300 HAM'R short stroking

[billymagg]

So first range trip yesterday, 18" Wilson Combat Hunter profile 300 HAM'R barrel with 3/32" or 7/64" gas port, Wilson low profile gas block, Wilson intermediate gas tube right in the middle of the cam pin cut out.  Wilson standard NIB bolt carrier, Wilson standard carbine buffer kit.. I did put the 40 coil flat spring in it per Wilson's recommendation for 6.8 SPC and 300 Black. 

Good news is nothing blew up when I pulled the trigger, lol, shooting single rounds, not a single round locked the bolt back on the empty mag. Standard 5.56 mags, ASC aluminum 5 round, ASC steel 5 round, Magpull 20 round, and Colt aluminum 20 round. 

I did have 1 FTE with the old Colt mag, about 1/2 in, half out, came right out when I pulled the charging handle... case mouth was all mangled, rest are very sweet and round.

Went home and changed the buffer spring back to Wilson's standard carbine buffer spring that came in the kit, now it ejects around 3:00 o'clock, locking back all the rounds, but when I attempt to put 3 rounds in the magazine, it is not picking up the 2nd round. The bolt did over ride the 2nd round once, and dented the side of the case..  not once did it pick up the second round.

I'm going to try switching out the buffer springs from 2 other rifles, and may try to get a lighter recoil spring, I don't want to pull that stinking hand guard off again, but I was thinking when I installed the gas block that was a smallish looking gas port... I don't want to have to go down that route, and I don't have a drill press, so I'm hoping I can find a slightly lighter recoil spring..

oh yes, I'm running it sopping wet like everything else I run...

Wilson's 125gr FMJ, I do have some 110 SP that I will try next range trip.

Edited November 29, 2020 by billymagg
ammo

[billymagg]

11 minutes ago, billymagg said:

So first range trip yesterday, 18" Wilson Combat Hunter profile 300 HAM'R barrel with 3/32" or 7/64" gas port, Wilson low profile gas block, Wilson intermediate gas tube right in the middle of the cam pin cut out.  Wilson standard NIB bolt carrier, Wilson standard carbine buffer kit.. I did put the 40 coil flat spring in it per Wilson's recommendation for 6.8 SPC and 300 Black. 

Good news is nothing blew up when I pulled the trigger, lol, shooting single rounds, not a single round locked the bolt back on the empty mag. Standard 5.56 mags, ASC aluminum 5 round, ASC steel 5 round, Magpull 20 round, and Colt aluminum 20 round. 

I did have 1 FTE with the old Colt mag, about 1/2 in, half out, came right out when I pulled the charging handle... case mouth was all mangled, rest are very sweet and round.

Went home and changed the buffer spring back to Wilson's standard carbine buffer spring that came in the kit, now it ejects around 3:00 o'clock, locking back all the rounds, but when I attempt to put 3 rounds in the magazine, it is not picking up the 2nd round. The bolt did over ride the 2nd round once, and dented the side of the case..  not once did it pick up the second round.

I'm going to try switching out the buffer springs from 2 other rifles, and may try to get a lighter recoil spring, I don't want to pull that stinking hand guard off again, but I was thinking when I installed the gas block that was a smallish looking gas port... I don't want to have to go down that route, and I don't have a drill press, so I'm hoping I can find a slightly lighter recoil spring..

oh yes, I'm running it sopping wet like everything else I run...

Wilson's 125gr FMJ, I do have some 110 SP that I will try next range trip.

That 40 coil Wilson spring was 17 1/8" longs, it is stiff. I did not measure the length of the standard spring, and the buffer tube should be 7" deep, standard carbine recoil kit from Wilson.

With the standard Wilson spring it's trying to run now, locking back, but I'm fairly certain the bolt travel is short stroking, so not picking up the 2nd round off the top of the magazine.

All the operating system is Wilson Combat, I was hoping to eliminate any tolerance stacking...

Edited November 29, 2020 by billymagg

[shooterrex]

Your bolt is traveling to fast if it's locking back but skipping the next round. Go up on your buffer weight w/the same spri g you are using now.

[billymagg]

1 hour ago, shooterrex said:

Your bolt is traveling to fast if it's locking back but skipping the next round. Go up on your buffer weight w/the same spri g you are using now.

Have a suggestion Shooter?? I'm listening, and thanks very much for your reply, it may very well be too fast with the regular Wilson spring?? It would not lock on an empty mag at all with the 40 coil flat wire Wilson spring...

[shooterrex]

Try a H2 or H3 buffer to slow the bolt down just a bit. If it is locking back with the stock spring you have enough gas.

[billymagg]

2 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Try a H2 or H3 buffer to slow the bolt down just a bit. If it is locking back with the stock spring you have enough gas. 

Sounds good Shooter, I'll see what I can find..

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Your bolt is traveling to fast if it's locking back but skipping the next round. Go up on your buffer weight w/the same spri g you are using now.

^^^   This, right here.

1st scenario you listed - too much spring, makes it look undergassed.  Not locking back.

2nd scenario you listed - BCG running way too fast, and over-running the next round it's supposed to pick up.

So, first spring obviously doesn't work,because you need more gas, or less recoil.  CUTTING buffer weight would do it, with that spring.

Next, install a standard spring, which really can't handle the amount of gas that you've got going on, and that BCG is flying.  Easiest thing to do, in order to test...  UP the buffer weight and see what happens.  As SOON as you drill that gas port in that barrel  WC will turn their back on you.  They won't even help diagnose a gun you built from their parts, if they didn't assemble a full gun and ship it to you - and I don't blame them one bit for listing that on their website, either.  Not their problem.  Imagine what we go through here to try to get information out of people, for routine shiit - they'd go crazy trying to sort out what customers do with their own builds. 

However - we're not intimidated.  Bring the pain...  

P.S. Lova ya,man - but you never did state in this thread what the buffer specifics were.  Gotta be 3.250" long, but you never once mention the buffer weight... 

 

Smooches...  ❤️

Edited November 30, 2020 by 98Z5V

[billymagg]

15 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

^^^   This, right here.

1st scenario you listed - too much spring, makes it look undergassed.  Not locking back.

2nd scenario you listed - BCG running way too fast, and over-running the next round it's supposed to pick up.

So, first spring obviously doesn't work,because you need more gas, or less recoil.  CUTTING buffer weight would do it, with that spring.

Next, install a standard spring, which really can't handle the amount of gas that you've got going on, and that BCG is flying.  Easiest thing to do, in order to test...  UP the buffer weight and see what happens.  As SOON as you drill that gas port in that barrel  WC will turn their back on you.  They won't even help diagnose a gun you built from their parts, if they didn't assemble a full gun and ship it to you - and I don't blame them one bit for listing that on their website, either.  Not their problem.  Imagine what we go through here to try to get information out of people, for routine shiit - they'd go crazy trying to sort out what customers do with their own builds. 

However - we're not intimidated.  Bring the pain...  

P.S. Lova ya,man - but you never did state in this thread what the buffer specifics were.  Gotta be 3.250" long, but you never once mention the buffer weight... 

 

Smooches...  ❤️

Smooches right back at cha Baby! The standard buffer is 3.250" inches long, another range session this morning with 300 Black mags, still no soap, and does NOT want to cycle them by hand as well, nor would it pick up the second round.  I popped the shorter and heavier buffer out of the 308, I'm gonna try that one out next with the standard spring

 If that works I will order the H2 and possibly the H3 and send whichever one back that doesn't work. That damn trigger is still at the Fox Lake distribution center since the 24th, so stuff is shipping slow.

I don't have a scale to weigh either of my current buffers,  the gas port is 3/32" or .094, so that really should do it? I'm running the 125gr Hornady FMJ...

I thought about trying Miss Wilson with that lighter buffer, she kind of dribbles them out, but I do have an adjustable gas block on her, so I could open it up a notch??

I'm also gonna try a couple of those 110gr Hornady soft points, see if that helps.

Will that longer buffer, 3.250 inches cause a problem in the big AR??

That buffer I was running is the buffer that comes in Wilson's kit with the buffer tube and spring included, I ordered the 40 coil flat spring because Wilson recommends that in their 6.5Grendel and 6.8 SPC build... 

Edited November 30, 2020 by billymagg

[billymagg]

6 minutes ago, billymagg said:

Smooches right back at cha Baby! The standard buffer is 3.250" inches long, another range session this morning with 300 Black mags, still no soap, and does NOT want to cycle them by hand as well, nor would it pick up the second round.  I popped the shorter and heavier buffer out of the 308, I'm gonna try that one out next with the standard spring

 If that works I will order the H2 and possibly the H3 and send whichever one back that doesn't work. That damn trigger is still at the Fox Lake distribution center since the 24th, so stuff is shipping slow.

I don't have a scale to weigh either of my current buffers,  the gas port is 3/32" or .094, so that really should do it? I'm running the 125gr Hornady FMJ...

I thought about trying Miss Wilson with that lighter buffer, she kind of dribbles them out, but I do have an adjustable gas block on her, so I could open it up a notch??

I'm also gonna try a couple of those 110gr Hornady soft points, see if that helps.

Will that longer buffer, 3.250 inches cause a problem in the big AR??

That buffer I was running is the buffer that comes in Wilson's kit with the buffer tube and spring included, I ordered the 40 coil flat spring because Wilson recommends that in their 6.5Grendel and 6.8 SPC build... 

Wilson calls it a standard carbine buffer. I definitely want to avoid drilling that gas port if possible, cause I'm pretty sure I would be buying another adjustable gas block.

Edited November 30, 2020 by billymagg
addition

[billymagg]

15 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

^^^   This, right here.

1st scenario you listed - too much spring, makes it look undergassed.  Not locking back.

2nd scenario you listed - BCG running way too fast, and over-running the next round it's supposed to pick up.

So, first spring obviously doesn't work,because you need more gas, or less recoil.  CUTTING buffer weight would do it, with that spring.

Next, install a standard spring, which really can't handle the amount of gas that you've got going on, and that BCG is flying.  Easiest thing to do, in order to test...  UP the buffer weight and see what happens.  As SOON as you drill that gas port in that barrel  WC will turn their back on you.  They won't even help diagnose a gun you built from their parts, if they didn't assemble a full gun and ship it to you - and I don't blame them one bit for listing that on their website, either.  Not their problem.  Imagine what we go through here to try to get information out of people, for routine shiit - they'd go crazy trying to sort out what customers do with their own builds. 

However - we're not intimidated.  Bring the pain...  

P.S. Lova ya,man - but you never did state in this thread what the buffer specifics were.  Gotta be 3.250" long, but you never once mention the buffer weight... 

 

Smooches...  ❤️

Wilson has apparently discontinued the 40 Coil flat buffer spring, and now has a 37 Coil buffer spring for the Ar-15 and another part number for the AR-10...

[shooterrex]

Don't put a longer buffer in the 308.

That will keep the BCG from coming back far enough to lock back or pick up the next round.

Edited November 30, 2020 by shooterrex

[billymagg]

19 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

^^^   This, right here.

1st scenario you listed - too much spring, makes it look undergassed.  Not locking back.

2nd scenario you listed - BCG running way too fast, and over-running the next round it's supposed to pick up.

So, first spring obviously doesn't work,because you need more gas, or less recoil.  CUTTING buffer weight would do it, with that spring.

Next, install a standard spring, which really can't handle the amount of gas that you've got going on, and that BCG is flying.  Easiest thing to do, in order to test...  UP the buffer weight and see what happens.  As SOON as you drill that gas port in that barrel  WC will turn their back on you.  They won't even help diagnose a gun you built from their parts, if they didn't assemble a full gun and ship it to you - and I don't blame them one bit for listing that on their website, either.  Not their problem.  Imagine what we go through here to try to get information out of people, for routine shiit - they'd go crazy trying to sort out what customers do with their own builds. 

However - we're not intimidated.  Bring the pain...  

P.S. Lova ya,man - but you never did state in this thread what the buffer specifics were.  Gotta be 3.250" long, but you never once mention the buffer weight... 

 

Smooches...  ❤️

Jason at Wilson Combat says the standard 3.250" carbine buffer weighs 3 oz, the short 2.5 buffer in the big Wilson weighs 3.8 oz.

Jason is running the standard spring and buffer in his 300 HAM'R, obviously that's not working for me, but Jason suggested I try the Lancer Magazines he is running, stating that they are much more rigid than PMAG's. I have no doubt about that, and told Jason I was gonna try the 3.8 oz heavy buffer out of the 308 Ar.. he said go ahead, but he imagined it would be to heavy..

So tommorow, I'm going to try the heavy short buffer, with those 300 Blk Pmag's, as well as my ASC's and Colt, wish me luck!

I will add that all my empties were in a line at 3:OO o'clock from 5 to 7 ft out.

Wilson does not sell any buffers separately, he suggested Brownell's or Midway.

 

[billymagg]

2 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Don't put a longer buffer in the 308.

That will keep the BCG from coming back far enough to lock back or pick up the next round.

That's what I was thinking, thanks Shooter, Jason told me it wouldn't hurt to shoot the short buffer in the 300, it is 3.8 ozs, but he thought it was to heavy, guess we'll find out tomorrow...

[shooterrex]

The short buffer MIGHT let the BCG slam into the rear of the receiver.

[billymagg]

1 minute ago, shooterrex said:

The short buffer MIGHT let the BCG slam into the rear of the receiver.

Oh damn, this is like the circus, lol!

[edgecrusher]

54 minutes ago, billymagg said:

Jason at Wilson Combat says the standard 3.250" carbine buffer weighs 3 oz, the short 2.5 buffer in the big Wilson weighs 3.8 oz.

Jason is running the standard spring and buffer in his 300 HAM'R, obviously that's not working for me, but Jason suggested I try the Lancer Magazines he is running, stating that they are much more rigid than PMAG's. I have no doubt about that, and told Jason I was gonna try the 3.8 oz heavy buffer out of the 308 Ar.. he said go ahead, but he imagined it would be to heavy..

So tommorow, I'm going to try the heavy short buffer, with those 300 Blk Pmag's, as well as my ASC's and Colt, wish me luck!

I will add that all my empties were in a line at 3:OO o'clock from 5 to 7 ft out.

Wilson does not sell any buffers separately, he suggested Brownell's or Midway.

 

I don’t understand the light buffers people try to use.... I go as heavy as possible as long as it functions.

[billymagg]

5 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

I don’t understand the light buffers people try to use.... I go as heavy as possible as long as it functions.

I bought Wilson's 40 flat coil recoil spring which they were recommending to go with the 6.8 SPC, 300 Black, 300 HAM'R, while it fires and ejected most of the time, it would NOT lock back on an empty magazine or pick up the 2nd round... So I popped Wilson's standard spring back in, now it will lock back on an empty mag, but still will not pick up the 2nd round.

Shooter suggested the bolt is moving much to fast, and that a heavy buffer will slow it down enough to all it to pick up the second round... a hypothesis that may be born out by the fact that twice, the bolt has over traveled the stop and locked on top of the empty magazine?? once when I removed the mag, away she goes into battery! the second time I dropped the mag, it just hung there?? what the hell??

So, I'm going to order a couple of buffers, at least a heavy carbine buffer, and an H2 likely... I was going to try it with the heavy 2.5 inch, 3.8 oz buffer out of the 308 AR, but as Shooter suggested it could over travel and allow the BCG to slam in to the back of the receiver, I don't want to beat up my receiver, so I'll try to get a couple of buffer's ordered ASAP.. How's Midway on ship times??

[billymagg]

47 minutes ago, billymagg said:

I bought Wilson's 40 flat coil recoil spring which they were recommending to go with the 6.8 SPC, 300 Black, 300 HAM'R, while it fires and ejected most of the time, it would NOT lock back on an empty magazine or pick up the 2nd round... So I popped Wilson's standard spring back in, now it will lock back on an empty mag, but still will not pick up the 2nd round.

Shooter suggested the bolt is moving much to fast, and that a heavy buffer will slow it down enough to all it to pick up the second round... a hypothesis that may be born out by the fact that twice, the bolt has over traveled the stop and locked on top of the empty magazine?? once when I removed the mag, away she goes into battery! the second time I dropped the mag, it just hung there?? what the hell??

So, I'm going to order a couple of buffers, at least a heavy carbine buffer, and an H2 likely... I was going to try it with the heavy 2.5 inch, 3.8 oz buffer out of the 308 AR, but as Shooter suggested it could over travel and allow the BCG to slam in to the back of the receiver, I don't want to beat up my receiver, so I'll try to get a couple of buffer's ordered ASAP.. How's Midway on ship times??

Okay, I ordered an H and an H2 heavy buffer from Brownell's, says they won't be here till next week, that stinks...

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, billymagg said:

Smooches right back at cha Baby! The standard buffer is 3.250" inches long, another range session this morning with 300 Black mags, still no soap, and does NOT want to cycle them by hand as well, nor would it pick up the second round.  I popped the shorter and heavier buffer out of the 308, I'm gonna try that one out next with the standard spring

 

Do NOT put a 2.500" buffer in a gun that's designed for a 3.250" buffer!!!   That BCG will recoil back and slam the shiit out of the ears on your lower receiver.   You'll think that you just bought a PA-10.  Don't do it...

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, shooterrex said:

The short buffer MIGHT WILL  let the BCG slam into the rear of the receiver.

^^^ This.

[billymagg]

9 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

^^^ This.

Yes Sir! we don't want that happening to "The Dirty Little Thirty"!  I'm loving this little rifle, and it does want to shoot. I've been running the range at 65 yds so I can kind of see whats happening, its fun watching those .30 call holes snuggle in together..

I took this to the farm to shoot yesterday afternoon my friend, and thought, I'm gonna wait till 98 and the 308 AR crowd weighs in on this, thank you gentlemen... I know a hell of a lot more now than I did when I joined this forum!

Sadly, when you start to understand the mechanics of common house hold AR's, you realize just how little you actually did know before...

 

[billymagg]

12 hours ago, billymagg said:

Yes Sir! we don't want that happening to "The Dirty Little Thirty"!  I'm loving this little rifle, and it does want to shoot. I've been running the range at 65 yds so I can kind of see whats happening, its fun watching those .30 call holes snuggle in together..

I took this to the farm to shoot yesterday afternoon my friend, and thought, I'm gonna wait till 98 and the 308 AR crowd weighs in on this, thank you gentlemen... I know a hell of a lot more now than I did when I joined this forum!

Sadly, when you start to understand the mechanics of common house hold AR's, you realize just how little you actually did know before...

 

and maybe even more important, how much you've still got to learn....

[billymagg]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 7:04 PM, billymagg said:

and maybe even more important, how much you've still got to learn....

So I had built my rifle with a Rise Armament RA434 trigger when the Wilson did not show up for nearly two weeks, damn nice trigger, but a freak show to put in, had to drop the grip, pull the safety, install the safety, then safety would not cross the top of the trigger, so I dropped both pins out of the trigger, reinstalled the safety, and then pulled the trigger back up and pinned it with the anti walk pins. That was such a pain..

Well the Wilson 4 lb drop in trigger came, and I decided to stay with Wilson, dropped out the Rise Armament, of course had to drop the grip and pull the safety, took the trigger out and reinstalled the safety. To my surprise the Wilson trigger would not drop in , (its supposed to clear the safety and drop right in), so I had to pull they safety again, and install the Wilson trigger, well surprise again, the safety would still NOT go in. So knock the pins back out of the Wilson, thought I could get by with just the back, but NO, had to drop the front pin and push the trigger down hard, over and over again, and I finally got the safety in, the raised the Wilson back up, and had to fight with the pins again, but finally got them in...

All good now, but what a pain in the butt, the Rise Armament actually had a much nicer pull, but it was a little loose in the hammer/safety channel, and I like the way the stock Wilson pins lock in, theres a small wire d-clip inletted into the side of the drop in trigger, it ain't going anywhere..

So I dropped a couple of quarters into the buffer tube, re-installed my spring, I was going to shoot, but the boys were cutting Thorny Black Locust for firewood, and I did NOT want to interrupt that...

I hope those heavy buffers come tomorrow, I'd like to see this girl run!

Edited December 7, 2020 by billymagg

[shooterrex]

The black locust burn real hot. I've had several folks tell us not to burn the locust in a wood stove. YMMV

[billymagg]

23 hours ago, shooterrex said:

The black locust burn real hot. I've had several folks tell us not to burn the locust in a wood stove. YMMV

Yes Sir, its our cousin and he has an outside wood box away from the house, he's been running wood for years, and I'm thankful for all that crap we get off the farm, kinda like thistles... It's beautiful wood, I'd love to have a custom take down recurve laminated with wood from the farm, its is really pretty, and the trees they cut yesterday were very clean and straight...

I concur on the locust,  it does burn hot, and the secret is to let it cure and get as much sap as possible out of it, you can also mix it slower burning hardwoods. I have run a woodstove as my only heat in Central Mo when I was in college and pastoring a small church, course we always had a fireplace, and burnt wood at home. My Mom and Dad were thrilled when they bought a fireplace insert, and we had a ducted collector and fan's on each side, so it put out a lot of heat..

Its important to have a tight firebox that you can actually damp down, I love a nice wood fire, my brother in law cuts a LOT of wood and sells it...

My Heavy H1 and H2 buffers came in today, and I put the H2 in the "Dirty Little Thirty", I ordered some 10 round Lancers, some FDE inserts for the handguard, a short rail section for a bi-pod, and a little more ammo.  I can't wait to shoot it, but I'm meeting Swiftab tomorrow, so a nice little drive for each of us and I'm really looking forward to meeting him and setting up a proper reloading bench in the basement... I'm gonna have to tear out my old bench, take down my Father in Laws old pegboard, and pull the paneling off to make sure I have enough support, I'm afraid I need to put a few more two by fours in behind that paneling, all fun, I can't wait!

There was one can of CFE 300 Black left, so I attempted to buy it, come to find out it was an empty display....