Palmetto PA-10 failure to eject

[W.E.G.]

2 hours ago, W.E.G. said:

A couple rapid-fire targets that score pretty well, even if the groups are nothing to get excited about. Rapid fire prone time limit is 70 seconds, although I shot it in about 57 seconds. Rapid fire prone time limit is 60 seconds – needed almost all of that time. Magazine-change in each rapid-fire string. Magazines loaded five-and-five.

Meant to say rapid fire SITTING  time limit is 60 seconds. 

Always with the details.

[W.E.G.]

I think I’m at about 700 rounds on the Palmetto bolt.

 

It is apparent that the corners of the bolt-lugs are wearing more with each outing. So, there is less “face” on the bolt lug engaging with the lugs on the barrel extension. I had hoped that this wear-behavior would settle down such that the bolt would have reached its happy medium. Its clear to me now, that isn’t going to happen. This bolt is just going to keep giving up more-and-more of the corners of the bolt lugs until something gives out.

 

I’d be curious to know how this bolt might ultimately fail. I’ve never actually broken a bolt on an AR-type rifle (if you don’t include the incident with the pierced-primer damage from the thin CCI 400 primers in 5.56 some twenty years ago.). I’m at the point where running this bolt further is just going to be about as interesting as the time in 1977 when I loaded-up a gas can, and drove my car on the highway to see how low the gas gauge would go before the car literally ran out of gas. As it turned out, that adventure was a whole lot of inconvenience, and not very interesting. Hoping that I’ve learned my lesson at this point in my life, I’m not going to keep pushing this bolt until it causes me a wasted range trip.

 

As of this morning, I have a Toolcraft BCG inbound. I ordered the one with the dual ejectors and the small firing pin. $159 for the whole shebang seemed reasonable. If for some reason it doesn’t work out, at least I’ll be able to tell it from the other AR-10 parts that seem to be multiplying around here.

 

Here’s some pics of the Palmetto bolt after about 700 rounds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shooterrex]

You had a different bolt in that rifle for a short time if I remember right. What does it look like. Send that puppy back to PSA. At least you will have a spare.

[W.E.G.]

10 minutes ago, shooterrex said:

You had a different bolt in that rifle for a short time if I remember right. What does it look like. Send that puppy back to PSA. At least you will have a spare.

The other bolt I used for one outing was the bolt from my DPMS LR-308-T. I probably fired no more than 20 rounds with that bolt. It looks normal to me. I think I may have also fired about 20 rounds with a bolt I got from Fulton Armory.  I tested with those bolts when I was in the "Why the hell does this thing just not work at all" mode.

I may send the Palmetto bolt back to PSA if I can get some assurance that they will exchange it for one of the Toolcraft BCG assemblies they are purportedly furnishing with the Generation 3 PA-10 guns. My concern is that they would just send me an un-used Gen 1 or Gen 2 BCG assembly. Its not worth my time to deal with PSA just to exchange a weathered turd for a fresh turd.

Edited August 12, 2019 by W.E.G.

[98Z5V]

That right there is heinous - and it's a problem with the heat-treat on that bolt.

Sheared bolt lugs are in that thing's future...:

 

 

[W.E.G.]

Shooting the PA-10 a little more today.

 

Still shooting the beat-up Palmetto bolt.

 

TLDR version:

PA-10 shoots consistently low/high. Testing today indicates that the problem is not the scope.

 

 

If you’ve been following this thread, you’ve read my comments about how the rifle seems to disperse shots high/low more than I care for. I became concerned that perhaps the cause of the vertical dispersion was the Leupold Mark AR scope.

 

Today I tested the Leupold scope on the PA-10, and also tested the same scope-and-mount on a well-worn (~5000 round-count) White Oak 5.56 (Wilson barrel) service rifle upper. The Larue quick-detach mount allowed me to easily move the scope from the PA-10 to the White Oak.

 

I scanned the targets below from the backside of each target so as to show the group-size, and to avoid the visual distraction of the scoring rings of the targets. But, speaking of the scoring rings, my observation is that the PA-10, equipped with the Larue scope, kicks shots low and high about one full scoring ring more than what I typically get when I shoot the same scope on a White Oak 5.56 gun. Target used for testing was the MR31 target (600 yard National Match target reduced for 100 yards).

 

There is one especially high shot on the PA-10 target. I called that shot high when I fired it. I didn’t think it would land THAT high, but full-disclosure, I called that shot high. Further in keeping with “full disclosure” I fired two shots before I touched adjustment knobs. The first two shots were a little higher within the scoring rings than I wanted to see. So, after the first two shots, I dialed it down 2 clicks (each click worth 0.1 mil – which is one-third of an inch per click on the 100-yard target). I didn’t touch the elevation after that initial adjustment. The first two shots are fairly centered in the 18-shot group you see in the pic. After that single elevation-adjustment, the remaining 16 shots danced high/low with no particular rhyme or reason other than that one called-high shot I mentioned.

 

Hard to say what causes the PA-10 to print low/high all the time. I previously examined the barrel/receiver fit – even removed the barrel from the receiver – and the fit seems really tight. Maybe its something to do with the bolt. Although, the high/low issue was evident before the bolt got so chewed up. Current round-count on the PA-10 is about 700 rounds.

 

I suppose the next outing I will try the new Toolcraft bolt/carrier assembly and see if it has any effect on the high/low issue. I can’t think of a good reason WHY changing bolt/carrier would make any difference. But, not much to lose by trying I suppose. If changing the bolt/carrier doesn’t make a difference, I’ll try lapping the upper receiver. I have the kit. If that doesn’t solve the high/low problem with this rifle, I’m not sure I’m motivated to invest in a high-end barrel just to see what happens. My future with this rifle has limits. So, at least two more range trips to try to “get it to shoot.” The beat goes on…

 

 

 

[DVW]

I've got a PSA-10, and am having the exact same problem with the rifle ejecting/with the exact upper. After reading/skimming through this forum I have two questions before I go and spend money. 

1. Was there a reason you took the Fulton Bolt out and just used the Palmetto with a Fulton Extractor? 

2. Would the Fulton Bolt be fine? Or is there a different bolt that is recommended? I've noticed Palmetto won't say what style bolt they are using and just say it's proprietary.

I'll be ordering the true rifle length  gas tube as well. Anything else I should consider or might have missed? 

[Bluedog225]

First post.  

I registered to say thanks for this thread.  

I’ve got a Gen-2 PSA I’ve had for several years but only a few rounds through it.  This is a great overview of issues to address to get it up to speed.  If nothing else, it will be a good gun to learn on.

 

[W.E.G.]

Sorry for being absentee in this thread. I sold the upper some months ago to a fella on ARFCOM who had taken a keen interest in it. I didn't shoot the Fulton bolt in the gun enough to reach a conclusion based on evidence as to whether that Gen 2 barrel (extension) would have eaten-up the Fulton Bolt. The Fulton bolt seemed to weather the brief experience testing without issue. I just kept using the Palmetto bolt because I was curious and reckless. I wanted to see how bad it could get. Indeed it was VERY BAD.

Traded the lower to a buddy for some bullets.

I probably would have kept the upper for the heck of it if I thought time would allow me to do anything more with it. With a decent bolt, I think it would have been fine as a UTILITY rifle. I just didn't want to spend the big coin to install a different barrel altogether, and with some notion that it might shoot better groups. The Palmetto barrel was never going to group as well as I can hold. Which made that the last nail in the coffin for the project from my standpoint.

I am blessed/cursed with PLENTY other "utility rifles" to play with. I think about that Palmetto rifle from time to time. But not usually for very long.

I hope my experience and comments posted in this forum are of interest and entertainment to all. If I achieve that, the project was a relative success.

Edited October 6, 2020 by W.E.G.

[Candid]

I just finished reading this thread.  Timely that W.E.G.  would offer a conclusion only a few hours ago.

I learned a lot! 

Of course,  with knowledge comes responsibility.  Now I'll be looking at gas tube lengths, extractor springs, ejector heads and engagement lug wear.....

Oh,  And Targets!  😉

 

Good stuff... Thanks

[98Z5V]

10 hours ago, W.E.G. said:

Sorry for being absentee in this thread. I sold the upper some months ago to a fella on ARFCOM who had taken a keen interest in it.

Would be very ironic if his username was bfoosh. 

[Radioactive]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Would be very ironic if his username was bfoosh. 

History?

[W.E.G.]

Yeah.

something like that

I suck at keeping track of names. Not that it’s relevant, but I’m better at remembering smells.

[98Z5V]

15 hours ago, Radioactive said:

History?

BIG History.  Had a three-way phonecall with him one time, and he didn't know that I was the 3-way.  After he threatened to get his lawyers after me for what I said about his comments online...  Wanted to "get his lawyers after me" for what I posted here, that didn't reflect what he was stating...  HAAAA!!!!  I'm SO IN on that!@!!!  

...aaand DEN?!          ...that's when I let him know that I was on the line.  Too.   Bring your lawyers, whiner.

Didn't work out too pretty.  Didn't phase me, not in the least, but I never had any of his lawyer-threats show up at my door.  He's a BIG PSA FanBoi, super-proponent of them, Giant PSA Ass-Kisser, and all their shiit is perfect, out of the box.  I disproved that theory, time and time again, right here.  He's big - or his followers are big - on THR. One of his followers or fan-bois over there doesn't like me, and he's JUST like bfoosh.  That guy doesn't come here for .308AR info, though - he just spouts his own nonsense over there.  He gives really bad info, by the way.  Just another troll and fan-boi bullshiit-reproducer.  No facts learned on your own - just spout what you heard. 

Good luck, THR users,on accurate .308AR information.  Hopefully, some of you show up here, when your problems aren't fixed over there.  We welcome you. 

Build a couple of these things, in more than one caliber, and you'll quickly find out - what the facts are, on this system.  Build a garbage-caliber weapon, shoot garbage ammo, and if it works...   that doesn't make you a "professional" on this platform.  Get out of your box, do your own shiit, build your own shiit, fix all your shiit-parts from manufacturers (and they're all over)... and then comment on this platform...

@bfoosh006, you're more than welcome to drop in here and deliver your recollection of all that.   I'd welcome it.  Bring the pain. Brother. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

On 10/6/2020 at 11:29 AM, W.E.G. said:

Sorry for being absentee in this thread. I sold the upper some months ago to a fella on ARFCOM who had taken a keen interest in it. I didn't shoot the Fulton bolt in the gun enough to reach a conclusion based on evidence as to whether that Gen 2 barrel (extension) would have eaten-up the Fulton Bolt. The Fulton bolt seemed to weather the brief experience testing without issue. I just kept using the Palmetto bolt because I was curious and reckless. I wanted to see how bad it could get. Indeed it was VERY BAD.

Traded the lower to a buddy for some bullets.

I probably would have kept the upper for the heck of it if I thought time would allow me to do anything more with it. With a decent bolt, I think it would have been fine as a UTILITY rifle. I just didn't want to spend the big coin to install a different barrel altogether, and with some notion that it might shoot better groups. The Palmetto barrel was never going to group as well as I can hold. Which made that the last nail in the coffin for the project from my standpoint.

I am blessed/cursed with PLENTY other "utility rifles" to play with. I think about that Palmetto rifle from time to time. But not usually for very long.

I hope my experience and comments posted in this forum are of interest and entertainment to all. If I achieve that, the project was a relative success.

Selling it was probably your best move, man. 

What are you shooting now?

[W.E.G.]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

Selling it was probably your best move, man. 

What are you shooting now?

ALL of it.

No seriously, we've been moving houses, and dealing with weddings, and Form 1's. Plus maybe some of you have heard, there's this CLOVES thing going around. I hear you get it from smoking spiced cigarettes. Sounds inconvenient whatever it is.

And I wish folks would stop dancing on the damn dumpster back of the McDonalds. Eats up too much of my time.

I'm shooting the 1903 Mark 1 in the next match. Would rather not, but my buddy says its mandatory. My other buddy who's left-handed I'm telling he's gotta shoot it too. 10 shots in 70 seconds from sitting position left handed should be worth video.

Got the call today that that one my stamps showed up. Gotta pick that up and stick it on the end of the LR-308.

So, you know, a little this,... a little that,... shrubba. I got a lot of things to do.

[98Z5V]

10 minutes ago, W.E.G. said:

So, you know, a little this,... a little that,... shrubba. I got a lot of things to do.

I LOVE IT!!!  Stay Spicy, brother...