New and need help - 260 rem cycling problem

[RedRiverII]

Radioactive,  I hope you get this settled soon.  I am following this thread for similar challenges on one of mine,  well my nephew's rifle.  Thanks for posting.

[98Z5V]

On 11/2/2019 at 1:06 PM, Radioactive said:

Carbine or should I say collapsible is 7 inch tube 11 3/8” spring 3.9 oz buffer 2.5” long

fixed A2 has 9 5/8” tube 12 5/8” spring and 5.4 oz buffer that is 5 1/4” long

those should be Lr 308 compatible 

20 rounds is not much but I thought it should at least cycle enough to lock back

i don’t have a clue what size gas port is proper for this combo

i do know larue did some development with 260 in an ar platform which is one reason I went with their barrel (vs proof research) I’ve also had good customer service from them in the past

Stick with the rifle buffer for now, until we get this sorted out.  The rifle receiver extension and buffer are good to go.  Get that spring replaced with an Armalite EA1095 recoil spring.  That will give us a solid recoil system to work with here.

How far into the upper receiver does your gas tube extend?  It should stop in the center of the cam pin cutout.  Get a pic of that, if possible.  Is that LaRue low profile gas block adjustable?  If so, set it wide open for now. If it's not - that's cool, too. 

[Radioactive]

Will get a pic and measurement of the gas tube in the receiver. The gas block is not adjustable.

I’ll have to order the Armalite spring.

[Radioactive]

On 11/28/2019 at 2:48 PM, 98Z5V said:

Stick with the rifle buffer for now, until we get this sorted out.  The rifle receiver extension and buffer are good to go.  Get that spring replaced with an Armalite EA1095 recoil spring.  That will give us a solid recoil system to work with here.

How far into the upper receiver does your gas tube extend?  It should stop in the center of the cam pin cutout.  Get a pic of that, if possible.  Is that LaRue low profile gas block adjustable?  If so, set it wide open for now. If it's not - that's cool, too. 

Gas tube protrudes just shy of 3/4” probably11/16” looks to be where it should

ordered an ArmaLite spring

Got some more data after clean and lube(wasn’t very dirty). Would not lock back or cycle far enough to pick up next round with the larue secret 130 grain match loads or the federal premium 140 grain game kings. It did cycle next round and locked back with Hornady superformance 129 grain sst’s. The larue was a different box than previous successful attempts. It seems I’m on the cusp of being properly gassed. Will wait and see how it shakes out with new spring.

here is pic of gas tube

 

[98Z5V]

That gas tube is dead-nuts perfect, where it should be. 

These things are tricky.  Mine would cycle my 147gr handloads just fine.  It wouldn't even eject my 140gr handloads, wouldn't cycle the gun, wouldn't come close to picking up another round... Until I punched that gas port diameter up.  Ran my 120 Barnes TSX loads just fine though, before drilling.  These things are a fucker to figure out.

[Radioactive]

After I get the new spring installed I’ll see how it does then decide if I need to open the port some more

ideally I want it to cycle everything I run through it whether I can do it without being overgassed remains to be seen

[98Z5V]

24 minutes ago, Radioactive said:

After I get the new spring installed I’ll see how it does then decide if I need to open the port some more

ideally I want it to cycle everything I run through it whether I can do it without being overgassed remains to be seen

If that gas port needs to open anymore, we do it one drill-bit size at a time, until everything cycles.  You won't be overgassed. 

[Radioactive]

I was thinking / wondering if I have it close should I do my load development then tweak the gas or get it reliable then develope my load

reliable then load if it was going to be a do anything gun but this will be for distance so will probably only see 1 or two loads for it’s lifetime

thoughts / suggestions?

[RedRiverII]

If I read the thread correctly,  and it's possible I haven't.  It's been said some guns like a particular load,  and will operate just swell.  When I read you wanted to feed it anything and have it work well,  that's the challenge presented, and got the men thinking about a solution.  If you want to go hunting today,  you have a round that works,  correct?  Use that.  Once again if I remember correctly,  you have some of the best materials in the world on this rifle.  LaRue,  JP,  et al.  Do the thing you want to do today,  but for the love of Mary,  get that rifle using up all,  and any ammo as it well should.  BTW you're almost there.  Don't quit before it's done.  As an aside,  and a nod to our brothers and sisters here,  as well as a token of friendship and welcome to you,  we don't care if it costs you a quarter million to get this thing done,  we're with you.

[Radioactive]

Yup just some early morning before coffee musings -waiting on new spring before going forward seems like it takes forever when waiting on parts and days off

this will be a range only gun wouldn’t want to pack it very far

i have several hunting rigs (no ar’s) although my next build will be a 6.8mm in ar package for hogs

[98Z5V]

12 hours ago, Radioactive said:

I was thinking / wondering if I have it close should I do my load development then tweak the gas or get it reliable then develope my load

reliable then load if it was going to be a do anything gun but this will be for distance so will probably only see 1 or two loads for it’s lifetime

thoughts / suggestions?

You can go about this with either direction...   Initially, mine cycled my 147gr ELD-M load just fine, with a 0.070" gas port.  It cycled my Barnes 120gr TSX load just fine. It wouldn't cycle my 140gr ELD-M load, and I was near max-charge once I worked up with it - still no cycle.  I was on the borderline for gas port diameter.  I punched it to 0.080" - no more issues.

The only difference between yours and mine - we share identical dwell time (gas port position to end of barrel), but I'm running 20" rifle gas, and you're running 22" rifle+2" gas.  0.080" works on mine, but maybe you'd need to be at 0.083"-ish, or something, just because it's a 22" barrel?...  We're gonna be close, identical would be preferred, but it's not a guarantee...

If all I was ever gonna shoot was my 147 ELD-Ms and the Barnes 120 TSXs - I would have left it alone.  I didn't want to stop with that, though - Maybe I'll need another load in the future, or something even heavier comes out?  I punched it up because I want it to run right, first, and than I figure out the loads later.  My $0.02...

Edited November 30, 2019 by 98Z5V

[Radioactive]

13 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You can go about this with either direction...  

If all I was ever gonna shoot was my 147 ELD-Ms and the Barnes 120 TSXs - I would have left it alone.  I didn't want to stop with that, though - Maybe I'll need another load in the future, or something even heavier comes out?  I punched it up because I want it to run right, first, and than I figure out the loads later.  My $0.02...

I agree with that logic and I’ll wait for load development because I’m gonna shoot coated bullets and don’t want to bounce back and forth between coated for development and bare for cycle check (barrel cleaning) - just will take a little longer is all

[98Z5V]

Even after I figured everything out, and it cycles like a champ,and the 147s RULE in that gun...  Hornady then releases the 153 grain A-TIP projectile...   See what I mean?   They have the exact same published load data for their 147s and 153 A-TIP - but it'll still be a little different in actual chrono and performance... The way things are going with projectile development, there is really no end in sight, for what we might see in the future...  

What bothers me most is that you have a LaRue barrel, and their own 130gr Match ammo isn't running your gun.  There's something to that, and I just don't know what it is.  They MUST be doing something with a light recoil system, for their own ammo to run in their guns...  I'd like to take apart that ammo, and see what it's made of/from, chrono some... Just see what's going on there.  I think I need to order a couple boxes of that in my next order, and try it out.

[Radioactive]

I hear what you’re saying about bullet advancement - seen it in other calibers not just the 6.5’s and not just the long range rounds but hunting projectiles too. I wish I had gone with a little faster twist on my 243 ackley so I could shoot those heavy pills - oh well I’ll just stick to under 100 grain till it needs rebarreled.

I didn’t chrono any of the 260 stuff yet- seems the second box of larue match is the one with issues maybe light on powder/ different recipe not sure but last box was cycling and new not - go figure

I’m not sure what they (Larue)run in their guns I’ve never seen one in person but they did want me to use a red spring and heavy buffer when I told them I was having cycle probs maybe they went with 15 components

i did buy another box of commercial stuff 120 gr fusion just for another data point (4 different loads) and to stay ammo’d up for reliability testing

maybe I should just load up some bare bullets and put a couple hundred rounds through it to break in - it would suck if I have to do it single shot style. Wouldn’t be too bad if it was a bolt gun or locked back each time.

[98Z5V]

9 hours ago, Radioactive said:

I hear what you’re saying about bullet advancement - seen it in other calibers not just the 6.5’s and not just the long range rounds but hunting projectiles too. I wish I had gone with a little faster twist on my 243 ackley so I could shoot those heavy pills - oh well I’ll just stick to under 100 grain till it needs rebarreled.

I didn’t chrono any of the 260 stuff yet- seems the second box of larue match is the one with issues maybe light on powder/ different recipe not sure but last box was cycling and new not - go figure

I’m not sure what they (Larue)run in their guns I’ve never seen one in person but they did want me to use a red spring and heavy buffer when I told them I was having cycle probs maybe they went with 15 components

i did buy another box of commercial stuff 120 gr fusion just for another data point (4 different loads) and to stay ammo’d up for reliability testing

maybe I should just load up some bare bullets and put a couple hundred rounds through it to break in - it would suck if I have to do it single shot style. Wouldn’t be too bad if it was a bolt gun or locked back each time.

Want me to send you 20 rounds of my handloads?  If they don't cycle your gun, nothing will.  They're not dangerous, no high pressure signs - just solid loads with 147 ELD-Ms. 

[Radioactive]

I appreciate the offer but let me get the new spring in first and see what happens. You have been a great help and wealth of knowledge. I think this thing is on the edge of working correctly. Might just need a little more oomph. I’m just getting a little impatient which happens to be one of my shortcomings. I’ll kill time by contemplating my 6.8 build

[Radioactive]

Finally received my ArmaLite spring

if I get a chance today I’ll install and see what happens 

[98Z5V]

Right on.  

[Radioactive]

Installed new spring it’s longer but not as heavy on the wire.

It still had the same cycling issue so opened the gas port to .086 jumped 2 bit sizes from #46 drill bit to a #44 because my #45 bit was bent :(

seemed to work it cycled everything I had and it ejected at about 3 o’clock.

I will burn through the remaining commercial loadings (approx 50) I have to get sighted in and confirm no other cycle probs then clean copper from barrel and start the load development with boron nitride coated bullets. Have to wait for a range day so I can get some distance for the ladder test

[98Z5V]

This is great news, man - fantastic.  I thank you for the results of what it took.   These .260s are a bitch to figure out, but we're getting there...  

This info goes into my "mental album" of gas port diameter information on these guns. 

[Radioactive]

Thanks for all the help and advice.

Once I get a load or two picked out we will see if I need to tweak with buffer weight or spring coils at all. I wish I hadn’t bent my #45 bit. I dropped it and tried to jump back to see where it was going to bounce and stepped on it. When I chucked it up it had a slight wobble. Being impatient I figured probably no harm in going 1 size larger. I don’t think it’s cycling too fast but did notice a dent in the body shoulder junction from the brass deflector. I’ll add a piece of felt or rubber to the deflector to see if that works. Also saw a couple dings in the base edge but that may be from the concrete I was ejecting on. Will soften the extractor edge as well as the lugs before I burn up the commercial loads.

still got some work to do to get it right and I should probably start a new thread for those issues

[Radioactive]

Just an update before I start a new thread with my load work up I know I’m slow but have been really busy at work

 

this is my last 40 rounds of commercial ammo mixed just making sure no cycling probs - absolutely none. Not as fast as I could pull the trigger ( not a mag dump) but didn’t dick around either. Distance 100 yds 2 - 20 round mags I decided to shoot 2nd mag at bottom half after the 1st ran dry. 3 inch target dot.

I’m happy with how it shoots.

 

[unforgiven]

That's great 😊

[shooterrex]

Looks like it works well.

[98Z5V]

18 hours ago, Radioactive said:

Just an update before I start a new thread with my load work up I know I’m slow but have been really busy at work

 

this is my last 40 rounds of commercial ammo mixed just making sure no cycling probs - absolutely none. Not as fast as I could pull the trigger ( not a mag dump) but didn’t dick around either. Distance 100 yds 2 - 20 round mags I decided to shoot 2nd mag at bottom half after the 1st ran dry. 3 inch target dot.

I’m happy with how it shoots.

 

These .260 Rems crush it, brother.  Once figured out, they're the SHEEEEIIIIT!  I love mine so much that I'm gonna do a LaRue 18" full gun.  .260 Rem is the shiit.