OP was too verbose and indirect.

I am asking for the following comparisons for a .308 semi-auto AR

1. Is the recoil substantially different between a comp like the JP and a flash hider like the Smith Vortex? 

*Would an adjustable gas block and low mass carrier mitigate the difference?

2.  Is a flash hider like the Smith Vortex noticeably quieter than a comp like the JP? 

*I realize a suppressor is ideal for noise concern but I am a California resident and it would be next to impossible for me to legally have one.  Also a thread protector might work to reduce noise as compared to a comp but I thought I could go with a flash hider instead.  I could be wrong, hence the request for help.

[blwn99x]

1.Yes the recoil will be different going from a comp to a flash hider, will it be dramatic, I know it is from my surefire brake to my old a2 birdcage. Adjustable gas block and low mass carrier do help, how much? not sure. 2.The flash hider might be "noticeably" quieter than the comp, but the sound is coming from the same cartridge so there isn't any more sound,the muzzle device redirects the exhaust gases to mitigate recoil, so to the shooter or others it appears to be louder when being in or near the direction of the ports.  The thread protector is going to protect the threads, it is the same as and open barrel, so this will have the most flash and recoil as it isnt designed to mitigate anything. The flash hider as compared to the brake with have more recoil and less flash, and the flash hider will not have as much flash or recoil as a threat protector. My a2 birdcage has some recoil reducing capabilities due to the ports facing the top of the muzzle device. I put surefire muzzle brake adapters on both my 5.56 and 308 guns as recoil reduction was my primary concern. I hope this helps some, so many choices out there that I'm sure you can find exactly what you want.

[ipsick]

blwn99x, great response.

Seems like with sound as one of my concerns, it isn't a matter of reducing sound (well because I won't be getting a suppressor anytime soon).  The bigger matter is where the sound (gases) is directed.  Robocop1051 described this in another thread and blwn99x has described it again in this thread.  With my JP Comp, the gases are directed upward and to the sides which makes it seem louder to myself and nearby shooters.  I wonder with the Vortex's helical design if anymore sound (gases) is dissipated than compared to other hiders.  Probably just subjective qualitative differences more than actual differences.  Another consideration given in another forum is the Noveske KX3 which directs the gases forward.  Might look into this option.

However, per blwn99x's description, recoil increase will be dramatic so I am unsure if I will decide to spend the money to replace the JP Comp.

Robocop1051, I think I was wrong on the usefulness of the video you linked.  Even though it used .223/5.56 examples there were some significant comparisons.  I wish they had a Smith Vortex in the comparison.  Also maybe a higher quality video would be better also.  Youtube has better quality but breaks the comparisons into five segments.

Thanks again all.  I think I got most of what I needed and I am hoping Mr. NoFail can help me get the subjective empirical data I need soon.

[NoFail]

Mine has JP LMOS BCG, JP Adj. Gas Block and Slash's CAR 10-XH buffer w/mod'd Armalight spring. As you know, ipsick, I have the Smith Vortex FH. They call it a flash eliminator, but I had in the mountains and fired a round off in the darkness. There was a flash coming outa there and I was not impressed.

The LMOS BCG and buffer and adj gas block reduced "felt" recoil. Shooting off hand muzzle recoil ain't so bad at all. And felt recoil is rather subdued, tame. Shooing prone or off bench there is a good little jump.

We should meet at SL range soon when you can and you can take the wheel and see how it handles.

[98Z5V]

ipsick, you can have the best (combination) of both worlds, in a way.

Go heavier on the buffer, to help with the recoil - heavier buffers DO help with that.  After that, you can run the AAC Blackout flash hider, and almost eliminate all the flash. 

[ipsick]

ipsick, you can have the best (combination) of both worlds, in a way.

Go heavier on the buffer, to help with the recoil - heavier buffers DO help with that.  After that, you can run the AAC Blackout flash hider, and almost eliminate all the flash.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think that I might just stay with the comp.  After trying NoFail's setup with the Vortex, the felt recoil differences was actually negligible but the muzzle jump was significant.  Noise was probably about the same though with more apparent noise to fellow shooters.  Reduced flash signature was relatively low on my list of priorities.