98Z5V Posted December 15, 2022 Report Share Posted December 15, 2022 Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 RIP Bang Ting. Your ass is in my front seat now, thanks to Doc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 On 11/15/2022 at 5:03 PM, Armed Eye Doc said: Welcome to the forum. It was great meeting you in the desert. I hope you can come back next year, at least for the cheesecake. Oh, there was more than cheesecake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) On 12/12/2022 at 9:13 PM, Matt.Cross said: This guy summed it up really well... I love this, by the way. My Mantra. It was almost visible, for everyone to see, this weekend. But it wasn't. Cooler heads than mine prevailed. My head wasn't cool. Not in the least. For that, I thank you all, and you know who you are. "It's very difficult to be good..." Edited November 14, 2023 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 On 11/14/2023 at 1:25 AM, 98Z5V said: I love this, by the way. My Mantra. It was almost visible, for everyone to see, this weekend. But it wasn't. Cooler heads than mine prevailed. My head wasn't cool. Not in the least. For that, I thank you all, and you know who you are. "It's very difficult to be good..." I love you brother, and I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you because we could only ask you to make the right call, none of us could force the right call on you. You made the right call of your own volition, whether you really wanted to or not, and that's why I'm proud of you. You are a warrior who chose peace for his friends sake, in spite of himself, and that's admirable from any perspective. It certainly is from mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camotruck Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 I agree but there's one thing I question that I know you guys will not like. With all the constant desire for safety why are we allowing hard alcohol there? This could have just as easily gone bad resulting in someone being critically or even fatally injured. If that were to happen the shootouts are over! I think everyone who attends the shootout needs to take a long hard look and decide for themselves if the alcohol is worth the risk? Beer is one thing but when you have anyone who's hitin the hard stuff even moderately things could go in a direction nobody wants it to. This guy was an unknown on his first time out there and things could have turned out tragic! Ask yourselves... Are we willing to accept the outcome of the possible loss of one of our members for the sake of the liquor? We can never go back and change it once it happens God forbid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Camotruck said: I agree but there's one thing I question that I know you guys will not like. With all the constant desire for safety why are we allowing hard alcohol there? This could have just as easily gone bad resulting in someone being critically or even fatally injured. If that were to happen the shootouts are over! I think everyone who attends the shootout needs to take a long hard look and decide for themselves if the alcohol is worth the risk? Beer is one thing but when you have anyone who's hitin the hard stuff even moderately things could go in a direction nobody wants it to. This guy was an unknown on his first time out there and things could have turned out tragic! Ask yourselves... Are we willing to accept the outcome of the possible loss of one of our members for the sake of the liquor? We can never go back and change it once it happens God forbid! Todd, you are exactly right about the hard liquor. It was addressed that night and I, for one, will not bring any more to the shoot. It is not worth it. I can control me and no others. Edited November 14, 2023 by Armed Eye Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 15, 2023 Report Share Posted November 15, 2023 I'd like to know why they showed up in the first place. Neither one need to ever come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camotruck Posted November 15, 2023 Report Share Posted November 15, 2023 If I'm not mistaken that are friends of scuba Steve and Jen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camotruck Posted November 15, 2023 Report Share Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) Like it or not I feel the hard liquor needs to stop. Before someone gets hurt considering we are all armed. There were no issues with her 2 years ago. The issues that occurred this time were because of the hard alcohol consumption. No one, me included wants to be haunted for the rest of their lives by the memory of a tragic incident that occurred resulting in the deaths of one or more of this family because they got ripped drinking to the point they lost self control and poop went south for stupid reasons. It would be the end of the shootout. I've seen this happen with a group of Marines I used to meet up with at a motorcycle run. The Yuma Prison Run. When someone died tragically the group dissolved after 2 more years because of what happened. They couldn't deal with the loss and scattered across the country. Let's all be able to meet together as the tight knit family we are and just enjoy our hobby and each others company while we can. Edited November 15, 2023 by Camotruck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 15, 2023 Report Share Posted November 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Camotruck said: Like it or not I feel the hard liquor needs to stop. Before someone gets hurt considering we are all armed. There were no issues with her 2 years ago. The issues that occurred this time were because of the hard alcohol consumption. That's not the case, at all. Might as well get into it right now, like it or not. So, in your analogy, guns are the problem with people getting shot. Couldn't possibly defective people, could it? That is the real issue here, like it or not. I've been running this thing for 13th year now. Nothing has changed in the operation of the actual shoot. Much has changed in the size, and much has changed in how we organize camp, to handle the size. The vetting process failed, bad, this time. Her husband is an autistic alcoholic, and is currently in the alcohol program in the Army, by his own admission. He already has issues with alcohol, and is in trouble for it, in the Army. She was walking around with 2 unopened beers in the crook of her arm, one bottle of liquor in that same arm, and her opened beer in the other hand. And trying to slap-fight everyone in camp. He was drunk as fuuck, and went full-on racist right there at the fire. Then he shoved her to the ground... It wasn't hard alcohol being present in camp - it was two defective people being drunk as shiit in camp, and making asses of themselves. So, no matter how much you don't like it, and think it should stop - remember this... You have been invited into that camp, Todd. This is a place to gather for friends that I've made over the years, and it's taken years to build that up. We let people bring friends, but that part needs work. The vetting process needs beefed up, and we (and I'm talking about the core group of people that have invested years into this, and that's a small group of people) need to fix that. You may not like it, and that's fine, but what we do at the end of the day around the campfire isn't gonna have a bunch of rules put on it. Regardless of whether you agree with that or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camotruck Posted November 15, 2023 Report Share Posted November 15, 2023 I never said guns were the problem. And yes I was invited 6 or 7 years ago. If at any time you are having second thoughts or regrets about having invited me just say the word... I don't go where I'm not wanted or welcome. The decision is yours. I will say no more but I will stand by what I have said. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 I have been a member of this Forum for 12 years? anyway living here on the Rez I have seen the effects of Hard drinking and gun play and 98 is right it is defective people who have no control over their lives or anything else and that sort of person is NOT the kind of person we have at this shoot. I know I have only been to 2 shoots but I observe like a MoFo and I have loved the fact we police ourselves, that is the reason we were invited in the first place. We have to keep control over who comes and who does not for that to work, me myself I do not drink but very little and that is so I can have control over my actions, I only speak for myself and express what I have seen we are a tight group and must remain so to make this work.. we must be polite but firm and control who comes and goes and be the responsible adults we are . just my wooden nickel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 It's not an easy issue to contend with, on the one hand, we want new folks to be introduced to the shoot and become regular participants. On the other hand, it wasn't self-evident that these folks weren't suitable company until they got drunk and were well out of hand. The only factor I see the drinking playing is that it exposed personality traits we might've never witnessed otherwise. Going forward it will be made clear to participants that invitees who have not been vouched for by attendees in good standing are welcome to stay until sunset. If you will be camping overnight with us for the first time as an outsider, we'd prefer you did that at the Spring Event so we can get a sense of who you are and your fit to the whole group. The final note here for such invitees is that they'll be notified that the 'staff' comprised of Tom, JB Matt, and myself, may at ANY time veto their attendance and participation at our sole discretion, and will be expected to leave at their earliest convenience in such a case. If they can't be expected to adhere to that, they won't be welcome to begin with. It pains me to even need to say that, but we're trying to find our way forward in a manner that preserves the event for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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