Matt.Cross Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'm in trouble fellas... I called Fulton Armory yesterday and ordered a barrel, which in itself is not so much a problem, but just stick with me here. A little later in the day it occurred to me that I hadn't asked for a matching bolt, and that the barrel would arrive sans a brake. I couldn't have that so I called FA back up and asked them to also send me a Bennie Cooley tactical brake, and a complete Titan bolt. Simple enough, right? Well, today I'm checking out my bank statement and I see that one of my purchases comes up to the barrel amount and another one totaling about $300. I'm thinking to myself, "Dang, $300 is a lot for a bolt...", so I went to the FA store online, fearing that the sales rep thinks I meant the bolt AND bolt carrier. Sure enough, I've purchased the bolt AND carrier. So here's the part where YOU all come in.... What do I need to build around this spare bolt carrier I have? <dontknow> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 16" light(est) weight .308 you can put together. Cut the barrel back enough to pin a YHM QD suppressor mount and still make 16.1", pick up the YHM 762 can for it, and it would be slick as hell. You wouldn't feel guilty about pinning the QD mount, because it won't break the bank anyway, and you wouldn't feel guilty about selling the YHM suppressor later, for the same reason. Eh, giving up some of my plans, I guess... <dontknow> <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 16" light(est) weight .308 you can put together. Cut the barrel back enough to pin a YHM QD suppressor mount and still make 16.1", pick up the YHM 762 can for it, and it would be slick as hell. You wouldn't feel guilty about pinning the QD mount, because it won't break the bank anyway, and you wouldn't feel guilty about selling the YHM suppressor later, for the same reason. Eh, giving up some of my plans, I guess... <dontknow> <laughs>Good recommendation, I have entertained the thought of building a light, carbine-style .308 for shorter range entertainment. I'm thinking a short carbon-wrapped barrel with QD brake/silencer combo, so we're on the same wavelength there too. There are just so many possibilities!Anybody else want to share the aftermath of your brainstorming? I'm opening myself up for suggestions here, so's I can blame y'all for the expenditures and outcome. <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 go smaller, sbr w/ suppressor, ubr stock to offset front end weight, all gadgets and doodads, make it one angry little rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'd be inclined to skip the carbon wrapped barrel on a SBR or even a 14.5" barrel with pinned brake. In my experience you don't save all that much weight over a steel barrel, maybe fluted if you want to get fancy. I have an 18" carbon wrapped barrel that weighs, I think, one pound less the the fluted 14.5" Noveske Afghan barrel. If you've got the cash to spare, then by all means buy the lightest parts and don't even consider price. You could even go with the Christensen carbine length handguard and then you probably would feel the difference, but if your only going to save around 1 lb going CF for the barrel, i think you'd do better to just go with a good quality steel barrel at around 1/2 the price of the CF wrapped. I think the CF barrels really start to make sense when your getting into the longer, or bull profile barrels. Sure wish I could get in on the SBR/suppressor fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Me too, I still say sbr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'd be inclined to skip the carbon wrapped barrel on a SBR or even a 14.5" barrel with pinned brake. Pinning one to get to the legal 16" minimum is going to be around a 13.5" barrel, unlike the 5.56 stuff. Losing 2.5" of barrel would be a pretty decent weight loss, even with a lightweight barrel profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Well yeah, I mean, if you're going to make it an NFA gun, go all the way right? There's no question an SBR is in bounds, but there are other options besides carbon wrapping to lighten it up. You can go with fluting, dimpling, etc. etc... I'm talking specifics though, dream aloud. If I handed you a blank check for this build, what would you build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 My idea is the Kaiser 16" midlength barrel, just so I can cut it down and pin it. 16" rifle gas barrels leave little to cut down, and 16" carbine gas barrels will kick the poop out of you if the gas port isn't just right. It'll end up cut to about 13.5" in order to pin it up to 16" with the YHM suppressor mount FH. ADCO will get the cutting/threading/pinning job.I want it as short as possible, but still 16" overall, just to maintain a little bit of "distance" capability to it, but still keep it short - and I only want one stamp for it (which will be the suppressor). SBR + suppressor = 2 stamps = $400. To me, making it an SBR would be cool, but that's what short 5.56 and short 300BLK guns are for. You need more "oomph?" Then it's 300BLK. Not 7.62x51 - Not since the Black came out in force. My $0.02 on that one.DD rail that will almost cover the barrel, or another Troy MRF 13.8" FDE rail, which would cover the barrel, but not the FH suppressor mount - just what I want. One or the other. Quad rail just for the potential (down the road) to configure it "however. "No custom billet uppers or lowers. None that aren't proven, anyway. Probably just a simple DPMS or Fulton Armory set - they work, and that's a given. CTR or MOE stock, MIAD or MOE grip, bach up sights, and a red dot.Done. Those are my thoughts. Copy if you wish - we encourage cheating in class here... <lmao>So, that's where I'm going next, when I do the next .308 Win rifle. I've got 3 more stripped 5.56 lowers in the safe, and the Mega billet is going to be a 300BLK build. I don't know if I'll build that next, or if the .308 will get built next - it's a coin toss. <dontknow> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I would have to agree that the 300BLK would IMO make a better CQB SBR cartridge than the 7.62X51. The 300 shoots the same projectile as the .308, out of a lighter platform and the ballistics and powder charge seem to be better suited for effective use at closer range. I think that as you continue to make the .308 barrel shorter your ending up with more and more powder that doesn't have enough barrel to impart energy to the bullet. That being said there will always be people that want to take things to the limit. I know that Noveske sells the 12.5" Leonidas barrel (neat video of it in action on their site) so I guess there are some applications where it has a practical use. I don't know what the length of the YHM suppressor mount is but I would think that if you'd prefer not to go for the tax stamp and your going to end up with a 16" minimum barrel length anyway, you should go with as much barrel as possible to give you the best ballistic performance you can get within your desired 16" restriction. I used the Noveske 14.5" Afghan barrel and mounted the BABC 2.5" MB on it. with the thread overlap I ended up with a just under 16.5" barrel length. If the YHM FH/mount is 2.5" or less you may end up being a little shy of 16" with a 13.5" barrel once you take the barrel thread overlap into account. By the way, My 14.5" fluted barreled, carbine with the 14" Noveske rail and ACE Hammer stock is not very light. I'm thinking that if lightness is a priority, you may want to consider a lighter/shorter handguard setup, a lighter barrel profile than the Noveske and definitely a lighter butt stock. The CTR is the lightest adjustable stock I've weighed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'll get back to you tomarrow, caught this to late for my funds unlimited build. and since you said unlimited, two tax stamps for me, Matt's paying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I know with my Fulton 18.5" barrel, it ended up right at 21" overall with the YHM flash suppressor on there - I'm pretty sure their suppressor mount FH is the same length as the regular one for the .308. Ultralight wouldn't be my priority - just a light, but tough, shorter .308. In that thinking, I don't really want the lightest rail out there, just a tough one that doesn't weigh a ton. I'll definitely send the FH with the barrel (and the bolt) to ADCO, and tell them to make the combination exactly 16.1" overall in the pinned configuration. So, based on the before and after lengths with the YHM parts that I've had hands-on, I'm pretty sure the barrel would be close to a cut-length of 13.5" to 13.7". Short and maneuverable is more important to me than light(est) weight. I'd say "lighter" is the secondary goal, with "tough enough to beat on" being the primary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Based on your experience with the Fulton barrel/YHM FH combo, I guess the YHM FH must be 3". Since your giving it to ADCO with the instructions that it be 16" finished, my concern was probably unnecessary. As far as tough, light rails go, I like the DD Lite series rails. Their a little pricey but I have found that they're a couple of oz. lighter than most of the comparable rails, have a narrow width (at least the AR 15's) and the bolt up is rock solid. The Larue rail also has an excellent mounting design, but isn't DPMS thread compatible. The Christensen is still a question mark for me, as I haven't had a chance to handle one, but the idea of the actual rails being made of carbon fiber is something that I'll need to try out for myself before I'm sold. The other rail question that comes to mind, If your planning to run a can, do you intend to have an adjustable GB like the switch block? If so your going to have to make sure the rail length will be compatible to give access to the GB adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm still in the beginning stages of the ultimate plan for this rifle - and it was caused by a barrel for sale, and the on-hand "extra part" being a BCM GF Large .308 charging handle - yep, the handle is doing it... :o I don't want to accidentally lose it, so it needs a home. <laughs>The DD Lite rail is definitely my first choice, depending on lengths available. Something slightly different in the right length would trump that choice, based on what I have going on in my head.Since one of the final goals will be suppressed use, a adjustable gas block is definitely planned, and the Noveske switchblock is my first choice. I need to have all parts in-hand to test compatibility before anything gets sent off to ADCO for final barrel work, so what I'm thinking about might change as time goes on. Test fit of everything will definitely tell the story. I'm not beyond making my own adjustable gas block out of a YHM Specter clamp-on block, either, and that would actually cause my less grief in the long run, because it's one less part that needs to be shipped in the box for barrel work. All these ideas are just an initial thought - an initial concept. I'm sure it will change in one way or another. In the long run, I'll have more parts in-hand that will need to be built into something else... <thumbsup> <lmao> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Woohoo! Small and lightweight! I love it. I've been holding out to respond so I would have time to write. I love this idea. Personally I say stay away from the carbon barrel. I ordered one but I'm still at 17"... Go fort a steel barrel and go for the 16" OAL or shorter. It won't be worth the money for a carbon barrel because it won't cut the weight enought to matter. I also say ditch the .308 and go for the .260 Rem! It'll be much more forgiving in the shorter barrel. Besides that, when was the last time you saw a short 260? I also suggest you take a look at those lightweight Remington R25 barrels and have one of those cut to your preferred length. If we can put a rifle length on a 16", I think a 12.5" mid length barrel would be a lot of fun.As for receivers.... AXTS's "AX762" is just begging to be made into a combat monster. If Kaiser were still around, I'd recommend mating the AX to their left-side charging SWS upper. The Noveske switch block fits well into the SWS hand guard, but a modified YHM Spectre would be sexy as sin. If Vltor would get off their asses, and make a VIS monolithic upper for the 308, I'd suggest that in the absence of the first choice.Triggers are all personal preference. A big meaty grip (MIAD?) will save some of the punishment on your hand. Top off the whole project with a Magpul ACS or VLTOR (IMOD or EMOD) stock. Bling the rifle with a T1 and a set of MBUS and you're done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I took a look at those AXTS lowers, very nice, but $429 for a stripped 5.56 lower (which is what I'm interested in) is kind of out there. Hopefully it will come down in price once it's been out for a while. I do like that it's marked multi instead of 5.56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I absolutely LOVE that it is marked "multi". I live in Cali, so having the ambi-mag release means no bullet button. That means I'll be making a dedicated .22lr to match my new "Catch-22" bolt catch. <thumbsup>That also means that, since i havent picked a barrel yet, my Mega Ar15 might end up a 300aac instead of 5.56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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