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Failure to Extract


Domino

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AERO M5

 

First iteration was an 18" BHW barrel mid gas. Chamber tighter than it should have been, but worked through it. Fired around 250 rounds suppressed with no issues using an adjustable gas block with about 20% restriction. Shooting 168/175 match exclusively.

 

Opened up gas system to 100% and removed suppressor. Got about 40 rounds of 7.62x51 Winchester white box through it and the extractor broke. Replaced the extractor with a new Leitner-Wise extractor and used old extractor spring. After about ten rounds, the rifle began double feeding (one spent, one live) and stove piping.

 

Replaced extractor spring with springco 5-coil with inner spring, and orange buffer spring. Failure to extract 100% of the time. Everyone I inquired with said it sounded like a tight chamber.

 

Installed new Faxon 18" mid length gas barrel, regular gas block, and new gas tube. 100% failure to extract.

 

I noticed that the sprinco extractor spring has about 1/2 of the spring force of a well worn DPMS factory bolt extractor spring. I installed the DPMS BCG (1500+ rounds on it) and now get extraction/ejection 80% of the time, with the other 20% failure to eject, with the empty case is sitting on the empty magazine with the bolt locked back. The rounds that do extract and eject are barely getting out of the ejection port, landing right next to the rifle. It is more like they are falling out instead of being launched out. (This DPMS BCG will sling the brass 6' out when in its parent LR-308 rifle.)

 

The rim of the ejected cases have decent claw marks on them from the DPMS extractor. At this point, I believe the new Faxon barrel needs to break in as an unspent round in the chamber is difficult to remove (similar to the what the new BHW barrel was doing when new.)

 

Thoughts? Ideas?

 

Will overgassing cause extraction issues? I ask because all of this started after I opened up the gas system (and subsequently stopped using the suppressor.)

 

 

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sounds like you went through the extractor pretty well, but what kind of shape is the ejector and spring in?

 

The ejector and spring are fine. The DPMS BCG flings the brass in the parent rifle, but not in this rifle. The ejector tension in the orginal bolt is higher than the DPMS ejector.

 

I am really starting to believe it is a combination of weak extractor spring (now installing two o-rings and on black buffer with the Sprinco extractor springs - feels like it should), and over gassed. So I am going to put the adjustable gas block back on it, dial it down, and see what that does.

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  Polish the chamber also .

    You should not , as you probably know ,swap Bolts in different barrels . I can see where a Bolt that is broken in , in one Barrel, may not perform in a Barrel Extension of another one , even if Head Space passed in both . Meaning , it my extract fine in one ,but may not in the other Barrel . 

  You can over do the spring pressure on that Extractor & cause problems also . Over gassing may also be an issue .

  Are you using the same magazines , have you tried different brands ?

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  Polish the chamber also .

   

  You can over do the spring pressure on that Extractor & cause problems also . Over gassing may also be an issue .

  Are you using the same magazines , have you tried different brands ?

 

 

 

It took very little pressure to bottom out the extractor. It felt like there was little more than nerf foam for spring tension.

The gas hole in the new barrel measures 3/32" plus or minus, and I have no idea if that is large or small, but it is the same as the BHW gas hole.

I have tried with four different magazine brands/types for the DPMS pattern 308.

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0.094" for the gas port.  Seems large, as that's what you run for a 300BLK barrel (or close to it).  I can't remember what my Fulton .308 barrel was, and those notes are long gone now.  Someone here will have a reference.

 

I'll go measure my unbuilt Rainier 18" barrel and report back in here. 

 

Rainier Arms Select 18" SS barrel, midlength gas system, 0.080" gas port in the barrel.

Edited by 98Z5V
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The problem was two-fold: The spinco double extractor spring was far too soft. I installed one extractor buffer under the inner spring and installed two o-rings over the outer extractor spring to get the proper tension on the extractor.

 

I re-installed the adjustable gas block and from the closed position found the sweet spot at 1.25 turns out. It worked instantly, and ejected the brass about 6-8' consistently.

 

FWIW, I just received another Faxon barrel and the gas hole on it was about .047 diameter. Why the other one was so much larger, I do not know. Maybe they figured it out and changed it.

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0.047" seems TINY.  I've never seen a gas port that small in a .308 AR barrel, or a 5.56 barrel.  What gas system is that new barrel using?

 

I have not yet installed it, but I was probably going to run another adjustable DI system. I do not have all of the parts to put it together yet.

 

The 1.25 turns on the build above was probably near the equivalent of .05ish, since that is very little off the bottom.

Edited by Domino
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I have not yet installed it, but I was probably going to run another adjustable DI system. I do not have all of the parts to put it together yet.

The 1.25 turns on the build above was probably near the equivalent of .05ish, since that is very little off the bottom.

He meant what length gas system does your barrel use, carbine, mid or rifle.

BTW, my 20" .308 BHW barrel's gas port looks to be .099, but it's a rifle length gas system.

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I have not yet installed it, but I was probably going to run another adjustable DI system. I do not have all of the parts to put it together yet.

 

The 1.25 turns on the build above was probably near the equivalent of .05ish, since that is very little off the bottom.

 

Thats funny cause most blocks have a 10-32 thread. 1-1/2 turns on that thread is .046  will be interesting to see if that faxon barrel with the 047 hole runs as it is

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I went to .093 on my custom built 24" ar 308 barrel after .080 was way too small with my reloads of 43 grains of 335 with 150 grain bullets or 40 grains with 168 grains. Cycles perfectly now with either load. I'm using a rifle length gas system.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The problem was two-fold: The spinco double extractor spring was far too soft. I installed one extractor buffer under the inner spring and installed two o-rings over the outer extractor spring to get the proper tension on the extractor.

 

I re-installed the adjustable gas block and from the closed position found the sweet spot at 1.25 turns out. It worked instantly, and ejected the brass about 6-8' consistently.

 

FWIW, I just received another Faxon barrel and the gas hole on it was about .047 diameter. Why the other one was so much larger, I do not know. Maybe they figured it out and changed it.

 

Whoah! 

 

First, our apologies for not keeping up with this forum. We need to work on that...

 

Second, that sounds highly unusual gas port diameter. I know we use a .094 bit in that drilling operation, so something must be off. If you have not contact us, please do so and we will get you squared away!

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The problem was two-fold: The spinco double extractor spring was far too soft. I installed one extractor buffer under the inner spring and installed two o-rings over the outer extractor spring to get the proper tension on the extractor.

 

I re-installed the adjustable gas block and from the closed position found the sweet spot at 1.25 turns out. It worked instantly, and ejected the brass about 6-8' consistently.

 

FWIW, I just received another Faxon barrel and the gas hole on it was about .047 diameter. Why the other one was so much larger, I do not know. Maybe they figured it out and changed it.

 You weren't by chance using a #47 drill bit to measure the gas port were you?  A #47 drill bit measures 0.785 inches. My DPMS LR308 16 " barrel measures .076 inches = to a #48 drill bit.

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