New to Armalite, pros/cons to swapping barrels?

[WMTX91]

I just ordered an Armalite Def-10, it's my first "true" AR-10, and I guess that's pushing it with the P-mags, but I do have an LMT MWS so I do have some light experience with .308 ARs.

From what I've read, I understand that the Armalite receiver will take a DPMS pattern barrel if you use a compatible DPMS bolt, is this true and are there any cavets to this?
From what searching I've done, very few companies produce AR-10 compatible barrels, most do the LR-308 pattern. So my options using factory-specific parts seem relatively limited without going completely custom.

I want to free float a barrel, and I'd prefer to have a heavy contour or bull barrel around 18", it's just the build I want to do, I'm not trying to argue the quality of the Armalite factory barrel or anything, it's just something I've wanted to try and I didn't feel it would be any cheaper to build it from the ground up since I prefer to stick with nicer quality parts.

I'm thinking about one of two things, one would be to get a Noveske heavy barrel and having it installed, the second thing would be to get a criterion bull barrel, chop it and add an LMT .308 bolt (partially so I could have a spare for my MWS too).
I'm not stuck on the noveske barrel but I really can't find much else that will essentially plug and play, please let me know if I've blatantly overlooked something. I would have got one of the Armalite bull barrles but they don't seem to offer them on their website any more and I don't see any in stock where I have looked.

So after all that, is there really any pros or cons to going with the AR-10 or LR-308 pattern in my situation? I'm not going to have parts commonality (other than magazines) with the LMT either way, which for now, is the only other .308 AR I own.

[GRA]

Please let me know what you think of the DEF-10 once it comes in and you fire it.  I've had my eye on the same thing for a while now.  They are indeed a tempting purchase.

[Sisco]

Shoot it before you decide you want a new barrel. Armalite barrels are pretty damn good.

[GRA]

Shoot it before you decide you want a new barrel. Armalite barrels are pretty damn good.

 

I'm curious as to why they typically use an 1-11.5" twist when everybody else uses the 1-10" twist?

[WMTX91]

Shoot it before you decide you want a new barrel. Armalite barrels are pretty damn good.

 

Like I said, it's not a matter of doubting their quality or accuracy, or even fan-boying out to another manufacturer, I just want to have a gun built a certain way. I'm lucky enough to have a job that allows me spare money to play with on the side.

 

 

I'm curious as to why they typically use an 1-11.5" twist when everybody else uses the 1-10" twist?

 

I find that a little funny too, because to be honest (in my experience as a firearm salesman) a lot of people who buy the "cheaper" .308s tend to buy the cheaper ammunition (147-150gr) too instead of the 168 or 175 grain match bullets that a 1-11.25" twist barrel is suited to. If it was one of their higher end models like the (t) or SASS, I could understand it more.

I do think it's cool of Armalite to offer it, maybe allowing people who don't have 2-3k laying around for a high end build to have an edge with match grade bullet selection and be able to afford the ammunition after buying the gun. :D

I've noticed several people saying that the Larue OBR and LWRC REPR have 1-11.25" twist rates, but a search on their websites reveals they use 1-10" (maybe it's a service you can request). The only other manufactuerer that I know of off the top of my head who offers 1-11.25" is LMT with their stainless steel barrels.

Edited June 14, 2015 by WMTX91

[GRA]

Good reasoning and very logical.  <thumbsup>

 

I checked out a DEF-10 yesterday here locally.  I like the way Armalite designed certain aspects of the rifle.  The one for sale here locally was priced a little high compared to others so I passed on it.  Another vendor here locally was not as high but still higher than others I have seen.  I'm going to ponder it a bit and see what happens since I'm about 95% done with a Spikes .308 build anyway.  I'm still considering another longer barrel than what I am about to put together.

 

We're supposed to have a tax-free weekend coming up in August.  If I get the rifle before then it will afford me a couple of paydays to save for a bigger ammo purchase.   :))

 

Again, please let us know what you think of it once you get it in and fire it.  I'd like to know if you got as much rifle-per-dollar for what you spent.  To me that is of major importance.

[FaRKle!]

Rainier Arms' .308 barrels are available in AR-10 pattern as well.

You should be able to drop in an LR308 pattern barrel just fine. You'll need the LR308 bolt and firing pin though (AR-10 firing pin is tapered and won't protrude through the firing pin hole enough).

[edgecrusher]

The OBR used to come with a 1:11.25, that's what mine is

[WMTX91]

Wow, that's kind of sad that I missed those on Rainier, since that's where I was looking at the Noveske. The 18" match barrel they offer is probably perfect for my needs and honestly the ultramatch would be wasted on me.. however I do see that the 20 and 24" barrels offer rifle length gas systems which I prefer, so I might have to get one of those and have it chopped.

GRA I'll update here on my impressions of the DEF-10, I expect it will exceed my expectations but I usually keep mine pretty low. Less disappointment in life that way.

[GRA]

GRA I'll update here on my impressions of the DEF-10, I expect it will exceed my expectations but I usually keep mine pretty low. Less disappointment in life that way.

 

I couldn't agree more.  Just an idea I had, I looked at buying the DEF-10 as-is then buying the Armalite 20" barrel (or longer) and installing an A2 front sight gas block then selling the 16" barrel assembly.  I'd love to have a traditional 20" barrel AR-10.

 

I've tried to find an Armalite builder's set for a while now to build exactly what I wanted but the best Armalite vendor here locally hasn't been able to get one in since late July of last year.   :-[

 

I guess we have the same ambitions and the unique parts problems to go along with our ambitions.   <dontknow>

[WMTX91]

Strange you mention that, I was always interested in the older Armalites that had the rifle length hand guards on the 20" barrels with the A2 front sight, though I think they used their midlength gas tube on it, never got to handle one so I'm not sure. It was the magazines and the fact that it was an AR-style gun that kept me from buying one. By the time I got over the latter fact, and that Armalite started offering Sr-25 compatible lowers, they had already stopped offering that particular model, though I suppose you could get close by using a railed gas block and a fixed front sight that mounts on a rail.

Edited June 14, 2015 by WMTX91

[GRA]

By the time I got over the latter fact, and that Armalite started offering Sr-25 compatible lowers, they had already stopped offering that particular model

 

Exactly, same issue here except I just always put the .308 AR-10 off.  Didn't look in to them much until here lately.  What I have pictured in the AR-10 with the A2 front sight gas block and carry handle rear with a 20" barrel and green furniture that takes the PMAGS.  Some aren't in to that anymore but that's what I want to build.

 

If they would simply offer the builder's set I could order the other parts and be all set but that doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.

[WMTX91]

Little update,
My order got delayed by "severe weather conditions" and the UPS tracking left me in limbo since it deparetd on the 16th and stopped updating on the 19th. I'm really hopeful it'll show up on Monday since I have two more guns waiting to be picked up and it'd be nice to get them all at once..

I'm still throwing it back and forth on what I want to do with the armalite.. I really want to do the 18" bull barrel with rifle gas system and a free float but I also like the idea of having a lightweight 16", so I might just slap a rail on it and call it a day. I can't really use the "niche" system to decide because I already have guns that fill each of those roles much better.. the LMT MWS with the 20" and the Scar-17, respectively.
 

[GRA]

Sorry to hear about the delay.  If the shipping was routed thru the southern Golf Coast state(s) then this is understandable.  We've still got rivers flooding here in our area.  All of them are up high as ever.

 

Hope it gets in soon.  I know the anticipation sometimes is hard to bear.

[WMTX91]

I recieved my firearms today. I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet, but I am impressed with the overall quality and finish of the Armalite Def-10. What throws me off is that the lower is labeled "SPR Mod 2A" and there no reference to this number anywhere else on the website I ordered it from or on the receipt or packaging. That being said, I am sure that it's the Def-10 I ordered, and while it's most likely not an issue it's just strange to me.

 

As I said the fit and finish is good, the design is typical Ar-10, so things are pretty streamlined when compared to my LMT MWS (my only other .308 AR), so the weight is definitely down. I don't see anywhere in particular where corners were cut or anything like that, everything is there such as the removable finger guard, and it does come with a dust cover and standard forward assist (not the wonky DPMS style). The gas key is staked properly, it has M4 feed ramps and I can actually remove the takedown pins with my fingers instead of a punch and a hammer.

Both Pmags and Lancer magazines insert and fit fine, lock the bolt open, and drop free.

The trigger is somewhere between rubbing two pieces of sandpaper together and the stock Scar-17 trigger.. so I'll probably be upgrading it in the future, for now I'll just try dropping it a few hundred times.

The castle nut does NOT come staked, which is preferable to me since I'm going to be putting an A2 on the gun soon enough as it is.

The only changes I've made to it out of the box so far are swapping the charging handle for the one that came with my LMT after I swapped that one. The only reason I changed them is because the LMT handle has a little more surface are compared to the stock Armalite. I also put an Ergo Grip on it just because I prefer them.

My only real complaint is the handguard situation, the factory ones are pretty loose and wobbly, but that will change before too long so in my case it's a non-issue.

Edited June 22, 2015 by WMTX91

[WMTX91]

So I just went out and put 20 rounds through the Def-10 and all I can really say is wow, hold on tight. I was completely floored by the amount of recoil that has while shooting 150gr factory rounds. I'm not really a recoil-sensitive guy, and I own most forms of .308 (M1A, FAL, G3/PTR), not to mention I shoot a lot of .45-70 up to level II, but when the recoil of this gun causes the collapsible stock to collapse during shooting half the time I think that says something.
If nothing else, this has assured me that I will be swapping to a 24" bull barrel with a rifle gas system and putting a Slash heavy buffer in this thing, pronto.
I put 10 rounds through a Pmag and 10 through a Lancer, both functioned flawlessly.

Also, the barrel comes marked "7.62 Nato CR-MO CL 1:11.25" I mention that because some people were arguing on another forum about how the rifles were going to come, but the Armalite website is accurate.

[GRA]

I've been impressed with the ArmaLites that I've checked out so far and I was sure that you would be when you got yours ... CONGRATS on your new purchase.   <thumbsup>  <thumbsup>   <thumbsup>

 

I've checked out about 3 DEF-10 models here in the last 30 days and all of them were new and had somewhat loose hand guards as you described.  I definitely noticed that so it must be something regular from the factory.  

 

I did also notice the take-down pins were a little more user-friendly.

 

What sights did you decide to use, but the way?

 

As for recoil, I have nothing to compare it to other than an AR15 in 5.5.6 and in 7.62x39 since I have never fired a .308 on the AR platform.  I'm anticipating a bit more punch than the 7.52x39 I have.  I agree, if I was to get one I think I would go ahead with an A2 stock if I encountered that type of recoil.

 

I've also fired the 45-70 guvmint round and it reminded me of my muzzleloader.  This recoil as I recall was a bit more than the AR 7.62x39 of mine.

 

The last DEF-10 I checked out also had the "SPR Mod 2A" on the receiver. and NOT the DEF-10 model designation.  The vendor checked this out and came out of his office and said, "You're right, it's a model DEF-10".  So I'd say this is some sort of number unique to ArmaLite.

 

As for the barrel markings, I don't think you'll have any problems firing either 7.62 NATO, and/or .308 rounds.  ArmaLite's website claims their barrels are good for both.

 

From what I recall of the factory single-stage trigger it seemed average compared to factory mil-spec AR15 triggers.  That's the good thing about buying the base model; when you have a strong aftermarket to can choose your preferred trigger without having spent the extra bucks on what somebody likes as a custom trigger.

 

Good job.   Keep us informed on the accuracy.   <thumbsup>

[FaRKle!]

I can actually remove the takedown pins with my fingers instead of a punch and a hammer.

 

Wow, your MWS is that difficult with the pins?

 

 

So I just went out and put 20 rounds through the Def-10 and all I can really say is wow, hold on tight. I was completely floored by the amount of recoil that has while shooting 150gr factory rounds. I'm not really a recoil-sensitive guy, and I own most forms of .308 (M1A, FAL, G3/PTR), not to mention I shoot a lot of .45-70 up to level II, but when the recoil of this gun causes the collapsible stock to collapse during shooting half the time I think that says something.

If nothing else, this has assured me that I will be swapping to a 24" bull barrel with a rifle gas system and putting a Slash heavy buffer in this thing, pronto.

 

 

Did it come with the H3 buffer? If so getting a PWS H4 is another option to Slash's HSS.

[WMTX91]

What sights did you decide to use, but the way?

 

From what I recall of the factory single-stage trigger it seemed average compared to factory mil-spec AR15 triggers.  That's the good thing about buying the base model; when you have a strong aftermarket to can choose your preferred trigger without having spent the extra bucks on what somebody likes as a custom trigger.

 

I had a set of ARMS flip ups that I threw on there to test, I probably won't use Iron sights in the long run, I might use this gun as an excuse to try out Vortex, if not I'll just go with the old standby, Leupold. While I wasn't shooting for accuracy, I can say the bullet did seem to be hitting the same general area pretty well, but I was just shooting into a berm, not at anything,

I took my lower with me to work and installed my old LMT two stage trigger (after I replaced it with a Gisessle on the original) while I was on break. Huge improvement, while I like a good single stage trigger, it's hard to beat a nice two stage for precision work.

 

 

Wow, your MWS is that difficult with the pins?

 

 

 

 

Did it come with the H3 buffer? If so getting a PWS H4 is another option to Slash's HSS.

It's not really that bad, I was really more just commenting on how easy the Armalite is, the LMT does require me to use a bullet to remove the rear pin though.

Yes it has the H3 buffer, and did I read that right, the H4 is 1lb? It'd be something to consider if I was going to keep the carbine buffer tube.

[FaRKle!]

It's not really that bad, I was really more just commenting on how easy the Armalite is, the LMT does require me to use a bullet to remove the rear pin though.

Yes it has the H3 buffer, and did I read that right, the H4 is 1lb? It'd be something to consider if I was going to keep the carbine buffer tube.

Hrm, my MWS' pins work just fine with finger pressure on both of my upper chassis.

The PWS H4 is 6.9oz. I don't know why their website says 1lb (unless that's just shipping weight).

[hogwylde]

I got my DEF-10 last October.  The receiver is marked "Armalite AR-10A" and the serial number.  It has the Armalite logo, but nothing else and nothing to indicate that it's the DEF-10 model.

Edited July 9, 2015 by hogwylde

[Robocop1051]

The biggest con to swapping an Armalite barrel is finding out the new barrel is no better than the original... and now you're $250 poorer.