Cliff R

"There needs to be some criteria set down for these “long distance records “. Repeatability needs to be worked into the formula, not taking away from this mans skills but one hit at two miles is not near as impressive to me as hitting the bullseye repeatedly at a 1,000 yards. Even a blind squirrel can occasionally find an acorn." We were only seeing a small part of what went on that day to finally nail down a hit on the target. I'm wondering how many rounds were fired before they finally landed one on the 36" steel plate? It didn't appear they backed it up with another hit, so it does sort of fall into the category of if you shoot enough rounds down range with very good equipment and excellent support you'll eventually work a round onto the target. Even with that said It's still a great accomplishment, and I know from shooting High Power matches using an match grade M-14 with a peep sight at 1000 yards that none of it just comes by accident, and the wind becomes a HUGE player at really long distances.........Cliff

"Sir, you should use proper terms when describing parts. We harp on this because it matters when swapping parts out. There is no such thing as a DPMS Oracle AR-10. There is a DPMS Oracle in .308. There are AR-10’s produced by Armalite. Their respective parts cannot be interchanged. We use proper terminology to avoid confusion. Thanks- management" Understood, didn't mean to confuse anyone, even folks selling them call them AR-10's: https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/dpms-oracle-ar-10-semi-automatic-308-winchester-762-nato-16-heavy-barrel-201-rounds?a=1783335 .....but as I found out after building two custom 308-AR's and trading for the Oracle to end up with a third rifle........there are some similarities, some parts interchange, and some parts do not. Wished I would have found this site before I dove into 308-AR's and not a couple of years later..........Cliff

I removed the factory 6 position stock and put an A2 stock on my DPMS Oracle AR-10 when I pulled it out of the box. I those are the parts you are looking for PM me, they will never get used here.......Cliff

"Taken a few deer with12 guage slugs. Without a doubt the most definitive kills I have ever witnessed. Like hitting a gnat with a sledgehammer comes to mind." I've have a Marlin model 1895 loaded with 300 grain hollow points at 2400fps. I've shot over a dozen deer with it (legal in Ohio for the past few years) and never had one take another step What is "Military" buckshot? During my 20 something years as a small arms instructor there were two types or brands of buckshot supplied to us in the stock system. Federal and Winchester Western. The Federal was horrible as far as group sizes and longer ranges. The WW was excellent. Both types were sealed to help prevent water from getting in them, so most likely part of the MIL Spec written for them required that they be sealed to prevent moisture contamination. Since I retired in 2003 there could be other types being used now, but that's what was available and what we used from the mid-1980's until 2003.......Cliff

I avoid slugs for home defense. Quite a few years back we did some penetration tests on vehicles with 00 buck and 1 ounce slugs. We placed a cardboard target on each seat about 6" inside the doors (4 door model). We fired 00 buck at the door and most of the pellets penetrated the door skins but failed to effectively get thru the inner door skins, panels and hit the targets. We moved to another door and fired a rifled slug at it. It went completely thru the door, thru the target, thru the target on the opposite seat, and completely thru the other door! Something to be said for the momentum and penetrating power involved with a .750" wide 437 grain projectile traveling around 1800 fps having 3100 ft lbs muzzle energy compared to a .33 round pellet weighing about 54 grains with only 172 ft lbs muzzle energy (about the same as a .380 round).........Cliff

"What kind of problem do you have???" I'm nucking futz!......Just ask my wife or anyone else who knows me very well. "What kind of problem do you have???......That takes 250 rounds of 00 Buck Shot to solve?" None at the moment, but the price of that ammo sure is attractive. As for using a shotgun for home defense, I recommend loading it with #6 low brass. One ounce of lead shot at close range you're unlikely to miss, and the person you will trying to stop will most likely stop whatever it was you didn't like them doing, and their chances of survival are not good either. I use #6 rabbit loads in my Remington 870 for home defense because they are less likely to penetrate walls and kill anyone else in my home who wasn't the intended target. My M-4 is close by equipped with a grip spot light (https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-new-gen-400-lumen-grip-light-w-qd-mounting-base.html) and 60 round Magpul drum, just in case I need a little more firepower than the Remington 870...........Cliff

Great info, thanks. I'll add a couple of things since I get involved with homicide investigations here in my County in Ohio (Chief CSI). Ohio (for example) is also a Castle Doctrine State. Many other States are as well. This changes the game some when it comes to potentially deadly encounters. You do NOT have to retreat nor to you have to be inside your residence to use deadly force. "Stand your ground" is also by used in some States and language used in association with Castle Doctrines. What this basically means is that if you have the right to use deadly force when all the elements exist and using deadly force is deemed reasonable for the circumstance when at your residence, vehicle or business. Basically without going into great detail, do NOT shoot anyone who doesn't need to be shot and you'll be fine when Law Enforcement comes around to investigate the incident. Now comes the important part. DO NOT leave your weapon in your vehicle for any reason. If you are going into a business, for example that has put up a sign in accordance with State Laws concerning CCW's and display a sign that weapons are not permitted in their establishment, don't leave your weapon in the vehicle. Criminals have been targeting vehicles in parking lots of these places because they know a LOT of folks have CCW's and there will be a high percentage of vehicles in close proximity to those establishments with weapons left in them. They are also (and have been for some time) targeting residences by reading obituaries. Yes, they know that when folks pass away it may be several days for the surviving family members to remove firearms (and other valuables) from those residences. The hardest hit in that group are elderly and were living in farmhouses or in remote areas. Hope this helps some......Cliff

For sure there is some pretty cool chit on the market far as scopes are concerned. I have a couple here with the quick adjust turrets and have played around some with that deal but our range is limited to about 500 yards so knowing my sight dope is equally as effective as having BDC capabilities, I just hold over when needed and crank the rounds right where they need to be. For my hunting rifles, especially those I take out West for big game, size and weight are a primary concern. When you are running around like a Gazelle chasing Elk all over the Mountain at 12,000' the last thing I want is a huge scope on my rifle and the extra weight/bulk that goes with it. In the twenty something years I've been going out there can't remember a single trip where I didn't have at least one hard fall. I have always managed to protect the scope but we had one friend nearly amputate his scope off the rifle when he was thrown from his horse into some rocks. Pretty much ruined his trip as his rifle was without back-up sights and we were half a days ride in from the nearest road. I carried a Marlin model 1895 until two years ago when I switched over to the AR-308 platform. My 45/70 was topped with a Leupold 1-4 VX-3, the 308 is topped with a Leupold 2-7. Small, simple and rugged. We shoot from 25 out to 400 yards before we leave. On the AR platform the 308 round is all over an Elk with zero holdover out to 300 yards. The high distance from centerline from the barrel to the scope helps that deal some. You just have to be aware that a high holdover at 100 yards can put the bullet pretty far over the line of sight in the mid-range until it falls back to Earth a bit. In all the years I've been going out there we've been pretty successful, but I can only remember one scenario where I had legal bulls just walking out in the open and staying there long enough for me to work some turrets and zero in on them before they moved back into the thick timber. Matter of fact all the encounters I've had with legal bulls have been quick, moving fast, and so thick you could barely crawl thru the undergrowth, and never over about 80 yards. I still love to watch the hunting channel where they are zeroing in on bulls at 800 yards or so and they hang around long enough to make a half hour show out of it. That NEVER happens on the Public land I've had access to in the last two decades, so thoughts of laser guided scopes with BDC's have never even been a topic of discussion in camp. I switched over to the AR platform predominantly to have a 100 percent weatherproof platform and super-quick follow up shots, just wished these rifles were about 5 pounds lighter!........Cliff

"Look for reviews online (everywhere, EVERYWHERE, these days)." True, but you still have to weed thru the BS and nonsense when it comes to on-line reviews for many products. I see products all the time that should be rated at 5+ stars getting 2's and 3's from folks. However, when you start reading those "low" reviews it doesn't take one or two lines before you realize that those folks need to keep their day jobs and stay the hell out of whatever hobby they were messing with and giving excellent parts low ratings......FWIW.

She whipped up some kielbasa and chicken breast to mix with the seasoned rice. Saving the shrimp she bought for the next batch!.........Cliff

"I just picked up one of those $299 uppers. I got the chrome lined nitrited barrel" The "nitride" barrels are typically not chrome lined. They do offer chrome lined barrels but those uppers and quite a bit more expensive. Just check it to make sure because if it's just plain 4150 chrome moly steel it will rust like a bastard and may be all green if you pull it out for the next outing after putting it away "wet"..........Cliff

Welcome from Ohio. Congrats on the new M & P, first one I've seen..........

Yes, and one has to remember that not all Reservists have LE type jobs, although many of ours did. Some were State Police, Detectives and Patrolman, and as mentioned the Chief of Police for Pittsburgh. Sine they are LE types they already have weapons quals with their service stuff, so they come up to speed quickly with Military weapons. The rest of the Reservists had jobs varying from bus drivers to factory workers to school teachers, and everything in between. Even so the vast majority were highly dedicated and devoted to duty and I was proud to serve with them. I retired in 2003 despite some "stop-loss" for personnel with certain Qual Codes, HH and HL were among them. I needed to go, 20 years and responsible for hundreds of thousands of rounds down range had taken a toll on my hearing. The constant ringing haunts me to this day.........Cliff

Was grocery shopping today and thought about this recipe. Deb whipped it up for dinner........AWESOME......and highly recommended!.....Cliff

"Nice set ups! 100 yard target?" Yes, 5 rounds thru each weapon at 100 yards. The PSA shoots very well, likes the big Barnes bullets. I could probably tighten up the groups a little with a little bigger scope with more magnification, but I topped it with a 2-7 Leupold to save weight. The first two rounds are pretty much in the same hole bottom center, the next two went up and to the right again almost in the same hole, then the fifth round went up to 12 o'clock. Probably shooter error as my eyes aren't nearly as good as they used to be and I have trouble with focusing using glasses and scopes. I also shot the PSA at 200 and 300 yards and did a rapid fire target at 300 yards right at dusk the same day but didn't take any pics of them......Cliff

PSA ran complete AR-15 rifle kits over the holidays for $259 with free shipping. They had black, olive drab green and flat dark earth. Not the better chrome lined hammer forged barrels, just standard 4150 Chrome-Moly Vanadium nitrided stuff. Still not a bad deal, just needs teamed up with a decent lower and sights.........Cliff

You are most welcome. Had a blast as I was a SAI for most of that 20 years. Here's a pic of my PA-10 after a few mods on the scales w/o a mag. It actually weighs less as I forgot to remove the M-1 Garand cleaning kit from the stock. Before I went to Colorado I removed the cleaning kit and put some survival stuff in there that was much lighter so it will come in about 9.5 lbs w/o the mag. Pic of my DPMS as well but didn't get a weight on it. Also a group from them before we left for the trip..........Cliff

"SW Pennsylvania, This area is about an hour south east of Pittsburgh" I spent my last tour in Pittsburgh Pa, retired from there in 2003. Even had to build an Armory there shortly after 9-11 to store weapons/ammunition to train all the Active Duty folks and 80 something Reservists. The Chief of Police at that time actually came on Active Duty and worked with us. Using his connections we also used the Police range out near the zoo. We also used a range once in a while about an hour South of Pittsburgh, pretty sure it was off Route 51, not to far South of Interstate 70. Pretty country down that way for sure, rolling hills, etc......small World.......Cliff

Very good advice! I built my first 308 AR specifically for hunting Elk out West. I wanted to upgrade to a modern weapon with quick back-up shots and pretty much weatherproof. I'd been using a Marlin model 1895 in 45/70. Very effective on Elk but it is heavy and was taking a beating so I wanted a more durable platform and something that didn't require much attention getting rain and snow covered with extreme temp changes, etc. When I finally got my first 308 AR finished it was much heavier than I had hoped for. Shot well but with a loaded magazine it's a "pig" far a weight is concerned. PSA briefly ran some of their PA-10 uppers on the website with 14.7" (welded flash hider) barrels so I grabbed one and built another rifle. You wouldn't think that taking a few inches off the barrel would be a big deal, but it's significant. It changes the entire weapon making it easier to carry, improved balance, and lighter. To me it's a pretty big deal because we hunt in very thick cover, rugged terrain, and never under 10,000'. Every ounce in that environment is like a pound back East at 1200' above sea level!........Cliff

"If you are going to carry it, a 20+" barrel gets heavy fast." Really fast if you are getting ready to turn 60 in a few weeks! For me, barrel length and the resulting muzzle velocity really isn't a big player at long range. Sure a couple of hundred extra FPS can work for you at great distances, but it is more important is to work up a load that shoots very tight groups, preferably well under 1" at 100 yards. I'll trade some velocity for accuracy any day of the week. For example, if my go-to load is punching one jagged hole at 100 yards but down around 2500fps compared to a load with the same bullet at 2675fps that's out to 1 1/2" at 100 yards, I'll take the slower load every time. Once you nail down a load that your rifle really likes, do some shooting and nail down the best hold over at 100 yards to keep hits on target from zero out to about 300 yards or so. If you are using optics the distance the scope is from the center of the barrel can be a pretty big player. Once you get the rifle on the money, shooting tight groups and know the "dope" from 100 to 300 yards, then start shooting longer distances, see where it's at and take good notes. I wouldn't let barrel length set any limitations for me for one of these rifles, and very, and I mean very few shots are made beyond 300 yards or so in hunting scenarios for big game. Of course if you are paper punching only with a lot of shooting in that 800 to 1000 yard arena, and weight, bulk and length of the rifle are NOT a factor, then buy the longest and heaviest profile barrel you can manage........Cliff

"Trigger jerk, recoil anticipation and heeling were three things I always trained people for prior to pistol qual. By watching where their own impacts land, they could identify what they were doing wrong, recognize that, and make corrections for it." I covered those things during the Pre-Fire, then again individually during the "sighting in" and practice rounds. A few minutes spent with troubled shooters saved countless hours of additional range time and ammunition. Shortly after 9-11 we (SAI) were tasked with training tens of thousands of Reservists when the came on Active Duty. Sometimes we would bring them to where I was, other times they would fly me to their location. I typically had groups of 20-35 or so and had to train them on three weapons, M-16, M9 and Shotgun. I had a few that would shoot poorly on purpose, thinking they would be getting a cushy job Stateside instead of sent over to the sand lot. I told them that IF they didn't qualify they would most likely get jobs unloading supplies in the heat, instead of standing guard duty and such, and without weapons quals they would have to use their knife to defend themselves if things went to chit. You'd be surprised how quickly their scores would improve!..........Cliff

"17 pounds? My preban Match HBAR isn’t 9 unloaded! " Curiosity got the best of me, weighed mine today, it's a Rock River Match upper, Wylde chamber, no sling or magazine, just under 9 lbs.......Cliff

Since this is a 308 ammo topic I'll add this. Back in the 1980's Federal supplied a lot of ammunition to the Military. So did Lake City and Olin. Lake City is top shelf, Olin not too bad. Federal, at that time was "bottom of the barrel". Especially their 12 gauge 00 Buck loads. I could fire five rounds from 50 yards at the target, walk down and only have a hand full of hits center mass. Take the same 870, load it with Winchester and fire 5 rounds and obliterate the target with nearly every pellet accounted for. Never did figure out that deal but we avoided Federal ammo, especially for training. We'd leave it in the bunker until Servicewide messages came out to expend it, then all the instructors would have a Range day, which of course included a cook out and adult beverages afterward.......

The M9 is a Pistol you love to hate. Ugly, bulky, wimpy caliber but they are very accurate and reliable. Our 45's were old and a high percentage of them needed to be replaced. They were "sloppy" and unreliable. The slides on many of them spent quite a bit of time in the big vise in the Armory and we "peened" a lot of the frames, then hand fitted them back together to tighten them up some. Beyond that we didn't mess with too much, and left the trigger pulls heavy and creepy, stock feed ramps, etc. Even so you I couldn't run a single relay without multiple failures to feed, jamming up/stove piping, etc. All the instructors were also armorers and we knew how to build Match grade weapons, but you have to be careful applying your skills to Service grade weapons, if someone gets hurt and you "modified" them in any way your head could end up on the chopping block. The Beretta's were dead solid reliable. Very rare to have any troubles on the firing line at all with them. The biggest PITA was that the Marksmanship and PPC course was written for a weapon with a 7 round magazine. Our magazines were not marked at 7 rounds so when you loaded them close attention was needed so you put the right number of rounds in them. I put in a "beneficial suggestion" to modify the course for fully loaded magazines and until it was adopted I made up a "jig" and drilled a hole in all our magazines in the precise location so when they were being loaded you knew when they had 7 rounds in them. When the M9's showed up I was already shooting 45 in Competition and knew the accuracy they were capable of, plus all rounds were single action. I could shoot the entire 50 round PPC course from the 50 yard line with any of the better 45's and pass it with 225 or higher (250 max score). The Beretta's proved to be very accurate and I could shoot as well as or better with them for either course, and pass both from the 50 yard line as well. From an instructions perspective the M9's really cut down range time and much easier to qualify entry level personnel. Less recoil and the bullet gets out the barrel quicker so jerking the trigger and "anticipation" had less effect on how far off the mark the rounds would go. With a 45 if you anticipate very much at all the worms in the dirt in front of the target are putting up little white flags! The same shooter with an M9 piston is shooting them target in the groin or just to the right or left of it. The Beretta got the contract because of the price, not because it passed the testing better than the other participants......at least that is what we were told. I'd have rather had the Sig, or even the M & P's over the Beretta.......FWIW.......Cliff

If any of you even get the opportunity do a Bourbon tour in Kentucky. We did one two years ago, rented a van in Cincinnati and headed South. My daughter was pregnant at the time so volunteered to be the DD. First stop Four Roses, then made two more stops and ended up at Buffalo Trace. Don't remember all the details as we consumed a considerable amount of Bourbon on that trip, but the tours were great with a nice reward waiting for you at the end of each one. According to the Master distiller's we talked to the Oak barrels are stored in large buildings and some have many levels. They are not only moved periodically they are often taken to different levels during the waiting process to control temperatures. Very interesting stuff, especially considering you have to wait many years to see the fruit of your efforts.........Cliff