Lookin for a reliable 308

[NoFail]

Got a couple ranges in town I'ma head out to tomorrow/today w/e (swing shift kills me). See if they have any AR'ish guns I can test. Being my first gun Idk what kind of stock and grip I like, and what weight feels right.

You will like the light one  <thumbsup>

[Kicknazz]

Ended up at Cabella's before I found anything. Had a sig and a POF couple armalite's, and an m1 . What I think felt the best was the POF P308.

The Armalight was an AR-10T with extra's 18 inch barrel, scope, looked like it had the quad rail instead of the standard T rail, with the magpul stock.

POF was a standard p308 14.5 inch barrel with the extra 1.6 inch flash hider welded on.

M1A was a scout bran new outta the box.

the sig looked like a sig716 patrol rifle.

Best stock I'd have to go with the M1 scout. Sig or the Armalite grip. But overall the POF was the best. The thinnest gun, it looked so sleek, and it just sat right in my hands, don't know how else to explain it. The trigger was a single stage trigger, which I don't like all to much.

The Magpul stock was way to stiff and straight, felt like I was shouldering a brick. The sig and the POF stocks I didn't care much for. But the M1A fit right, had a little give to it with the rubber end and kinda curved to my shoulder.

Anything under a 16 inch barrel looks way to short. I'm a rather big guy and holding a really small gun I feel like an idiot(kinda like in MIB when he gives him the noisy cricket  :wtf: ).

Any suggestions on the stock? see'n how the M1A is kinda un-detachable

[Jgun]

I have to tell you, the differences between the Springfield Scout and the other  AR type weapons is substantial. I didn't go back and review the other posts on your thread so please bear with me if I missed something important. Your title says your looking for a reliable .308. There are many different opinions as to the reliability and durability of the M14 type rifle vs the large platform AR type rifle. I have read of some quality control issues with the new from the factory Springfield rifles, the good news about that is that the company give a lifetime warranty, only problem is that you have to box it up and send it back to them. I haven't heard many complaints with the POF rifles, or the Armalites for that matter, but the price of a POF is substantially higher than the Springfield , isn't it?

That issue aside, I think that comparing them is kind of hard to do because they are really very different. The Scouts lighter, but is harder to mount optics and accessories to. Most agree that out of the box the AR will be more accurate than the Scout, although, with work they can be made to shoot pretty well. Some say that the M14 platform is a more durable and reliable battle rifle but I have not personally compared them in this respect. It's funny, most people seem to be very opinionated when it comes to these two rifle types, many of the M14 guys hate the AR's and some of the AR guys say the M14 is an out dated design. You seem to be one of the only people that I have heard that at least sounds like your just looking for the best tool without any emotional attachment to one design over the other.  I think that the modularity of the AR is a big plus, because it allows you to make many configuration chamges to the gun as your  mission needs change. You can even have a second upper with an AR that can be installed in about a minute by pulling two pins. This is not the case with the Scout. Another thing I find is that the amount of aftermarket parts to upgrade an AR are greater than with the M14. If you want a 2lb trigger in your AR it's not going to be a problem, in the Scout, not going to happen. This can go on and on, but most end up going one way or the other because they just like the way one looks or feels better than the other. I think you should buy one, and then next year buy the other.

[Kicknazz]

I have to tell you, the differences between the Springfield Scout and the other  AR type weapons is substantial. I didn't go back and review the other posts on your thread so please bear with me if I missed something important. Your title says your looking for a reliable .308. There are many different opinions as to the reliability and durability of the M14 type rifle vs the large platform AR type rifle. I have read of some quality control issues with the new from the factory Springfield rifles, the good news about that is that the company give a lifetime warranty, only problem is that you have to box it up and send it back to them. I haven't heard many complaints with the POF rifles, or the Armalites for that matter, but the price of a POF is substantially higher than the Springfield , isn't it?

That issue aside, I think that comparing them is kind of hard to do because they are really very different. The Scouts lighter, but is harder to mount optics and accessories to. Most agree that out of the box the AR will be more accurate than the Scout, although, with work they can be made to shoot pretty well. Some say that the M14 platform is a more durable and reliable battle rifle but I have not personally compared them in this respect. It's funny, most people seem to be very opinionated when it comes to these two rifle types, many of the M14 guys hate the AR's and some of the AR guys say the M14 is an out dated design. You seem to be one of the only people that I have heard that at least sounds like your just looking for the best tool without any emotional attachment to one design over the other.  I think that the modularity of the AR is a big plus, because it allows you to make many configuration chamges to the gun as your  mission needs change. You can even have a second upper with an AR that can be installed in about a minute by pulling two pins. This is not the case with the Scout. Another thing I find is that the amount of aftermarket parts to upgrade an AR are greater than with the M14. If you want a 2lb trigger in your AR it's not going to be a problem, in the Scout, not going to happen. This can go on and on, but most end up going one way or the other because they just like the way one looks or feels better than the other. I think you should buy one, and then next year buy the other.

I'm not partial to any gun atm and buying both isn't a bad idea. I was looking at building a gun so my most recent post was about what kind of base I wanted to start with and I was wondering if there are any stocks that feel like the M1A scout stock. - which I just looked up, it had the rubber butt plate. It felt like and inch to two inches of solid rubber. feels a lot better then 1/8th an inch of rubber then solid steel or aluminum.

[planeflyer21]

You can get a slew of different AR stocks.  I find that neither the AR308s nor the M1A platform kicks much.

Both of my M1As I installed GI flip-up butt plates.

I really like that the M1As have a lower part count...less parts to break. BUT that oprod system is finicky and loads MUST be within certain parameters.

Jgun already mentioned the different uppers for ARs. Two pins to pull and field stripping is well under way.  While M1A fans like to say "you don't crap where you eat" as a criticism of the AR's direct impingement system, the system can handle hotter loads as there is no oprod to bend and slam around.

I'm sold on ARs for .308 now and will skip the Springfield M1A offerings.

But if I get enough cash I WILL be getting a LRB M-14!

Jon

[Kicknazz]

Troy BattleRail TRX-308 - 13.8 --model: Armalite

MEGA MATEN 308 Upper / Ambi Lower / CH - Combo

Charging Handle: MEGA MATEN 308 Billet

Armalite AR10 Lower Parts Kit - 2 Stage NM Trigger ( http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1762 looks like more poop then I need)

Bolt Carrier Assembly : DPMS 308

Rainier Arms UltraMatch™ .308 Barrel - 18 --configuration: Armalite

Surefire Compensator/Adapter - MB762SSAL/RE

AR-style .308 stock mounting kits DPMS mil spec

Anything wrong with this stock? magpul car milspec adj stock. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27553/Product/AR-15-M16-ACS-trade-BUTTSTOCK

Missing anything? besides tools.

[washguy]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27553/Product/AR-15-M16-ACS-trade-BUTTSTOCK    save money HERE http://www.outdoorgearbarn.com/p-21534-magpul-ar15-acs-adaptable-carbine-storage-stock-mil-spec-black.aspx    WASH

[edgecrusher]

Troy BattleRail TRX-308 - 13.8 --model: Armalite

MEGA MATEN 308 Upper / Ambi Lower / CH - Combo

Charging Handle: MEGA MATEN 308 Billet

Armalite AR10 Lower Parts Kit - 2 Stage NM Trigger ( http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1762 looks like more shit then I need)

Bolt Carrier Assembly : DPMS 308

Rainier Arms UltraMatch™ .308 Barrel - 18 --configuration: Armalite

Surefire Compensator/Adapter - MB762SSAL/RE

AR-style .308 stock mounting kits DPMS mil spec

Anything wrong with this stock? magpul car milspec adj stock. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27553/Product/AR-15-M16-ACS-trade-BUTTSTOCK

Missing anything? besides tools.

I don't know about a few things but they are minor….

troy battle rail is good… but, and  I may be wrong, not sure you want the armalite pattern with the maten, you may need dpms…

you also have a dpms bolt carrier assembly with a rainier ultramatch, awesome choice in barrel but it needs to have the dpms extension to match your bolt carrier assembly, armalite and dpms won't jive

very minor things that will be easy to fix, nice start to a sweet rifle.

[Jgun]

As posted above, you've made some good components choices, to end up with (IMO) a gun that will be superior to what you might buy. In addition you'll have the satisfaction of putting it together yourself. The MA TAN receiver sets are excellent, fit and finish are top notch. As stated by Edgecrusher, You'd do well to match your bolt carrier group (or at least the bolt) type, to the barrel extension. You can build it as Armalite pattern with Armalite bolt and Armalite pettern barrel extension (I have done this, my MA TEN has a Armalite BCG and Noveske Afghan barrel) or DPMS pattern with DPMS BCG and a barrel with a DPMS pattern barrel extension.  Two things, if you decide to go with an Armalite type rifle length gas sysytem, don't forget to use an Armalite rifle length gas tube vs the DPMS rifle length gas tube (Armalite will be 1/4" longer to match the slightly different Armalite gas block location) You will still need to order the Troy rail to match a DPMS rifle because the MA TEN upper has the 1.437-16" pitch DPMS barrel nut thread and not the 18 pitch Armalite thread.

[Jgun]

I forgot to mention, if you source your barrel and bolt/BCG from different people (not a custom made barrel fitted to a specific bolt) Your going to want to have your headspace checked before firing the gun.

[Kicknazz]

So as I'm understanding it, DPMS and Armalite dont like to swim in the same pool. So then my next question is who makes a better gas system? Whats better, gas or gas piston?

And whats head space?

I can switched the barrel from armalite to dpms and same with the hand guard or switch the Bcg to armalite.

[Jgun]

I'm not clear on the last line of your last post, but, to address what I do understand. It is generally agreed that it's a good idea not to combine an Armalite bolt with a DPMS type barrel extension. I've switched the parts and manually cycled the action and the bolt closed, but have not and will not ever try to shoot the gun like that. the reverse also applys, don't use a DPMS type bolt with an Armalite type barrel extension.

Now, as far as one gas system (Armalite vs DPMS) being superior, they are essentially the same.  Most of us agree that a longer gas system (rifle vs mid/carbine) will give you a more reliable gun that kicks less, and is easier on bolts.  The dispute between gas and piston can be involved, there are advantages and disadvantages to each. If your building your first gun I'd suggest you go with DI gas just because it's simpler, less parts, cheaper.  Headspace is (please excuse if I don't use the proper technical language) the space between the surface that the cartridge rests against on the face of the bolt, and an established point in the chamber where the shoulder of the cartridge will locate. What we're concerned with here is that there is enough room in the chamber so that when a rd is loaded, there will be just enough clearance to allow the bolt to close without compressing the cartridge against the locating shoulder, but not enough to allow  the cartridge to be able to move back and forth in a closed chamber with a stripped bolt. We're talking thousandths of an inch here 12 thousandths would be too much. If your asking what headspace is, your probably not ready to check it yourself, besides which you need specific GO/NO GO gauges. For your first one you'll do yourself a favor to have it checked by someone that has done it before, and has the gauges.

[edgecrusher]

I can switched the barrel from armalite to dpms and same with the hand guard or switch the Bcg to armalite.

correct, and if you buy the carrier from Rainier, they will headspace for you.