Reloading for the M14/M1A

[survivalshop]

    I started aThread in the Service Rifle section , but it has a wealth of info in it for the Reloader .

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

[survivalshop]

   I need to find this guys Book .

[Armed Eye Doc]

47 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

   I need to find this guys Book .

It's used, but here is one place.

Handloading for Competition Making the Target Bigger. https://www.amazon.com/dp/096269259X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_YHIAAbVHG4GNM

[survivalshop]

 

3 hours ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

It's used, but here is one place.

Handloading for Competition Making the Target Bigger. https://www.amazon.com/dp/096269259X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_YHIAAbVHG4GNM

  Thanks , I was just looking & found ,

He has a web sight   http://zediker.com has his books & Mr. Tubb's , also other Articles & a lot of books on the AR 15.

[Toolndie7]

Perfect timing SS I was just about to do some research on loading for my m25 ?

[Toolndie7]

@survivalshop and @Sisco 

Ive started sizing cases and doing research on loads for my M25. I started checking available free length until I touch the lands and its almost .100" longer than the 308ar chamber I just played with.  I really don't want to seat a projectile that far out, Or do I? The mag Will dictate my max but  how big of a jump to the lands can I get away with?  What are your opinions and or experiences?    Thanks

[survivalshop]

   As you said , the Magazine will determine if you can extend your COL what a Bolt Gun can be set up for . The good thing is , I think the M14 Mag has a little more room then the 2.800" of an 308AR Mag. , but experimentation will lead you to the best for your particular chamber & Barrel . It will still be close to the 2.8"

    I plan on using IMR 3031 for my 16.5" Socom , its the powder also mentioned in his Article for a Factory Match load , besides IMR 4895 , which I will also try , along with Ramshot , TAC .

  I'm going to use 155 gr. SMK & 168 gr. Match Noslers & Hornady Amax.  I will be shooting Iron sights only & the Socom's are not set up for long range , so it  might be quite the challenge . 

Edited February 6, 2018 by survivalshop

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, Toolndie7 said:

@survivalshop and @Sisco 

Ive started sizing cases and doing research on loads for my M25. I started checking available free length until I touch the lands and its almost .100" longer than the 308ar chamber I just played with.  I really don't want to seat a projectile that far out, Or do I? The mag Will dictate my max but  how big of a jump to the lands can I get away with?  What are your opinions and or experiences?    Thanks

SS is far more knowledgeable on that then I am. As I shoot my loads through three different rifles, I pretty much stay at 2.80. My Armalite Gen 2 mags are derivatives of the M14 mag.

[survivalshop]

 First loads produced for the Socom , 40.0 gr. IMR 3031 , 155 gr. SMK & WW Primer , COL 2.797" I was a little disappointed with he Run out , Case Neck was 0.002" but the Bullet was almost 0.003" , I've been getting as little as 0.001" run out with the Forster Match Seating Dies , this brass was once fired LC & was just Annealed . Could be because it wasn't fired in a good Chamber , its was probably shot out of a Belt fed , might get better shot & formed in a good Chamber.

  The back row of test rounds are some BHA Match brass once fired , issue with it was , I sized in the same Die as the LC brass & it was my Redding Bushing Sizer Die , I need to change to a different Bushing to size the thinner Brass smaller , I have the Bushings , the Bullet could be pushed in , not good for Neck tension . I have to resize them , after I do another lot of LC & change the Bushing .

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by survivalshop

[survivalshop]

    I had some short LC brass ( 2.001- 2.003" ) that were not to my 2.005" min. spec I use & I sized them with my old SB RCBS sizing Die & brought most of them to 2.0055" & had to trim three of them . These were Sized with my Redding FL Die after firing , so I have to keep Sizing them with my SB Die from now on . Loaded them with same charge of 39.5 gr. of IMR 3031.

    I took the BHA Match brass & changed the Neck Bushing in my Redding Bushing Sizing Die & Resized them , had two use a .329 Bushing to get the Neck tension I wanted using the expander in the Die  ( for comparison , I use a .336 for LC Brass ). I could have just Resized with out the Expander , but I like to use it to make sure the inside of the Neck uniform . I loaded these cases with 40.0 gr. of IMR 3031 Power .

   One thing I did notice was on the RCBS SB Sized brass , the run out on the Bullet was almost three times the amount of the FL Redding Bushing Die . Total was 0.009-10 " , all Bullets were seated with my Forster Match Seating Die . I think this may tell me my RCBS SB die , being over thirty years old , may be out of spec's , it had a lot of work over the years & I see a replacement & retirement soon , probably will not use it again .

  Its amazing what you find out with Tools , just cant have enough of them . Its all interesting when using Commercial Brass & LC the difference in case volume as seen when you compare them side by side with Powder in them . I have a photo of side by side with a LC case & the BHA Match case filled , actually the LC case case 39.5 grs. & the BHA has 40.0 grs. of IMR3031 & you can see its obvious . The LC Brass weighs in on avg. of 180 grs. & the BHS Match Brass avg. 160 grs.

  I'll post them after I upload them on this PC .

 

  You can see the difference in Powder loads in a Commercial case on the right & LC on the left & the Commercial has 0.05 grs. more Powder 

  Hears a good reason for having a Forester Match Seating Die , others have copied this in one form or another . The Bullet doesn't need to be totally straight , the alignment sleeve will align it before it starts to seat the Bullet .

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by survivalshop

[Toolndie7]

I just dumped some powder charges last night starting at 38gr and working up to 42 gr of varget to test out this weekend. I recently sliced a LC case down the middle the other day. I want to do it to a commercial case to have a side by side comparison.

[survivalshop]

  Nice job , nice clean cut .

[Sisco]

4 hours ago, Toolndie7 said:

I just dumped some powder charges last night starting at 38gr and working up to 42 gr of varget to test out this weekend. I recently sliced a LC case down the middle the other day. I want to do it to a commercial case to have a side by side comparison.

 

Guessing you might find the 38 gr. Loads Might not fully cycle the action. I had 38.5 gr RL15 loads that had a problem with that on my AR10’s.

[Toolndie7]

46 minutes ago, Sisco said:

Guessing you might find the 38 gr. Loads Might not fully cycle the action. I had 38.5 gr RL15 loads that had a problem with that on my AR10’s.

I was thinking that myself. I figured  between being a nato case and a slower burning powder, not to mention probably my favorite rifle.  I would chicken out and start small and see how she reacts. 

[survivalshop]

 Maybe this will help from M14 forum

I will list the load data from the fastest powder too the slowest burning. I will tell you what has worked Ok, and what was Super in my rifles but ultimately your rifle will tell you what it likes the best. 

IMR-3031.
125 Speer TnT @ 39.5grs COAL 2.70 it was Ok, but not spectacular.

168 HPBT @ 39.5grs COAL 2.80-2.82 This was the original Federal Match load. Shoots well in most rifles but 3031 isn't all that temp stable. If your on the firing line keep ammo out of direct sun light. 

IMR XBR 8208.
Some guy's swear by it, It didn't work well for me in my rifles at any bullet weight. The Wife's AR/15 loves the stuff with any projo on top.

Update last summer: I have revisited this powder with the 135SMK, 42.0grs in a LC case, WLR primer COAL 2.75/2.77 works very, very well in both my M1a and 7.62mm M1. Neither rifle liked any load over 42.0grs  

IMR/H-4895
125 Speer TnT @ 41.5grs COAL 2.70 My rifles love this load as long as the distance is inside 200yds. Recoil is Ar-15 like level. If you can hold hard enough they will hold the 10-ring pretty easy.
135 SMK IMR-4895 43.5grs / H-4895 43.0grs COAL 2.75-2.77 this is a 300yd rapid X-ring killer my rifles love this load. Recoils like a Ar-15 plenty of time too clean up the sight picture.
155 Berger Hybrid IMR-4895 @ 43.5grs / H-4895 43.0 COAL 2.80 My 7.62mm M1 Garand is just laying it down and killing it with this load combo.
168 HPBT @ 41.5grs COAL 2.80-2.82 This my default loading with this powder, my rifles love this load combo its a well known much loved Match accuracy loading. If your rifle doesn't shoot it well you have a sick rifle or you plain SUX at shooting.

**** You will notice two different load levels with the 135SMK and the 155Berger Hy-brid.
IMR typically needs a little more powder too make the same amount of pressure that the H does. IMR/H-4895 are not the same powder there very close the loads listed are mild for there pressure so the load data overlaps a bit. Too give a example, 41.5grs the IMR will push the same weight bullet a little slower than H will. The IMR gets a weee little bump too help it along. With the 125's and the 168's sharing the same load data IMR/H, I don't bother adjusting the load. There close enough to each other for me too live with so I load and go. 

VihtaVuori N135.
With any VV powder there pricey and sometimes availability is also a issue. I treat this powder no different than IMR-4895 same load data grn for grn. It is super clean! I didn't see any difference in accuracy between the two powders in my M1A so I went back too what was the cheaper powder. I have run a few 135SMK rounds down range with my 7.62 M1 all I can say is Holy Smokes...... 

IMR-4064.
168 HPBT @ 42.0grs @ 2.80-2.82 COAL Good solid load
175 HPBT @ 42.0grs @ 2.82-2.83 COAL Another well known Match accuracy loading. Many shooters have legged out using it, is a clone load of the old M118NM ammo or the current M118LR load. This is my default loading with this powder and these weight bullets. As you know IMR-4064 meter's like Lincoln Logs. 

Varget. 

168 HPBT @ 41.0grs 2.80-2.82 COAL Sweet load!
175 HPBT @ 41.5grs 2.82-2.83 COAL Another sweet load, some say Varget is too slow too be safe in the M1A. I say BS its much closer too IMR-4064 than many are ever going too admit, and its cut shorter so its easier too meter than IMR-4064 is. 

Enjoy the load data, Phil.

 

[Toolndie7]

Thanks SS, I've been spending a lot of time over there reading.  So much info I think I'm going cross eyed. 

[Toolndie7]

Just ran those loads this morning. 38gr cycled the action fine but was definitely weak, Standard deviation seems to point to 40.5 to 41 grains which gave me an average of 2530fps with a 168gr hpbt .  Ran up to 42.5 grains of varget which pushed a 168gr up to an average of 2621fps. 

[mineralman55]

There are a lot of people who would disagree with Varget being too slow for the 308/7.62, myself included. Not my favorite for loading these, but it is still a good one.

AA2520 and Match Rifle (possibly the same powder formulation) are considered the ball equivalent of Varget, and some of the best accuracy I've ever had came from these two.

[survivalshop]

  I just loaded some with 40.0 grs. of IMR 4895 with a 155 SMK's , but it will be about two weeks before I test them . I have to order some more 168 gr. Bullets  , I do have a shitload of them & 175 gr. loads already loaded , but will have to see what my data is , before I test them in my M1A . None of them have any of the Powders we have listed here , WC 846 , & Tac , probably some IMR 4064 also 

 I can see a full day of testing when I pick this rifle up 

[survivalshop]

 I loaded a couple of these with 39.5 gr. of IMR 4895 , these weigh 170 gr. & I only have about thirty left , they are great shooting Bullets , I had 1K of them a couple years ago .