Pa-10 reliability upgrade help

[MDWeaponry]

So I wanted to get into the .308 world and found a deal that I couldn’t pass up, but after reading these posts I’m thinking I should have. I haven’t shot it yet, but it’s the  gen 2 with 20 inch stainless barrel and free float 15 inch mlok. 

The goal was to build a precision rig through time and upgrades, and to save a bit of money in the process by doing it off of a psa receiver set and I figured the extra parts I pulled off would be decent to have just because. Anyways after noticing the semi sloppy (not horrible but it seems like the upper pivot pin hole is out of spec a bit) upper/lower fit mine has, and all the extraction issues and recoil system issue threads I’ve read, I’m thinking I should have just built it from scratch with all reputable parts. Anyways I’d like to shoot it this weekend but I don’t really want the bcg beating my lower to death, so what should I do as a quick fix to keep that from happening until I can get the proper armalite spring and buffer? 

Thanks in advance 

[jtallen83]

11 minutes ago, MDWeaponry said:

Anyways I’d like to shoot it this weekend but I don’t really want the bcg beating my lower to death, so what should I do as a quick fix to keep that from happening until I can get the proper armalite spring and buffer?

What are you starting with? Give the inside depth of the buffer tube, buffer weight, and spring length with coil count. PSA has used a variety of parts, no real consistency so knowing what you have to start with is a must. That said getting the whole Armalite receiver extension/buffer kit would be a plus. I noticed Armalite raised the price $10 since the last kit I bought, PSA has been good for business!

https://www.armalite.com/product/ar10rekit01-6-position-receiver-extension-kit/

[RedRiverII]

Up $10 for sure,  good info JT.  I bought all the suggested parts and did not change them out.  I'll look at my receiver right now and get back.  My brass ejected at 4:30 6 feet.  Put a bucket where they flew and didn't have to chase the brass as they mostly landed in the bucket.  I should have said PA 10 was used.  The recoil was just shy of a Garand 30 06.  Let me go look now.

[RedRiverII]

OK,  All done just now and only one cup of coffee ingested.  First pic,  not much damage to speak of.  This rifle had a 7" inner length,  not the usual rig from PSA,  must've changed it.  Pic 2 original spring and buffer,  buffer weigh 3.8 oz.  Pic 3 suggested parts by the High Exalted Mystical Rulers of this Realm.  Sprinco orange spring and 5.3 oz buffer.  Mine is 5.2 and it was the best find for me at the time.  I have since purchased more buffers at a lower price to use the bodies with tungsten weights I purchased.  Thank for the question it has made me actually use the purchased products and not just hunt and gather parts.  The info supplied here comes from true gentleman who are die hard believers and masters of this 308 stuff.  Welcome aboard!  BTW,  I'm not one of the masters I am but a squire still.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RedRiverII

[MDWeaponry]

Spring is 11.5 inches long using around 1/8 inch wire with 28 coils counting end to end, buffer is 2.5 inches long. Internal Depth of buffer tube is 7 inches. I don’t have a scale handy to measure the buffer weight

[RedRiverII]

The suggestion for an Armalite kit is terrific.

[MDWeaponry]

4 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

OK,  All done just now and only one cup of coffee ingested.  First pic,  not much damage to speak of.  This rifle had a 7" inner length,  not the usual rig from PSA,  must've changed it.  Pic 2 original spring and buffer,  buffer weigh 3.8 oz.  Pic 3 suggested parts by the High Exalted Mystical Rulers of this Realm.  Sprinco orange spring and 5.3 oz buffer.  Mine is 5.2 and it was the best find for me at the time.  I have since purchased more buffers at a lower price to use the bodies with tungsten weights I purchased.  Thank for the question it has made me actually use the purchased products and not just hunt and gather parts.  The info supplied here comes from true gentleman who are die hard believers and masters of this 308 stuff.  Welcome aboard!  BTW,  I'm not one of the masters I am but a squire still.

That clear ended buffer looks to be the exact same one, and we have the same internal buffer tube depth of 7 inches. Not what I was expecting from other experience. It might be better then they were putting out but it’s certainly not right.

btw, does your upper receiver pivot pin hole seem loose and out of spec? Or is it just me. Pin fits pretty well in the lower by itself.

almost debating on finding a brass tube that fits the pin better and then sanding it down and pressing it into the upper pin hole to act as a shim

[MDWeaponry]

6 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

The suggestion for an Armalite kit is terrific.

That’s my plan, but I know I wouldn’t get it in time to try it out this weekend so I was hoping there’s a quick fix. To keep from damaging the lower at all until I can get one. 

[RedRiverII]

Mine is a little rough as well.  Greased mine up and inserted it over and over.  Any way you get it to fit is fine.  I'd stay away from a Dremel until frustration got the better of me.

[RedRiverII]

Does the pivot pin fit at all?  I'm assuming it does,  then go for it.  Some folks here had a horrible experience with these rifles.  I did not.  My new PA 10 was OK,  I'll tune it up.  The recoil was excessive,  especially for a gas gun.

[MDWeaponry]

1 minute ago, RedRiverII said:

Mine is a little rough as well.  Greased mine up and inserted it over and over.  Any way you get it to fit is fine.  I'd stay away from a Dremel until frustration got the better of me.

I wish that was my issue, but I feel like the upper receiver pin hole is out of spec as in the hole is slightly too large. No dremeling needed, I need to add material back to the pin hole if anything. I would contact palmetto about it, but I’m sure that after a month long wait it would be “in spec” 

i have to actually be careful when closing it to make sure the takedown pin lug centers into the lower otherwise it will hit on the lower receiver side wall when I close it. 

[RedRiverII]

Call PSA and send it back.  It won't be the first call they received.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RedRiverII

[MDWeaponry]

1 minute ago, RedRiverII said:

Call PSA and send it back.  It won't be the first call they received.

I guess I could. I actually purchased the upper and lower separately, as that was my only option as a California resident. I would just hate to send it back and wait forever to have them tell me it’s within spec when I could spend a day reaming the hole out and pressing in a properly fitting brass or aluminum tube for the pin. Ahh well decisions decisions

[RedRiverII]

Same same with the purchase.  Call anyway and see what they say.  I'm sure folks have sent back defective rifles for repairs or replacement after shooting them.  What's their guarantee,  warranty?

[RedRiverII]

Palmetto State Armory Warranty Policy

FULL LIFETIME WARRANTY

Firearms and parts manufactured by Palmetto State Armory are backed by our Full Lifetime Warranty. Our PSA manufactured firearms and parts are warranted to be free from defects in materials and craftsmanship for the serviceable lifetime of the firearm or part. The liability of Palmetto State Armory under this warranty shall be limited solely to the obligation to repair the defect or replace the firearm/part at its discretion, and to pay transportation and insurance charges for return of the firearm to the owner for a rightful warranty claim. This warranty is transferable for the serviceable lifetime of the firearm or part. Modification of firearm will void this warranty. This warranty does not cover ordinary wear and tear or any damage resulting from careless handling, neglect, repairs or adjustments, improper, substandard, reloaded or defective ammunition, corrosion, or other unreasonable use of the firearm or part.

To initiate a Warranty claim, call Palmetto State Armory Customer Service at (803) 724-6950, Monday through Friday, 9am - 6pm EST. Customer service will issue an RMA number to allow for the return of the firearm. Warranty claims must have this RMA filled out, and included in the box with the firearm or part. The firearm or part concerned must be shipped using the prepaid label our representative emails to you. Palmetto State Armory will pay shipping and insurance charges for the return of a firearm or part to its owner or FFL, if the related claim is a proper claim for warranty work. If Palmetto State Armory is unable to fix the original serial number, a new one will be sent out, but must go to an FFL for transfer back to the customer. Another background check will be completed at the time of transfer. Palmetto State Armory is not responsible for transfer fees at the FFL.

Under no circumstances shall Palmetto State Armory be responsible for incidental or consequential damages with respect to economic loss or injury to property, whether as a result of express or implied warranty, negligence or otherwise. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to you. Palmetto State Armory will not be responsible for the results of ordinary wear and tear, careless handling, neglect, unauthorized repairs or adjustments, improper, substandard, reloaded or defective ammunition, corrosion, or unreasonable use. This warranty gives you legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from State to State.

[RedRiverII]

Don't drill that hole or add stuff.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RedRiverII

[MDWeaponry]

5 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

Don't drill that hole or add stuff.

Well the warranty sounds promising. I’ll call them tomorrow and ask what they would do about it before I modify it at all. they don’t have upper receivers or 20 inch stainless barrels in stock according to their website. I dont want it to turn into a month or more without the rifle is my main concern. I already patiently and eagerly awaited it in the first place haha.

[MDWeaponry]

Thanks for the help and the warm welcome to the forum by the way!

[Peachey]

10 minutes ago, MDWeaponry said:

Thanks for the help and the warm welcome to the forum by the way!

Welcome to the forums. I too am in the process of getting my PA10 right (gen 2 also). Mine is the 18" version. Look up some of my earliest threads if ya want regarding the buffer issue I had. For the short term, 4 quarters in the tube got mine operating without damaging anything. I'm going with a Armalite gas tube and Sprinco Orange spring plus a custom made buffer as my first round of reliability/function upgrades. With that said, other than adding the quarters to prevent contact on the lower, it's run just fine. Probably 200 or so rounds thus far without a problem. They weren't very keen on any warranty work on mine until something actually broke. I decided to just avoid breakage. Welcome again!! 

[MDWeaponry]

4 minutes ago, Peachey said:

Welcome to the forums. I too am in the process of getting my PA10 right (gen 2 also). Mine is the 18" version. Look up some of my earliest threads if ya want regarding the buffer issue I had. For the short term, 4 quarters in the tube got mine operating without damaging anything. I'm going with a Armalite gas tube and Sprinco Orange spring plus a custom made buffer as my first round of reliability/function upgrades. With that said, other than adding the quarters to prevent contact on the lower, it's run just fine. Probably 200 or so rounds thus far without a problem. They weren't very keen on any warranty work on mine until something actually broke. I decided to just avoid breakage. Welcome again!! 

Thanks I’ll give the quarters a shot! And I figured they wouldn’t really want to do anything about it, especially since it’s not going to effect the function, just possibly the accuracy and my desire for a tighter fit. I’ll give them a call just to see what they say but I’m not gonna get my hopes up.

thanks for the welcome!

[Peachey]

@MDWeaponry No worries! I felt your pain so to speak reading your post. I'm here on the forums for the exact reason you are lol. Bought a PA10 and then figured out they're not 100% right. Good news is they are workable, and I still feel like they're a good purchase. Just wish they could be a good purchase and be right! These are really good folks around here for sure. 

[RedRiverII]

7" is the correct length.  You already have it.  Stay around and meet the other folks,  well worth it.   You'll be among the finest gun folks that ever existed.  Really.  These fellows and gals are the latest edition of the Wild Bunch.  They act crazy and wild at times but always end up pulling together,  especially for the newcomer.  How do I know?  It's like joining any clique.  Once you're in you're in.  I paid the price for seemingly stepping on someone's toes.  Feathers flew and then it's over.  Or you can be the best darn newcomer that we could wish for.  Thanks for the appreciation,  I simply past on this stuff from my betters.  But you're right,  you'll learn so much faster and better shooting the damn thing.  Keep us informed,  we like to see another gunner working his rig correctly, and passing on good info.

[MDWeaponry]

I’m not too upset with the purchase, although I’d be 100 percent happy if the upper fit wasn’t loose. Mainly because I’m turning this into a long range target rifle. Planning on a match barrel for it soon, but I feel like I need to fix the upper/lower slop first. If psa had a stripped upper In stock I’d get that and modify it but of course they’re out of stock. I just realized by the time I’m done with what I want to build I could have just gotten an aero precision matched set to work with for not much more money. 

Are there Any good uppers that fit well and look decent on a psa lower? 

When you say the 7 inch is correct, is 7 inch the same length as the armalite ar-10 tube? 

 

[MDWeaponry]

Here’s a picture of the rifle by the way. 

Ar  maglock because California, Harris bipod, and a vortex viper pst gen 2 5x25x50 scope up top.

oh yeah and this might ruffle some feathers but I went for the “build the wall” lower because I think it’s hilarious

[98Z5V]

5 hours ago, MDWeaponry said:

When you say the 7 inch is correct, is 7 inch the same length as the armalite ar-10 tube?

No, it's not the same as the Armalite AR-10 Carbine recoil system, nowhere close.

7.000" internal depth receiver extensions are AR15 parts, adapted to fit .308ARs.  The major adaptation is a shorter (2.500") carbine buffer and whatever spring whatever manufacturer tells you is their "AR-10 Carbine Spring" - which will end up being bullshiit...

Armalite AR-10 Carbine system was developed with a 3.250" Carbine buffer with three tungsten weights in it (aluminum body), and it weighs 5.4oz.  The Armalite AR-10 Carbine Receiver extension is 7 5/8" internal depth - proper length extension for a 3.250" buffer.  The spring is the Armalite EA1095, and they use the same spring in both Rifle recoil systems and Carbine recoil systems, and it works like a champ. 

Armalite developed this AR-10 Carbine Recoil system, before they developed the AR15 Carbine recoil system.  With the shorter BCG- length in the AR15, they realized that they wanted to use the same buffer body (3.250"), but with steel weights in it instead of tungsten - giving it a weight of 3.0 oz.  That was the AR15 carbine buffer, developed first, as the most important part of the recoil system. Next was, what receiver extension length will that need?  7.000" internal depth carbine receiver extension (official Armalite AR15 Carbine Receiver Extension depth is 6 15/16"...).  After that, they developed a proper AR15 carbine recoil spring...

The AR-10 Carbine Recoil System is far different than using AR15 receiver extensions, 2.500" buffer that you can only get a max weight of 3.8oz with the aluminum bodies, and a garbage spring, probably from an AR15 as well...

My $0.02...