bfoosh006 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 129rds tested so far... As always... YMMV... so please view my carbines data as just my results... the same barrel, under the same conditions, so as to eliminate variables, .... your carbine might be faster or slower slightly. I want to make sure everyone realizes my results are from a Colt Pattern Carbine, with a mag block insert..... any feeding issues might not happen in a Glock Pattern, or a designed from the ground up 9x19 carbine ( Beretta, Sig .. etc.. ) So take the feeding issues with a grain of salt. I realize most people are not really concerned with the velocity of various 9x19 rounds... but ...My goal was to see what will run in my carbine, what the velocities were , and "guesstimating" what the added velocity would do to the various JHP, Bonded HP's, Copper HP's etc.... ( You have to start somewhere... ) A good example would be the Fed. XM9001.... that older design bullet already penetrates to a shallow depth.. and the added velocity will probably make its penetration depth less... kinda acting like a "varmint" 9mm round. I also know there are various other sites with very helpful info ( BBTI ) ... but, some of their data is kind of dated, and does not include the newest rounds. Weather.....68 degrees, slightly overcast, chronograph was 12 feet from the muzzle. 18rds of each 9x19 ammo was chronographed... The reason being, I am going to later conduct a 32rd mag test concerning reliability / feeding and accuracy test... I will include the FTF and FTE , etc from this round of testing. My "standard" for velocity checks, is GECO Swiss 124gr... I have found it to be very consistent and accurate... so I used it every hour to spot check velocity. Just to make sure the sun or "murphy's law " wasn't skewing chronograph results. Rifle info.... PSA 16" 9MM Colt Pattern Hybrid, 1n10 twist, Lantac Muzzle Brake, ALG ACT trigger with JP Springs, 6.75oz Buffer, Tubbs .308 variable power spring. Competition Electronics ProChrono Pal Chronograph was used.... General observations... Not all 9mm is created equal... I observed numerous nasty bullet setbacks.. Photos will follow later... but it was obvious some brands use better QC and neck tensions / crimp pressure.... ( Remember YMMV ) Only one 9mm OEM round would not cycle consistently, it should be noted that every other FMJ bullet fed perfectly in my carbine, but not the MaxxTech 115gr FMJ ... and it was VERY low velocity as well ( compared to same weight ammo ) perhaps the low velocity contributed to the feed issues..... While some of the ammo was expensive, those same rounds were very impressive in function.. I have to say Buffalo Bore ammo was 100% reliable....even while using the same bullet ( Barnes X bullet ) that other manufacturers rounds had trouble with. I expected some JHP's to choke while feeding, simply because of the HP's profile and the less then perfect feed ramps of a Colt pattern carbine.... and some did.... consistently across the weights. That is NOT to say it is bad ammo... just not a good choice in my AR15 Colt pattern 9MM... that same ammo might feed perfectly in a Sig MPX... Or a Glock Pattern AR....or such. As we all know... a blowback 9mm carbine can get filthy quickly, and some ammo burns very clean... while some burns filthy. If you are running a suppressor..... I strongly suggest you use the cleanest burning, fully coated / "sealed" bullet.... I was just starting to have issues with chambering at the end of the day.. from the gunk that had accumulated. There was no noticeable effect on velocities... just function got sluggish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 115gr and below... Polycase, 65gr Interceptor............................1940fps, smelled like burning plastic slightly Polycase, 65gr Interceptor RNP.....................1844fps, smelled like burning plastic slightly Ruger, +P 80gr ARX.....................................1689fps, very ES 12, smelled like burning plastic slightly LeHigh Defense, +P 90gr Extreme Defense... 1773fps, no issues. Winc. 90gr Zinc Core "Super Clean"...............1548fps, UNBelivably clean burning inside and out. Buffalo Bore, +P+ 95gr Barnes TAC-XP..........1880fps, very consistent, Low ES Magtech, 95gr JSP........................................1694fps Fiocchi, 100gr Frangible................................1568fps Hornady, 100gr Lite, Flextip..........................1326fps, 2 bullet setbacks Aguila, 115gr FMJ.......................................1360fps, low ES Aguila, +P 115gr FMJ..................................1418fps Aguila, 117gr JHP.......................................1282fps Armscor, 115gr FMJ....................................1200fps, very smooth shooting. Atlanta Arms, 115gr FMJ, AMU load.............1388fps, VERY accurate Barnes, +P 115gr XTAC...............................1303fps ...4 FTF BlazerBrass, 115gr FMJ................................1335fps Brown Bear, 115gr FMJ ..............................1398fps... the gunky chamber didn't like the Lacquered case Browning, 115gr FMJ...................................1392 Buffalo Bore, +P+ 115gr Barnes TAC-XP .....1505fps, very low ES, so much so that it was noticeable , very consistent feeling. Colt SCHP, 115gr Solid Copper HP...............1360fps.... dismal feeding.. 8 FTF... no setback though Estate, 115gr FMJ......................................1310fps Federal, 115gr FMJ Aluminum cased, .........1326fps... 4 NASTY bullet setbacks resulting in FTF Federal 115gr SynTech...............................1362fps....3 FTF... found a chunk of the "Poly" jacket in the rifle cleanup Federal, +P+ 115gr JHP 9BPLE...................1640fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr JHP, XM9001.......................1532fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr JHP 9BP..............................1363fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr FMJ AE................................1324fps Federal, 115gr FMJ "Champion"..................1340fps, oddly, softer recoil then the above AE Fiocchi, 115gr HP.......................................1458fps Fiocchi, 115gr FMJ......................................1316fps, large ES 88 Herters, 115gr "Total Nylon Jacket".............1340fps, large ES 88 Hornady, 115gr C. Defense FTX...................1340fps HotShot, 115gr FMJ....................................1372fps GECO, 115gr FMJ, German made................1334fps IMI, 115gr FMJ..........................................1427fps, very low ES, clean IMI 115gr Di-Cut........................................1352fps Independence, 115gr FMJ, Brass.................1305fps... 60 ES Magtech, 115gr FMJ..................................1371fps Magtech, +P+ 115gr JHP...........................1640fps, very fast 115gr MaxxTech, 115gr FMJ................................1198fps, for a FMJ bullet..numerous FTF, underpowered part of the issue ? Nosler, 115gr JHP, "Match"........................1464fps, very low ES 12 PMC, 115gr FMJ........................................1287fps PPU, 115gr FMJ.........................................1363fps, NASTY setback in 9rds ( worst of all the setbacks ) This is the ammo that made me realize "not all ammo is equal" PPU, 115gr FMJ NATO................................1448fps Sellier & Bellot, 115gr FMJ.........................1340, large ES 102, smelled odd ?! Sellier & Bellot, 115gr JHP.........................1370fps.... 5 FTF, 2 with setback Sig Sauer, 115gr FMJ.................................1498fps Sig Sauer, 115gr JHP V-Crown....................1462fps... NASTY setback... AGAIN, setback in my Carbine YMMV !!! Silver Bear, 115gr FMJ ..............................1525fps Silver Bear, 115gr FMJ ..............................................................................................................testing again, curiosity Speer, 115gr GD.........................................1525fps, ordered another box.. surprisingly fast. Speer, 115gr TMJ.......................................1396fps Speer, +P 115gr TMJ..................................1382fps Speer, +P+ 115gr GD.................................1596fps, given the "standard" pressure loads velocity, I was surprised this wasn't faster. Tula, 115gr FMJ.......................................... Winc., 115gr FMJ.......................................1370fps Winc., 115gr FMJ "Forged".........................1336fps, large ES 90 Wolf, 115gr FMJ Military Classic..................1352fps Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance...............1530fps... 1st lot #,... tested twice because of the high velocities Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance...............1410fps... 2nd different lot #,... also tested twice because of the very different lots. Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance........................................................................................................................................ Yavex ( Turkish ) 115gr FMJ................................................................................................................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 124gr Aguila, 124gr FMJ.................................1280fps Armscor, 124gr FMJ...............................1234fps Armscor, 124gr JHP...............................1208fps Atomic, +P 124gr JHP, Match................1565fps Buffalo Bore, +P 124gr JHP...................1470fps CCI, 124gr Blazer Brass FMJ........................................................................................................................................ Colt 124gr JHP, by Double Tap..............1332fps , 3 FTF , 3 setback of the setbacks single loaded and fired.. 1419fps Colt NM 124gr FMJ................................1280fps Federal, 124gr HST...................................1335fps.. oddly a little smokey Federal, +P 124gr HST..............................1422fps Federal,124gr FMJ AE................................1287fps Federal, 124gr "Suppressor".......................1145fps Fiocchi, 124gr JHP.....................................1377fps Fiocchi, 124gr Truncated Cone...................1292fps HotShot 124gr FMJ....................................1210fps, dirty-smoky Hornady, 125gr FMJ, Steel Match...............1258fps Hornady, +P 124gr TAP FPD.....................1378fps, 2 FTF, no bullet setback Hornady, +P 124gr XTP Amer. Gunner.......1382fps GECO, 124gr FMJ Hungarian.....................1242fps GECO, 124gr Copper Clad Steel Jacket, Swiss.... 1248fps... 8 ES Independence, 124gr FMJ.......................1340fps, High ES 90 IMI 124gr FMJ........................................1325fps Magtech, 124gr Bonded JHP...................1392fps MagTech, 124gr FMJ..............................1328, very Low ES MEN 124gr FMJ.....................................1310fps PMC 124gr Starfire.................................1235fps, Honestly , I thought this would not feed... but it was perfect... soft shooting. PMC, 124gr FMJ ....................................1195fps Remington, +P 124gr BlackBelt GS........1398fps... 1 FTF, no setback Remington, +P 124gr GS.......................1395fps... Perfect S & B, 124gr FMJ, Gov. Contract RUAG...1201fps Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ...................1280fps Sellier & Belliot, 124gr Soft Point...........1290fps Sig Sauer, 124gr JHP V-Crown..............1430fps... nasty setback 5rds.. 5FTF.. didn't like my Colt pattern feed lips. Sig Sauer, 124gr FMJ............................1490fps, Low ES, 12 Speer +P 124gr GD..............................1458fps Speer 124gr GD...................................1376fps Speer 124gr TMJ .................................1304fps Winchester 124gr FMJ NATO................1340fps ZVS 124gr FMJ....................................1215fps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 135gr, 147gr, and 158gr Federal, +P 135gr Tactical Bonded HP......1345fps.... Hornady, 135gr Critical Duty Flexlock......1130fps, very low ES 14 Hornady, +P 135gr Critical Duty, Flex. ....1225fps.. ES 18 Aguila, 147gr FMJ, FP..............................1140fps Armscor, 147gr FMJ................................1078fps Atlanta Arms, 147gr JHP "Major".............1348fps.. probably uses VV3N38, so this should be fast, and it was. AYSM, 147gr "Match"..............................998fps.... Browning, 147gr X Point.........................1122fps... 2 FTF... no bullet setback Browning, 147gr FMJ..............................1168fps... smooth as a sewing machine...and clean burning Federal, +P 147gr HST..........................1182fps Federal, 147gr HST.................................1124fps Federal, 147gr JHP "9MS".......................1132fps Federal, 147gr FMJ "AE".........................1084fps Fiocchi, 147gr FMJ..................................1078fps Magtech, 147gr JHP...............................1195fps... High ES 98 Magtech, 147gr FMJ...............................1090fps PPU, 147gr JHP........................................................................................................................................................... Remington, 147gr FMJ............................1144fps.... slightly odd bullet profile, but no issues. Sig Sauer, 147gr FMJ..............................1248fps Sig Sauer, 147gr V-Crown.......................1165fps, 11rds FTF, nasty bullet setback... I am confident the V-Crown ( Sierra ) bullet is a GREAT design... but it just didn't feed in my carbine. Silver Bear, 145gr JHP............................1052fps, 3 FTF.. no bullet setback Speer 147gr GD ( 1st Gen ).....................1184fps... 5 FTF... no bullet setback... Speer, 147gr TMJ....................................1182fps Winc. 147gr FMJ Train & Defend..............1107fps.... very accurate, very clean burning, and very smooth running... My favorite 147gr carbine ammo. Hands down. Winc. 147gr Bonded JHP ........................1167fps Winc. 147gr FMJ, White Box.....................1098fps Winc. 147gr, JHP, White Box....................1146fps Wolf, 147gr JHP, "Gold"...........................970-1109.... huge ES, throughout the string Fed. 150gr HST Micro..............................952fps, perfect feeding.... could this be a perfect subsonic HST ? Fiocchi, 158gr FMJ..................................947fps IMI, 158gr FMJ.......................................1018fps.... low ES 16 PPU, 158gr FMJ......................................1005fps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Interesting, but not surprised. I've done stuff with my AR45 that blows my mind. Center-mass hits at 200 yards on steel, point-of-aim, with a damn .45ACP round. All because of the 16" barrel. That would never happen from a pistol with a 5" barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 I know nothing about the 9mm AR , but is there a reason a 308 Buffer spring is being used ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, survivalshop said: I know nothing about the 9mm AR , but is there a reason a 308 Buffer spring is being used ? "Bark and Blast" can be quite a bit in a Blowback 9MM... so the heavier spring helps "delay" the BCG cyclic action by milliseconds... and that cuts down on the "BaB" quite a bit. As well as keeping the action cleaner. The OEM buffer spring and buffer was cycling very fast, enough that it felt like it was gonna pound the buffer tube "apart"..changing over to the .308 Tubbs spring and a 7.5oz buffer makes the carbine much "softer" shooting. To heavy of a buffer and spring combo will result in "muzzle dip" and possible bolt bounce ( the heavy recoiling buffer and BCG will bounce off the receiver face, just like a steel hammer off an anvil ) ... so for most all Colt pattern and AR based 9x19's ( Glock pattern ) you will need to finesse the spring rates and buffer weight. The 9MM AR was an "after thought" adaptation design as opposed to a ground up build like a SIG or Beretta 9MM. Everyone that has fired my Colt Pattern 9MM loves it, it took quite a few spring and buffer weight combos to get to a pleasant shooting carbine. I will add... 125yd shots are VERY easy to shoot accurately with even just a 3 MOA Red Dot.... it is much quieter then a 5.56 16" and is very lite recoiling. And I can use it at the local "Action Range" so it makes for great manual of arms training. All and all.. it is a very fun carbine to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Interesting! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Interesting you can use a 308 AR spring , If its a Tubb's Flat wire Spring , you cant go wrong by using one or any of his products for that matter .. Tuning the AR with different weight Buffer Springs & Buffers are the way I use to tune them , I have no Arg. Gas Blocks , except for the one that came with the Superlative Arms Piston system , it came with it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 On a side note... when I talked about trying so many different buffer weights and spring weights, I went as high as a 10.0oz solid buffer and a Orange .308 Springco 24.8lb ( opened/locked back ) ... the irony was all that heavy mass and heavy spring power did was move the nasty recoil to the front of the carbines breach ! Lol !! ( strong muzzle dip ) Just goes to show how tolerant the AR 9MM is !! In case some of you guys aren't aware of various spring weights... David Tubbs has that info for us. A2 (old) - 7.6lb closed, 14.5lb open A2 (new) - 9.1lb closed, 16.7lb open Tubb Flatwire - 10.5lb closed, 16.3lb open Tubb .308 Flatwire - 13lb closed, 16.7lb open SpringCo White ? (standard) - 8.3lb closed, 16.3lb open SpringCo Red (extra) - 10.5lb closed, 18.4lb open SpringCo Orange (increased) - 13.9lb closed, 24.8lb open The video is worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fMVZbrnvu8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Damn, that orange really does drive it home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 9 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: Damn, that orange really does drive it home! And boy howdy did it on the Carbine !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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