Phantom30

OK if I am using my reticle shown above and I measure the shot at one mil off as you say, I would say that's two tick marks which is 14 clicks. When you look at it in terms of tick marks with a know separation in clicks then its easy. The adjustment is clicks not MOA. MOA is just the scale value which you can skip over thinking about.

This is the range evidence for what I was talking about in terms of chambering affected concentricity. Heartbeat problems on the S&B rounds, old guy hard to slow it down anymore.

First of All, I prefer the MIL/MOA scope, it is the better choice, cheaper and more accurate. Let me explain IMHO. The Clarity and cleanness of the reticle is important. You don’t want a lot of cutter trying to help you with range calculations. The MIL Dot reticles have been a military standard for a long time. The techniques for using that reticle type for range estimation can be investigated at these links. http://www.millettsights.com/resources/shooting-tips/ Multiple topic at the Millett site all relevant to choosing a scope. The image below shows the precision of measurement in a Millett reticle. Nerd Math lets us compare recommended scopes. 140 MOA is 40.7 mils of correction. You have an AP AR so you rail is flat no MOA bias. So all the correction limits are scope based. If your 6.5CM is using Hornady 147gr ELD-M, with a 22” barrel your typical supersonic range limit will be around 1650 yards on a standard day. Notice that the max range correction is 71.6 MOA or 20.8 MILs. If you want a scope the give you this capability you need to have that level of performance. The problem with cited turret elevation values is they don’t reflect the fact that half the value is usually available after mounted and zero. So a 28 MIL elevation scope only has a + 14 MILs or a 140 MOA scope has + 70 MOA or 20 MILs. To squeak out maximum range performance you need a scope that will do that without reverting to holdover techniques. A MOA turret scope has more sensitive corrections. A 1/10th MIL click is 0.36 inches at 100 yards, while a 1/4th MOA click is 0.251 inches. The key here is that corrections are measured in CLICKS not MILs or MOA. When you think of it like that all the six digit math is reduced to simple integers. As shown below. The clean reticle example has the click values overlaid that is all you need to remember. Each tick mark is 7 clicks on this second focal plane reticle set at 25 power. There is a one click round off adjustment at 35 clicks but you can compensate of ignore it. Reading the reticle in terms of ticks whether bars of dots and determining the adjustments in clicks make math simple. Therefore, the preferred MIL/MOA scope more accurate and simpler to use for range estimation and adjustments. Finally the cost, the lower cost higher performance choice So The more accurate, lower cost choice would be the ADE. in MIL/MOA

Sellier and Bellot 140gr FMJBT is the most cost effective and reliable tactical ammo, if you don't mind shooting Euro trash now owned by a Brazilian company. Never bother with anything that has a soft tip in an semi-auto. Like Hornady white tail SP. Maintaining concentricity is the ammo side of accuracy. Even ELDs and BTHPs will deform slightly from contact with the feed ramps or the chamber counterbore. Even a slight ding will open the group. Federal Fusion seems to hold even with its funky tip. The ding does not manifest all the time but I would bet on a flier in one in ten. The S&B 140 has a G1BC at .548 and is supersonic out to 1300 yards. The best factory ammo is the Hornady 147gr ELD-M with a G1BC .697 supersonic out to 1650 on standard conditions, using 22" barrels. So you give up some performance with the S&B but reduced flier potential. Hope this helps.

Well I would have recommended a Millett LRS-1 with 1/10 Mil turrets but they stopped making them, so this clone was a close as I could get.

So correct, my search skills must really suck, so I bought an AP carbine kit and the spring length is 11.5" with 26 twists. Installed today and the rifle functions as expected. Therefore, I have confirmed the obvious, that the DPMS LR308 carbine receiver extension kit is not compatible with the AP M5 lower and of course the AP carbine kit is. Once again you are right.

If you want long range at a reasonable price, how about a 6-25 x56 MIL dot second focal plane reticle. https://www.amazon.com/Ade-Advanced-Optics-6-25X56-Illuminated/dp/B00CUOLXFU/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=ade+long+range+scope&qid=1550858428&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-1 This is basically a Millett clone LRS-1 guts in a TRS-1 tube. It has the 140 MOA turrets which you will need to get the crosshairs on 1650 yards with Hornady 147gt ELD. It comes the 6 screw 2000g rings and the its $238

Well it doesn't work so, did I get the wrong spring in the kit. 10.5" long, about 2mm thick wire 36 twists. mounted in an AP M5 receiver set with Tool craft NiB BCG, 2.5" 3.5oz buffer

Just unpacked the Condor case and to confirmed it does have the dual gun partition and dual padded back pack type straps as well as the sling. So far looks like a good valve.

Well OK, my daughter gives me CTD gift cards for Christmas that's my only business there, so I'll have to tell her they are no longer on the nice list and are now on the naughty list thanks

Wow the wrath of 98Z5V, haven't felt that for almost a month. Thanks. Well anyway the Optic Planet deal for the condor was good enough for me to order one for myself this morning before I go to the range. Hope that didn't upset anybody. Should I draw a neck under the target dot and shoot for that?

80% lowers are not guaranteed to mate with commercial uppers. Now or when you get it done, drop buy a store and try some uppers on to be sure before you commit to a brand or model. The takedown and pivot pin alignments need to be right and close the receiver properly. These things are not standardized. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Maybe too late but voodoo, condor and midway make acceptable stuff. Right now Optics planet has a good condor for $82 shipped https://www.voodootactical.net/voodoo-tactical-15-7981-enhanced-molle-sniper-rifle-drag-bag.html Voodoo Tactical 15-7981 Enhanced MOLLE Sniper Rifle Drag Bag ($125 at cheaper than dirt) https://www.midwayusa.com/product/939171584/midwayusa-sniper-drag-bag-tactical-rifle-case MidwayUSA Sniper Drag Bag Tactical Rifle Case ($120) https://www.opticsplanet.com/condor-52in-sniper-drag-bag-soft-gun-cases.html?_iv_code=1SA-GC-SDB-111107-498 Condor 52in Sniper Drag Bag Soft Gun Cases Up to 37% Off w/ Free S&H ($82) My 24" barrel aero precision 6.5CM has a JP recoil eliminator, a luth-AR MBA-1 stock, a Millett LRS-1 scope and it just fits in the condor dual gun

OK here is the guy: dhunter@magpul.com and the case number: Magpul Case #85118 CRM:0008139

JP enterprises Recoil Eliminator comes with both your fit and finish, ugly but effective.

I not a real fan of loose ammo. So I thought it would be nice if MAGPUL put stripper clip cuts in their LR/SR magazines. Response does not fit, will not work, can't happen. Thanks for your interest in national defense. Maybe if enough members would let them know it is not a bad idea they might take some positive action. Thanks.

B.King sorry for spelling and they have a new website https://bkingsfirearms.com/ slow but...

There is no shortage of opinions here but looking at their sale offerings the best deal is the "Oscar" in spite of the fact they list it as an AR-15 when its an AP M5. IMHO Yes N.King is a good Aero Precision distributor at fair prices with good service.

raw AL lower on sale for $65. Anybody know about them. Search return no hits so I am asking

Built a Warrhogg, last spring and factory takedown pin hole doesn't quite align with Aero Precision M5 or M5E1 upper receivers. You can file about a 1/32" off takedown pin to get it to fit but pressure is still there not a good match. One nice thing is JP Weld can fix tooling errors. Best thing to do is mate the upper to it before you machine it, saves time and effort. Of course you have to buy it to test it. I didn't fire it because I have had this type alignment issue before and that can result in following:

Why we wear safety glass, effective ones.

Posted final stuff over on Dracomeister's thread. The AP BCG fixed the 6mm issue with new WOA gas tube, the KAC- DD and ADK found functional homes in the 6.5CMs so all is well thanks. So compatibility is where you find it.

Standardization and compatibility is continuing problem? I have a mutant 24” 6mm Creedmoor R+2 rifle. Original position of gas tube was like that in Dracomeister’s picture. First 14 rounds thru barrel became eventful. Initial three used ADK Defense BCG, seemed to function, switched to KAK BC with Davidson Defense NIB Bolt which was used to set barrel extension. Rifle failed to eject fired casing on last round of a group. Dropped it in receiver with bolt in hold back cleared by hand. During next group it did it again but unnoticed which resulted in casing jam pushing gas tube further forward as shown. After some zealous advice by members here I purchased a custom length proper gas tube from WOA, third picture. With new gas tube installed, ADK BCG would not fit in receiver enough to close. KAK-DD did fit but operated very tight. Both of these BCGs work in 6.5CM shown in fourth picture. So I purchased an Aero Precision BCG in hopes it would properly match receiver with new WOA precise located gas tube. This thread has a wealth of information exploring issues of a non-standard design. Seeing the side by side picture here I examined mine the same way. ADK gas key appears longer. Is it long enough to prevent receiver closing with new gas tube? So I thought I’d organize the data in this thread to see where my stuff stands. First I organized dimensions being collected and then built a matrix of data. Yes, ADK gas key is longer by 0.02, slot is deeper by about 0.05, and bolt closes smaller. So what does it mean? What is keeping ADK BCG from seating properly in order to close 6CM AP M5E1 receiver? AP BCG is fully functional in AP M5 6.5CM and now M5E1 6mm receivers. ADK is working in AP M5 6.5CM, and the KAK-DD in the M5E1 6.5mm. So all is well for now. Why do they work in this one versus that one I don’t know but if it is not broke don’t fix it.

The ADK length and long gas tube are most likely this BCG will not fit with the new WOA gas tube Aero Precision BCG arrives tomorrow.

This is the matrix I be populating if you all think it would be useful. Didn't have any time this weekend but did this morning>