Mixing things up

[Dragonscout]

Living in a relatively free state (Georgia) I don't think there's a problem with this, but I gotta ask to make sure I understand. I'm fairly certain you can't put a pistol upper on a carbine or rifle lower without making it an SBR. BUT...IF..I buy a .308 pistol lower and put the less than 16" upper, "voila", I have a danger to what hearing the Army left me with and it's a Pistol. NOW, Should I decide to swap out the upper for a unit longer than 16" I should be ok since I started with a pistol, correct??  Or is there something I'm dimensionally missing in my research?

[dpete]

If a lower begins its life as a pistol it can later be turned into a rifle and back to a pistol.

If a lower begins life as a rifle it is always a rifle no matter the length of the upper on it.  Legal rifle if over 16" or possibly illegal SBR if under.

If a pistol lower has a longer than 16" upper on it it is simply a long barrel pistol.  Not very pistol like in that form but still a pistol.

As far as I understand the messed up Federal gun laws, and I have both a pistol lower and a SBR lower and a suppressor to add to the mix I can put together.

Yes you are correct as I understand your question.

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by dpete

[Dragonscout]

OOOOOOh, I've always wanted a Buntline Special. Never thought I'd have one in .308!    Well how do you distinguish a pistol lower from a rifle lower? Geez, just when I think I'm starting to get a handle on the platform...

[dpete]

If you are buying a stripped lower its neither one.  At least here in WI its an other.  A typical rifle lower will have what most people recognize as a stock, either adjustable, or fixed.  A pistol will typically have what is termed a pistol brace instead of a stock. 

 

In picture above.   Top is SBR with stock.   12 1/2" barrel with flash can.  

Bottom is pistol with SBA3 pistol brace.   8" barrel with 10" suppressor.

In this picture the pistol is actually longer than the rifle.

[Sharpshooter]

I know I'm not the first to say this, but that's fukked up! Thank you to our legislators!

[Dragonscout]

And it only takes some unelected dork to change his/her "interpretation" and ...there you are...

[Cliff R]

I used to do this for a living but things may have changed some since I retired. 

When we encountered weapons during a boarding or other stop or crime scene we looked at barrel length, which includes the entire barrel from the back to end.  It had to be 16".  It could be shorter, if the flash hider/muzzle device was pinned/welded in place to make the total length 16" or longer.

Then you have overall length or combined between the receiver, stock and barrel, 26".  Anything shorter raises some issues with the Fed's (SBR)..

For pistols barrel length isn't part of the equation, nor is overall length, although LOP or Length Of Pull factors into the equation.  Basically the weapon just has to qualify as a pistol and not a rifle.  I believe this is how these AR pistol builds are sliding in under the regulations.  I NEVER encountered a "pistol" AR build back when I was doing that sort of thing, they just weren't that popular back then.  We did encounter select fire/full auto weapons and SBR's, and legal owners of them know that the appropriate paperwork MUST be available for them and up to date.

Something else to note here is that it is ALWAYS best to start with a stripped lower, so it can be classified as "other".  If you bought a complete lower or rifle that was originally built as a rifle, you can not build it into a pistol.  Not known to the general public but the "system" where we called in to find out if any given serial number for a weapon found at a scene to check it's status was so messed up you couldn't trust the results.  Just about every single one I ever "ran" while on scene either came up stolen, came up as completely something other than what it was,  or didn't come up at all.  I learned not to jump all over that deal as 95 times out of 100 the results were not accurate.  There again, I retired in 2003 and since they may have cleaned up that deal some.

Another thing that can get you into trouble is adding a vertical, angled or other type of fore-grip to a pistol build.  Best to leave all that alone out there in case you get stopped or get into an incident where you had to use it for self defense and LE will be taking a closer look at it.

Last item to mention is that nearly 100 percent of the violations I charged folks with was dumb chit like taking a hack saw and cutting most of the barrel off a single shot H & R shotgun, then sawing off the stock to make the damned thing WAY shorter than the legal OAL.  You'd be surprised at how many folks do that sort of thing and make themselves subject to the same fines and jail time as carrying around a full auto M-16 which they didn't have a Tax Stamp for!....Stupid, just stupid, you've only got ONE shot and takes a LONG time to fumble for more ammo and reload it.....DUH?.........

[Dragonscout]

Thanks Cliff. And I never understood the sawed-off deal either other than it got a buddy killed. "Routine" traffic stop on the way to the motor pool at the end of the shift. He wrote the guy a warning and when he went back to the vehicle to give it to the dude, the guy cut him down with one. When we got to the scene, his new female MP trainee was in the combat crouch clicking away on empty cylinders, but she had ended the threat. After that, my entire arc as a trainer changed for road patrols. But that's a story for another time (ah, the 70's). Thanks again as in these time you can't make a mistake and it seems no one has "a sense of humor " anymore.

[Sharpshooter]

@dragonscout: you're right. No sense of humor out there anymore. I was LEO in the mid-70s. It doesn't seem to be the same anymore. And no reason it should be. Times change, so do attitudes, and so do ... don't know what I was going to say there, but fuggit, times change.

[RedRiverII]

hmm...  just watching.

[Cliff R]

You are welcome.

It's even a difficult topic to "Google" as some miss-information exists on the Internet....imagine that!

Always best to pull up one of the .gov sights and read the regulations.  Even so some of the language they use can be a bit confusing so it's best to read it two or three times to make sure you completely understand it.

There are also "opinions" found on line on several of these topics like selling firearms to another person on a "cash and carry" basis.  One of those is face to face long gun sales.  Just because it may not be in direct violation of any local laws in your State, and not in direct violation of any Federal Laws, it still doesn't get you past the responsibility to make sure whoever you are selling the firearm to is actually a resident of your State and NOT a prohibited person.

I know you see all sorts of sales in parking lots at Gun Shows, and even at the tables when the seller says that it's part of a "personal collection", or he may be selling it on consignment for another, etc.  These days I'm NOT selling to anyone for any reason without going thru someone with an FFL.  The buyer shouldn't mind the additional cost and time involved, and rest assured if they woln't pass the background check they are going to disappear into oblivion anyhow........FWIW.....

Edited April 26, 2020 by Cliff R

[mrmackc]

11 minutes ago, Cliff R said:

You are welcome.

It's even a difficult topic to "Google" as some miss-information exists on the Internet....imagine that!

Always best to pull up one of the .gov sights and read the regulations.  Even so some of the language they use can be a bit confusing so it's best to read it two or three times to make sure you completely understand it.

There are also "opinions" found on line on several of these topics like selling firearms to another person on a "cash and carry" basis.  One of those is face to face long gun sales.  Just because it may not be in direct violation of any local laws in your State, and not in direct violation of any Federal Laws, it still doesn't get you past the responsibility to make sure whoever you are selling the firearm to is actually a resident of your State and NOT a prohibited person.

I know you see all sorts of sales in parking lots at Gun Shows, and even at the tables when the seller says that it's part of a "personal collection", or he may be selling it on consignment for another, etc.  These days I'm NOT selling to anyone for any reason without going thru someone with an FFL.  The buyer shouldn't mind the additional cost and time involved, and rest assured if they woln't pass the background check they are going to disappear into oblivion anyhow........FWIW.....

Sheeple