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Yep, Chuck is one hell of a Marine Sniper Legend. What a stud.

Ron is my Numbah Wun, squared...

You get that Win Mag down here with those good 220s, brother, and we're gonna get you on that Mile target. You'll hit a target that's not even 1 MOA wide at that distance.

I'll try to reach out to Jon, see if he can make it up here. I'm not sure if he's still in Tucson or not, but I'll give it a shot.

Kinda of weird to think about it, but next year will be 80 years ago. I learned about it in History class in high school, and I don't know where the time went. That was truly the Greatest Generation.

Another one from tonight...

Looks like they're trying to revive this. From 3 years ago. Now, it's a Cessna, not as violent, and not near as effective. It's "RAES" now. "Rapid Aerial Extraction System" I'n not seeing the "rapid extraction" part of this test, though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSqHO5j_VGg (And, YT "doesn't allow the embedding of that video..." Fuqrs. Click it. It's pretty boring - it ain't no Fulton Recovery System...)

That happened, back in the day. It was called the Fulton Extraction System, or Fulton Recovery System. Common names. It was all CIA-ish, and they named it the "STARS system." Surface-To-Air-Recovery-System System. Redundancy intentional, coming to you from the Department Of Redundancy Department. Here's the rundown on it. Use a C-130 to yank a guy off the ground, to get him out of Bad-Guy Zones. There wasn't a live extraction performed for years and years, but I was in a position to volunteer to be the first live dumbass to try this in 1995 - I was turned down... There was a pile of us that wanted to do this - we all lost the Air Force Special Operations Vote on that one, because they didn't want the liability...

Both those were badass. I want another season of Terminal List.

I like your style...

Here's more information from 5 hours ago. One more. It's gonna be really hard for BATFE to enforce "The Rule" on Regular Americans that are not part of the organizations that are protected by all these injunctions - I think there are 5 now?.... Kinda hard for Americans that are members of organizations being protected, while all other Americans that are NOT members of those organizations becoming Felons... Unconstitutional. Where's NRA on all this?... Hmmm... Crickets, from NRA...

If plants are so good, then why are they always trying to make them taste like MEAT?!!?

That's just the info used to present the information, brother. The issue is understanding External Ballistics. Internal Ballistics are everything that happens inside the gun - your ammo, your parts, or your handload for example... that all happens inside, before projectile leaves barrel. External Ballistics are everything that happens once the projectile leaves the barrel. We can do 9mm PCCs, too. Let's get a barrel length, bullet grain weight and a muzzle velocity, and get after it.

I'd rather have a C-130 with @Rsquared flying it, but I'll say - that is one badass aircraft. EDIT - I wish Ron knew how to fly C-17s. We'd be unstoppable. C-130s get the job done quite well, though.

I guarantee you, if you have to clear a small space or a large building across some significant distance - like Dickens had to do at that mall shooting... Nobody is gonna be questioning you on tactics or holds, hold over or hold under, whatever... Just know your gun... It's all gonna come back to the Number 1 Rule in CQB... "Yeah, but did it look cool?..." For real.

FWIW, you can "CQB" any gun you have, even magnified optics, if they go down low enough. 3x minimum, which sucks at short distances. 4x, gonna be really hard. I have a 2~12, and on 2x, it's easy. Illuminated reticles help greatly - don't focus through the scope, just pick up the illuminated center like it was a red dot, and run both eyes open. If you zero 100 yards (most magnified optics), then you're 2.5" high at the muzzle - that's the scope height over bore height on most ARs / gas guns. Most bolt guns are 1.5" height over bore. What's 2.5" of height, at that distance, if you're clearing your house? Doesn't mean anything for a center mass shot. Vital zone on a deer is 7". Vital zone on a coyote and pig/boar is 5". Vital zone on a human is very similar to a deer. Just make center mass shots, if it comes to that, and don't over-think it. Run the gun. Train with the gun, and run the gun.

The EOTech basic reticle - they do some crazy shiit now - but the common 65 MOA circle with the 1 MOA center dot. This one: If you set that center dot for a 50y~200y Zero - here's the beauty in this reticle - that bottom 6 o'clock hash is zero'd for 7 yards. 21 feet. The perfect CQB distance. That's just the design of that reticle, and it's on purpose. You can have a short gun with a red dot that's on the money at 50 and 200 yards, little hold over for longer distances, and it's money inside a big room, right on the money. Just hold that bottom hash mark. Completely intentional from the manufacturer.

The Nerd Math is the lynch pin in all this, brother - doesn't matter if it's target shooting, hunting, or combat. The US Army zero's fixed sight 20" guns at the 25m~300m zero range - because that's Maximum Point Blank Range for a 62gr from a 1:7" twist 5.56 20" barrel. It's just hunting information, but they don't explain that to you in the Army... I did - I got it across to the people I had to train. Better aim LOW on the 50m target, too - like aim at his nuts... Everything else is hold-shoot. The 50y~200y Zero is great, for irons or optics (especially for hunters). The 36y Zero is the best, IMHO, for irons or scopes-and-hunters. Can't go wrong with the 36y Zero. No matter what caliber, with no other testing, it's gonna give you about the longest MPBR for a gun, bolt, gas, doesn't matter.

I summary of all this, and what I'm trying to get across, he nailed it - this guy is my point, exactly. For hunting, shot placement is key, and he nailed it every single time with a 5.56 gun. Every time. The key to 55gr 5.56 working in combat is fragmentation. Without fragmentation, you're shooting an icepick at something, and hoping that neat little hole hits THE vital organ - the heart. Obviously, this guy was doing that, and dropped them all. That's perfect shot placement, and you can do that all the way to the transonic barrier - with great shot placement. I've done a horrible job in this thread, with my intended purpose, and getting it going, logically, from the beginning - but it's getting there! Thanks to all of you, and not to me. Keep it going, men!

God's little feathered helicopters right there. I love them, and have feeders here for them. Nice pics, brother!

Just in case anybody thinks that's just some image I pulled off the internet, I have this pic for you...

Yep, perfect, and I remember this story. 55gr, yes, that was the example. I'm a firm proponent that you can kill anything with it, but many people (and state hunting laws) don't agree with that, just based on it's .224 caliber. That's just stupid, on those states parts, but I get it - stupid hunters are all over, just doing what they do, out in the woods. Now, 55gr -fragmentation is the key to that thing performing, militarily. That's based on a 12" thick human body. All the Doc Roberts data is out there. For smaller critters, the 55gr is gonna kill it, explode it, basically. For larger animals, even up to elk, it's all about shot placement, and shot placement is key. You heart-shot a big animal, and you get the penetration - from the speed of a 55gr - well, it's not going far, if at all, if it has no more fuel pump. It drops. You miss a little bit, and lung it, or double lung it - that fucker is running. It's running until it has no more oxygen, and then it drops. That can be a couple hundred yards, and you need to track it. With a 55gr, it's GOING all the way through, and leaving the other side, so you'll have a blood trail to track. But, now you're tracking. Same thing with bow-hunting. Just a little off, and it's not heart, it's lungs, and you're now a tracker. Spot last blood. Spot last sign. Now, we were just hunting. All the sudden, we're tracking. Spot placement is always the key to hunting. You want it to be perfect. If it isn't perfect, be ready to track. Militarily, they brought back combat tracking around 18 years ago (early 2005). I was in the first two pilot courses for that training, Level 1 and Level 2. Badass courses that teach you how to track humans - but it's no different than tracking animals, when you're hunting. As a kid, I fucked a few shots up - and had to find my animal. I had to learn the hard way. We had an unofficial tab for that course, given at the end it it all. I'm more proud of that than anything else I ever did in the military.

I've talked about this before, and it's searchable. Auditory Exclusion. Your body and mind are an amazing machine. It comes up in this vid. Start about 8:30 in this vid if you want to skip right to it.