2 Bolts, 2 Barrels, 2 Sets of Headspace Gauges

[Flabbergasted]

I'm totally confused. I purchased a barrel and bcg that was headspaced to the barrel. Shot it several times and decided I wanted a different barrel. So I bought new barrel installed it and also bought a bolt from the manufacturer of said barrel. I also bought headspace gauges and checked the new barrel and new bolt headspace and found that the bolt closes on the No go gauge. I decided to try the gauges on the old barrel that had the headspace checked by the manufacturer and the bolt closes on the no go gauge. I thought the problem was with the gauges so I sent them back and bought a different brand. I tried them today and I have the exact same results. Not sure what's going on. 

Also, I called a local gunsmith prior to all this to see how much it would be for him to check the headspace and he said there was no need to and that it's safe to shoot. Not sure what to do. If I were to shoot it, how soon would I know there was a headspace issue? Would it blow up right away?

[MikedaddyH]

5 minutes ago, Flabbergasted said:

I'm totally confused. I purchased a barrel and bcg that was headspaced to the barrel. Shot it several times and decided I wanted a different barrel. So I bought new barrel installed it and also bought a bolt from the manufacturer of said barrel. I also bought headspace gauges and checked the new barrel and new bolt headspace and found that the bolt closes on the No go gauge. I decided to try the gauges on the old barrel that had the headspace checked by the manufacturer and the bolt closes on the no go gauge. I thought the problem was with the gauges so I sent them back and bought a different brand. I tried them today and I have the exact same results. Not sure what's going on. 

Also, I called a local gunsmith prior to all this to see how much it would be for him to check the headspace and he said there was no need to and that it's safe to shoot. Not sure what to do. If I were to shoot it, how soon would I know there was a headspace issue? Would it blow up right away?

Find a different gunsmith. Leave the first setup alone and get the second barrel done properly. Dont use the Bolt from the first barrel in the second barrel. The barrel to barrel extension must be redone to exact specs. That means taken apart and metal removed then reassembled and checked again till it is right. If not repeat the process over until its right. The headspace is checked with the go-gauge installed in the bcg in the upper receiver.

There is a headspace issue. It won't blow up. It would be best to have it done right.

 

[survivalshop]

 Whats the caliber marked on the barrel & what caliber are the gages ?

7.62x51 Nato Chamber & 308 gages or vice versa , will cause Gage reading issues , not to mention the hybrid Chambers that are being used to be able to shoot both Nato & Commercial 308 ammo , can cause issues with how Head Space is read .

[Flabbergasted]

8 hours ago, MikedaddyH said:

Find a different gunsmith. Leave the first setup alone and get the second barrel done properly. Dont use the Bolt from the first barrel in the second barrel. The barrel to barrel extension must be redone to exact specs. That means taken apart and metal removed then reassembled and checked again till it is right. If not repeat the process over until its right. The headspace is checked with the go-gauge installed in the bcg in the upper receiver.

There is a headspace issue. It won't blow up. It would be best to have it done right.

 

Yeah, I could tell that gunsmith didn't want to bother with checking headspace. I might just send the barrel back.

[Flabbergasted]

3 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 Whats the caliber marked on the barrel & what caliber are the gages ?

7.62x51 Nato Chamber & 308 gages or vice versa , will cause Gage reading issues , not to mention the hybrid Chambers that are being used to be able to shoot both Nato & Commercial 308 ammo , can cause issues with how Head Space is read .

Both barrel and headspace gauges are marked .308. The thing that really confuses me is that when I checked the headspace on the barrel and bolt that were supposedly checked for headspace by the manufacturer, it fails the NO GO test.

[98Z5V]

How are you checking it?

[Flabbergasted]

13 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

How are you checking it?

For the old barrel, I removed the bolt from carrier, removed ejector and extractor, placed gauge in the chamber, inserted the bolt and turned.

For the new barrel, since it's installed, I did the same to the bolt only I left it in the carrier and slowly pushed it forward with the gauge in the chamber. It easily closes on the no go gauge. Both brands.

[98Z5V]

Damn, you're definitely doing it right. 

[survivalshop]

  You need to find out if its hybrid Chamber from there Manufacturer , because if its cut different , you may need to have their custom made Gage's to test properly  & if it is , its doubtful they will tell you what it is . 

  The chances of you getting two sets of bad gages or two barrels that read the same with two different gages are very low . Are the barrels from the same manufacturer ?

Edited March 4, 2017 by survivalshop

[Flabbergasted]

They are both from two separate manufacturers. The new barrel is labeled as .308 chamber, both on the website and on the barrel itself. I bought the new barrel from Brownells so they can make it right either way. I'm going to give them a call.

[98Z5V]

Pick up a FIELD gauge. Might be hard to find one.  That's militarily used to check in-service chambers - that fail the No-Go.  You can still run a military rifle that fails No-Go, as long as it doesn't fail the Field Gauge.  Once it does, it gets re-barreled.

However, as SS stated above - find out what chamber the barrel manufacturer cut in that thing first, or you'll chase your tail on this.  If it's truly a .308 Win chamber, and not some hybrid chamber, then find a Field gauge. 

EDIT - for clarity, finding a 7.62 NATO Field gauge might not be that hard.  Find a .308 Win Field gauge might be tough... 

Edited March 4, 2017 by 98Z5V

[jtallen83]

Here is a source for a 308 winchester field gauge, they do not stock them but will make one when you order;

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/imperial-and-related-wildcats-headspace-gauges-nopix-/11690-308-winchester-headspace-gauge.html#/151-choose_gauge_type-field_gauge_brown

[Flabbergasted]

Will do. Thanks for all the info.

[Flabbergasted]

So I contacted Brownells about the barrel I bought from them and I spoke to technical support about the barrel not passing the no go test. The tech said that the manufacturer makes sure every barrel is headspaced correctly and that it is safe to shoot. I was told that different manufacturers use different gauges to check head space. They weren't able to tell me what the headspace gauge size was. I'm tempted to just shoot the thing. 

Like I said previously, my other barrel and bolt were headspaced from the manufacturer, with what gauges I don't know, but that barrel and bolt failed the no go gauge test.

[survivalshop]

 Are you using a NIB coated Bolt ?

[survivalshop]

HEADSPACE GAGE INSTRUCTIONS

The Forster Headspace Gage is designed to ensure accurate testing of chamber headspace. Headspace is the distance between the face of the breech and the base of the cartridge when the action is closed. Safety and accuracy are threatened when excessive headspace exists.

For best results with bolt action rifles, remove the extractor from the bolt. The bolt must work freely in the receiver. It is impossible to have the proper feel for a gage if the bolt is tight or sticky.

Insert the proper gage into the action. Attempt to close the bolt on the gage. CAUTION — Never force the bolt closed on a gage. A rifle with correct headspace should close easily and without feel on the GO gage, but should not close on the FIELD gage. If it does close on the NO-GO gage, but not on the FIELD gage, the rifle may still be serviceable. However, it is not advisable to use it for best accuracy with factory ammunition. CAUTION — Any rifle that will close on the field gage may have dangerously excessive headspace and should not be fired under any circumstances.

Three lengths of Headspace Gages are available per caliber:

GO length — This checks the rifle to see that the chamber will accept the cartridges made to maximum SAAMI specifications.

NO-GO length — This is used by most gunsmiths as a maximum headspace gage when chambering a rifle’s headspace dimension. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gage, it may have excessive headspace. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gage, it may still be within the SAAMI Rifle Chamber tolerance. Next, it should be checked with a FIELD gage.

FIELD length — If a rifle closes on a FIELD length gage, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI’s specified maximum chamber size. This is the longest of the three gage lengths.

Custom-length Forster gages are available. A grinding fee will apply. Call, fax, or e-mail us with inquiries for special gages.

GO, NO-GO, and FIELD length Headspace Gages are available in the following calibers:

For rimless calibers — 22 PPC, 220 Swift, 222 Rem., 222 Rem. Mag., 22-250 Rem., 223 Rem., 243 Win., 244 Rem., 250 Sav., 25-06 Rem., 257 Rob., 270 Win., 6mm PPC, 6.5 x 55 SKAN, 6.5 x 55 Swede, 7mm-08 Rem., 7mm Mauser, 280 Rem., 284 Win., 30 Carbine M1, M1A1, M2, M3, 30-06, 308 Win., 8mm x 57 Mauser, 358 Win.

For rimmed calibers — 219 Wasp & Zipper, 22 Rimfire, 22 Sav. H.P., 25-35, 275 Mag., 303 Br., 300 Mag., 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 32 Win. Sp., 32-40, 375 Mag., 38-55, 30 Carbine.

Thank you for purchasing a Forster Precision Product. Please wear safety glasses.

Forster Catalogs are available upon request.

HG001-001 Rev. 2 

[Flabbergasted]

7 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 Are you using a NIB coated Bolt ?

No I am not. 

[Flabbergasted]

I went ahead and shot the barrel to see if any of the cases had indications of a headspace issue. From what I can tell there doesn't appear to be any glaring indication. The pictures compare three spent casings to a loaded one. 

Regardless, without being able to know for certain the exact chambering of the barrel because Brownells doesn't know and Satern won't respond to my inquiry, a brand new barrel that won't pass the NO GO gauge is unexceptable to me. I'm not going to spend extra money and buy a field gauge to check the headspace. It would make sense to do so on a used a barrel but not on a brand new barrel. From what I can gather, the accuracy of the barrel might be degraded because it won't pass NO GO. I'm going to send it back before I waste more time with it. I got a 20" heavy fluted Faxon barrel instead. 10% off this weekend from Optics Planet. I've heard good things about Faxon's barrels.

[survivalshop]

   Looks like its showing high pressure signs , cratered primers around firing Pin strike .Could be just hot ammo , but its hard to tell , it also looks like the Primers are showing unseating , which if they are , is another sign of High pressure . They should reseat when case is forced back when fired , high pressure will not let that happen .

  This effect could be caused by a Head Spacing issue or just hot loaded ammo , COL or case too long .

[washguy]

Flab    Why Satern for a barrel?        Wash

Edited March 20, 2017 by washguy

[survivalshop]

 Also look closely at the Base of the spent cases , looks like pressure ring at the web.

[Flabbergasted]

1 hour ago, washguy said:

Flab    Why Satern for a barrel?        Wash

At the time the price was right for me. Also, I liked the specs of the barrel. I figured since I'm buying it from Brownells I could return it if I didn't like it. So, little risk in the purchase.

[Flabbergasted]

14 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

 Also look closely at the Base of the spent cases , looks like pressure ring at the web.

I saw that too but I wasn't  sure if that's what that was. I'm new to all this so I don't have much experience.

[44Dave]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:38 PM, 98Z5V said:

 

EDIT - for clarity, finding a 7.62 NATO Field gauge might not be that hard.  Find a .308 Win Field gauge might be tough... 

This is what Fulton sold me for their "hybrid" (.308/7.62 finished chamber) chamber:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspacegaugesetfchambergonogoandfield3083-piece.aspx

marked 308 and contains a Field gauge.