Counter Sniper Military Optical Gunsite Corp.

[SWATSniper]

I recently took a chance on a scope called Counter Sniper after a buddy bought one for approx $650.00. I looked his scope over, eyeballed the optics and really liked what I saw. I did some research on them and say a lot of he "hear say" crowd bashing the reticle (TDRM) because they though it was "sci-fi". Having extensive experience with the MilDot system I can tell you that the TDRM has A LOT to offer those who know how to use it. Also, some people just couldn't believe that the optic was worth the advertised "retail" prices. Having had one in my hands and saw what it was I forked out the $650 knowing full well what I was getting.

I was an active SWAT Sniper for 8 years and mainly used Leupold's optics with the USMC Mil Dot system. So please don't bash me on my experience with optics, I knew what I was getting.

Once it arrived I mounted it to my LR308 and went to the range. The optic is an amazing 10-40x56! I was working out to 300 yards and keeping sub moa (under 3" at that distance) groups with the rifle and this optic. It has all the options I would want out of a scope and at a good price for them.

I've read some of the reviews that people have posted that didn't have hands on experience with the optic and I am writing to tell you that this scope is worth every penny as far as I am concerned.

No, its not NightForce, US Optics, Leupold, or some of the other big names in scopes. But it is a new company and even the other guys were new one time. I remember when the name "NightForce" was a joke among the Snipers I worked with. No one is laughing at them now. I think I got a great scope at a great price. It may not be known as the top of the line today but its putting holes through paper close enough that it will stay on my rifle for years to come!

On another small note. I had the need to call the manufacturer and actually ended up talking to Frank Miller, the CEO of Dark Ops Holdings. HE is a great guy, ex-SWAT too, and was very helpful. Everytime I have called with a question or a need they have been right on top of it!

Just my .02, for what they are worth ;)

[imschur]

I recall reading on some optics site that these scopes were re-badged from another company and you could get them slightly cheaper under the manufacturers name. Don't know if its true or not.

Thanks for the informative post. I think thats a price range thats critical for a lot of guys

[specopsscout]

I had a long reply to this thread typed out about the pitfalls of dealing with junk scopes and mall ninja marketing, but decided to simply respond more succinctly with a...

"Uhh...no."

[SWATSniper]

Knowing nothing about the"mall ninja" culture I will just have to take you at your word on that.

So far as "junk scopes", I stand my ground. This scope is not junk or I wouldn't have one myself. I don't claim it to be the best on the market, BUT, for the price, options,  warranty and service support (that I personally have experienced) I feel they are a fair deal.

Far be it for me to suggest anyone with plenty of money to spend not indulge themselves.

I address this to those who don't have thousands to spend on a scope but want one with the aforementioned qualities.

If someone has handled one of these scopes and has more than a hearsay opinion, I would love to hear from them. Opinion based on experience, personal experience. Like my time as a paid, professional, working sniper, over 8 years of actual, honest experience, NOT HEARSAY.

(Picture below, Camp Lejune N.C., 2001)

[SWATSniper]

(Pictured are other members of the 2001 USMC Law Enforcement Sniper Course at Camp Lejune)

[specopsscout]

Hey Brother,

I read your screen name, as well as your aforementioned qualifications; you've made it a point to restate it in near every post you've made. Thanks for your LEO service. Here's a quick snippet of mine; 14 years Marine Corps and Army Veteran, including six years as a Scout; 18 years state LEO; current Lieutenant ranking, including former SWAT Team Leader, current Admin on a Sniper web site with about six years in that position, ect.

I'm familiar with their optics, and have handled one, after one of my Cops unknowingly took advice from a web site, and bought into the hype that is Dark Ops. The glass was not of good quality. Fish eye and clouding was evident. Eye relief was crappy. The construction was poor. The range of travel was poor. It didn't track correctly. It changed zero with very minimal abuse. The advertising listed the scope line as being "military overruns", but none use Dark Ops to my knowledge. They refused to answer questions,  quoting the often noted "classified" or "contractual" BS covers. They offered their top of the line day optic for 7 grand(As in two plus times the cost of a S&B). They use the standard low end optic trick of big numbers in power and objective to help draw the uninformed into thinking they are something special...They are reported to have come on line not long after Hakko dumped a number of spare parts looking strikingly the same. They have previously invested a great deal of money into advertising campaigns in several gun rags. Money is a finite item. If you are selling something and soak most of your finite resources into full color full page ad space using terms like "clandestine target elimination" and showing well over the top tactically kitted models, how much of those resources are left, going into the product. My Cop paid about four hundred for his with shipping, and it was by my estimation, too much....My personal experience with the line is consistent with other shooters impressions discussed in several locations throughout the web. Customer service informed him that as his scope was a "military overrun" model, they would not refund, nor replace the optic...

Comparing it's future to the Nightforce line is like saying the Yugo was destined for greatness, because Corvettes sell so well...My Philosophy professor would have called that a fallacy of logic.

I'm glad you like your scope Bro, but something from the Sightron line, the Super Sniper, or Super Sniper variable, would all have been better choices in that price range and in all cases gotten you much more scope for a lower or similar price.

Respectfully,

Harry

PS

Nice pictures...

[SWATSniper]

Thank you specopsscout,

That covered just about every negative thing I've heard about the scopes in a nut shell.

However, the reason for my thread was to state my opinion based on my experience with the scope to be informative to those who had only heard of the company. And, as I said, welcome any other opinions based on experience. And for that I thank you.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their freedom to voice it is why we fight.

[specopsscout]

Hey Bro,

I'll look forward to your long term experience with it. Run some box tests, try it in different light, give your rifle a bounce test and see if it holds zero. Leopards don't normally change their spots, but anything is possible and they've been on the market long enough, that maybe they've decided to get their act together. Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes, folks actually listen to the criticism and improve...time will tell...

Respectfully,

Harry

[Matt.Cross]

Well, I will contest neither of you gentlemen's experience or validity, but I must say that from the standpoint of the layman (me) that doesn't have the benefit of your experience, it's nice to know where I can get equipment that meets YOUR standards on MY budget. Thanks to both of you for your service, and for the equipment reviews. <thumbsup>

[SWATSniper]

UPDATE: I had a MINOR issue with one of the scope rings, they are 35mm so there are no local replacements, that I know of.

I called the company, explained the issue. The guy said he would look up my warranty card info and take care of it. He took down my address to verify it with the card and that was the end of the call. After about 3 days UPS shows up with a box. I was expecting a delivery, but this was not it. It was from Dark Ops and was a brand new SET of scope rings! I only had a problem with the one and only expected it via US postal service, 1st class at best.

They went above and beyond my expectations for the warranty repair of the ring. I wasn't happy about the ring problem BUT I have to say, it made me feel great to see them stand behind their product and be so fast to make it right. 

[specopsscout]

Hey Matt,

Glad to help Brother. <thumbsup>

Hey SS,

That sounds like excellent customer service. What was the "MINOR issue" with the scope ring that required it's exchange?

Respectfully,

Harry

PS

Since the introduction of the IOR line, 35mm isn't too extreme to replace. You won't find them in the local outfitters ring line up yet, but they are available from a few reputable makers. Badger Ordnance, the old standby, offers them. US Optics and Seekins makes very nice rings in 35mm, but they might be a bit pricey for your application. TPS also makes them in that size, and they are generally of very good quality and the prices more reasonable. IOR actually started including TPS rings into their line up, renamed to VTac rings.

[SWATSniper]

The mount bolt walked loose only on the one ring even after it was properly torqued to begin with and re-torqued after I noticed it.. Think it was a weak spot in the threads of that particular bolt/nut combo. Maybe it could have been fixed with some blue loctite but with the unit being new I wanted to go the "customer service" route. I was not disappointed by their response. I found out that their CEO also designed some of the knives in their Dark Ops knife line.

[98Z5V]

Dark Ops Holdings is who owns the Counter Sniper company...  Dark Ops has the knives, scopes, and flashlights - all three companies.  <thumbsup>

[benjammin]

I put a Counter Sniper scope atop my LR-308 recently, and have had no complaints as yet with it.  Mine is the 3-25 x 56 and the optics are on par with the Leupold, Nikon, and Bushnell optics I use on other guns.  It is superior to the Leapers, Osprey, NcStar, Vortex, and Alpen stuff I've used.  It's return to zero after 200 rounds and 5 major adjustments is spot on.  Maybe I am a lucky shooter, but I've noticed I am not the only one using CounterSniper scopes at the high power range in competition. 

If they had quality issues before, I am thinking they've been making improvements.  I have no big credentials, just reporting what I experience.  I have yet to really stress the optic like my others have been.  Time will tell, I suppose, but I have no problem recommending them at this point.  On specifications I have no problem comparing them to Nightforce.  I have insufficient experience with either brand at this point to base more subjective comparisons on.  I would say at this point CounterSniper is value for money, but so is Leapers, Leupold, Nikon and Nightforce. 

[SWATSniper]

I finally had to put an A.R.M.S. #22High set of rings on my scope and the rifle and scope are holding 1/4 MOA! I'm happy enough with this scope to leave it right where it's at. Like I've said, I've got a Loopy on my R700PSS and while that is a great scope I'm retired/disabled now and on a fixed income this is a good value for the money.

Still liking my scope.  <thumbsup>

[Matt.Cross]

I have no big credentials, just reporting what I experience.

I finally had to put an A.R.M.S. #22High set of rings on my scope and the rifle and scope are holding 1/4 MOA! I'm happy enough with this scope to leave it right where it's at. Like I've said, I've got a Loopy on my R700PSS and while that is a great scope I'm retired/disabled now and on a fixed income this is a good value for the money.

Still liking my scope.  <thumbsup>

I'll take experience over opinion any day of the week. When it comes to getting a good optic without killing my bank account, it's good to know what will do the trick. I don't have any doubt that maybe high-end optics are better and hold their value, but so far I've never encountered a situation at the range where my life would depend on my optic. There are cheap optics and there are affordable optics, I prefer the latter.