Rookie builder - Starting on a .308

[BeeKay]

I bought a .358 lever gun and have always wanted a semi auto in that chambering... So that's what got me started.
I started reading up on the stuff that's out there and all the countless ways a guy can throw money away, and I decided to toss the dice.
To make it more interesting, I ordered an 80% lower. And at this point I'm wondering whether I may be setting myself up for a frustrating project.
I've only ordered 2 pieces so far: an 80% lower from 80% Arms Co. and a barrel chambered in .358 from KAK
These are both California companies and I am a CA resident so just being able to discuss possible complications with someone in-state swayed me to purchase from them, although they both are slightly higher priced.
Anyhow it was after ordering, that additional questions on compatability came to mind, and nobody is there on the weekends to pick up the phone.

I'm curious what anyone thinks of these components in terms of compatability?
I expect I will be ordering a BCG and upper assembly from KAK .
Is there anything special I need to know about whether the two components I'm getting, so far, and the way they fit together?

Thanks for welcoming me to the group - Replies greatly appreciated

Edited April 4, 2020 by BeeKay

[Albroswift]

Hey, BK, welcome to the forum. I have done several 80%, can't help you with compatibility but I would think they should both fit the same upper. Sounds like a cool build.  Post links to the barrel and lower, we'll take a look. Look for sales on Toolcraft BCG, should get one for $70+ or so. Toolcraft seems to be most everyone around here's goto BCG. 

As far as 80%: I really like the 5D Pro jig, get on their mailing list they have 10% off sales all the time. so far did a AR40, several AR15's, and 2 large frame AR's. Exceptional results. 

Keep us posted.  

[BeeKay]

I ought to add that I have experience working on every gun I have owned on some level And I have experience as a machinist, although I do not own any precision machining equipment. But I have taken the time to school myself on the concepts of timing of moving parts and how .001" can sometimes make a large difference.
 

[Albroswift]

I'm not a machinist, but I am quite the hack with a mill and a lathe. 

 

[BeeKay]

https://www.80percentarms.com/products/custom-ca-compliant-serialized-80-lowers/

https://www.kakindustry.com/lr-308-parts/358-winchester-parts/kak-358-stainless-19-inch-rifle-stainless-barrel

Let's see if these links work

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, BeeKay said:

I bought a .358 lever gun and have always wanted a semi auto in that chambering...

.358 Winchester?

[BeeKay]

Something that has me confused is the headspacing issue with various BCGs when used in different barrels. 
I understand how there can be issues and the solution is to correct headspacing by pulling the barrel end and adjusting it there (I think that's what it's called)
The thing that confuses me is how it's even possible that there would NOT be headspacing issues, considering the close tolerances, and having to send a barrel in to someone to have it headspaced professionally when mixing and matching.
So with that in mind; Would it not be best to buy an entire upper from the same company that makes the barrel?

[BeeKay]

1 minute ago, 98Z5V said:

.358 Winchester?

Yes

[98Z5V]

Which KAK barrel are you buying, and why is that better than a Wilson Combat barrel? 

I will eventually build a 7mm-08 AR and a .358 Win AR, and Wilson Combat will be the barrels I'll use - based off my past experience with the Wilson Combat .260 Rem and .338 Fed AR barrels.

[98Z5V]

4 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

Something that has me confused is the headspacing issue with various BCGs when used in different barrels. 
I understand how there can be issues and the solution is to correct headspacing by pulling the barrel end and adjusting it there (I think that's what it's called)
The thing that confuses me is how it's even possible that there would NOT be headspacing issues, considering the close tolerances, and having to send a barrel in to someone to have it headspaced professionally when mixing and matching.
So with that in mind; Would it not be best to buy an entire upper from the same company that makes the barrel?

That statement is completely false.  You can't adjust the headspace on an AR barrel - that has to be precision machined, and performed, when building the barrel - by the barrel maker.

[BeeKay]

24 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Which KAK barrel are you buying, and why is that better than a Wilson Combat barrel? 

I will eventually build a 7mm-08 AR and a .358 Win AR, and Wilson Combat will be the barrels I'll use - based off my past experience with the Wilson Combat .260 Rem and .338 Fed AR barrels.

I don't know that it is better. I just shopped around a bit and they had one in stock that seems like it ought to be right. It is the length and the chambering I wanted also, 19".
But I won't know for sure til I try it.
It seemed like I remember reading good reviews of KAK on a different site.

Edited April 4, 2020 by BeeKay

[98Z5V]

5 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

I don't know that it is better.

I haven't read any accuracy reviews on KAK barrels, but maybe that's because I haven't looked.  But the Wilson Combat Match Grade barrels hae reviews everywhere, and I've written my own about them.  Match polished chamber, final lapped barrels...  You'll be hard-pressed to find a better production barrel in hunting-calibers, than the ones that Wilson Combat makes.

I just asked a question, on why you went that way, over the Wilson Combat. You answer was "I don't know that it is better."  I'll bet it is, hands down, but that's just me speaking on my experience with two WC barrels.  It's just the quality that WC puts into their own barrels, that they make in-house.  They really are Match Grade barrels - and they're not that expensive, for what you get.  That's just my opinion, on my own experience.

[BeeKay]

12 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

I haven't read any accuracy reviews on KAK barrels, but maybe that's because I haven't looked.  But the Wilson Combat Match Grade barrels hae reviews everywhere, and I've written my own about them.  Match polished chamber, final lapped barrels...  You'll be hard-pressed to find a better production barrel in hunting-calibers, than the ones that Wilson Combat makes.

I just asked a question, on why you went that way, over the Wilson Combat. You answer was "I don't know that it is better."  I'll bet it is, hands down, but that's just me speaking on my experience with two WC barrels.  It's just the quality that WC puts into their own barrels, that they make in-house.  They really are Match Grade barrels - and they're not that expensive, for what you get.  That's just my opinion, on my own experience.

I'll check into that. Thanks for the info

So what would be an 80% lower that is compatible with WC barrels and whatever upper accompanies that?

[98Z5V]

@BeeKay - what are you going to use this gun for?  I'm not dogging your barrel choice, not at all - please don't think that. I'm just asking questions here.

The .358 Win is not a long-range cartridge.  It's a hunting caliber.  I'm going to make mine with a 16" Wilson Combat Ranger barrel, weighing in at 34.1oz.  That's great for hunting - shorter, and way lighter than the barrel you're going with.  19" barrel and 44-ish oz - that's alot of swing weight. 

FWIW, barrels don't care what upper and lower you use.  Just don't care.  If they're made right, all barrels will work.  The 80% lower might be the only issue that you run into - and you must find a compatible upper for it.

[BeeKay]

5 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

@BeeKay - what are you going to use this gun for?  I'm not dogging your barrel choice, not at all - please don't think that. I'm just asking questions here.

The .358 Win is not a long-range cartridge.  It's a hunting caliber.  I'm going to make mine with a 16" Wilson Combat Ranger barrel, weighing in at 34.1oz.  That's great for hunting - shorter, and way lighter than the barrel you're going with.  19" barrel and 44-ish oz - that's alot of swing weight. 

FWIW, barrels don't care what upper and lower you use.  Just don't care.  If they're made right, all barrels will work.  The 80% lower might be the only issue that you run into - and you must find a compatible upper for it.

I was undecided on the length and I decided on that length because my hunting gun is that length... Or close
Over the past couple weeks, I've been listening to advice from various sources, All of them more experienced at this than I am.
Our local range is only 300 yd max. There's a tentative plan to extend it, and if they do I may buy a different barrel... maybe a .243 or 7mm ?
I guess that I was just thinking that with a 19" barrel, I could do well out to 300 yd. Maybe better than with a shorter barrel.

[Albroswift]

17 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

So what would be an 80% lower that is compatible with WC barrels and whatever upper accompanies that?

The lower you linked to is as good as any (As long as you checked the 308 box!) I usually go with the AMT anodized billets but recently got a Noreen just because I wanted raw/ forged. Both well under $100.00  Most important is upper and lower play fair. Shouldn't have a problem with the barrel/ upper. I try to  stay with DPMS pattern low rail uppers. 

[BeeKay]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

That statement is completely false.  You can't adjust the headspace on an AR barrel - that has to be precision machined, and performed, when building the barrel - by the barrel maker.

On this matter, someone told me that if the bolt and barrel aren't paired, headspacing issues are likely and to correct that a barrel and bolt need to be adjusted to match by pulling the barrel extension...
NO?

[BeeKay]

3 minutes ago, Albroswift said:

The lower you linked to is as good as any (As long as you checked the 308 box!) I usually go with the AMT anodized billets but recently got a Noreen just because I wanted raw/ forged. Both well under $100.00  Most important is upper and lower play fair. Shouldn't have a problem with the barrel/ upper. I try to  stay with DPMS pattern low rail uppers. 

Thanks - 
I went with  this companies 80% lower because they offer engraving to help with compliance issues, and another company I was about to order through had just sold out, so I sort of felt pressured.

[98Z5V]

1 minute ago, BeeKay said:

I guess that I was just thinking that with a 19" barrel, I could do well out to 300 yd. Maybe better than with a shorter barrel.

I have a .308 Win AR with a 13.5" barrel, and a red dot - and can hit IPSC steel plates at 400 yards.  My .338 Fed AR has a 16" barrel, and a 1~6 scope, and can do the same. The .358 Win AR souldn't have any issue at all connecting with something that's "hunting vitals) sized (7" or 10", depending on what animal you're after) at 300 yards.  A 19" barrel is WAY overkill for that kind of maximum distance.

Accuracy is accuracy.  Your barrel is either accurate, or it's not.  If it's accurate - it doesn't matter how long or short it is, for what we do. This isn't Bench-Rest F-Class Competition here. If it's accurate, but it's shorter - it has less muzzle velocity. I can dial in my scope for muzzle velocity changes, at distance, and still be very accurate.  At 300 yards, though, it really doesn't matter.  Wind doesn't even affect your round at that distance, unless you're shooting in the middle of a tornado.

[Albroswift]

NO?! I do check the headspace but don't adjust. Could try some different bolts I guess. I just like to know how tight the chamber is for reloading/ resizing purposes. in half a dozen or more builds, never had an issue. All Toolcraft BCG's, multiple barrel manufactures 

[98Z5V]

4 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

On this matter, someone told me that if the bolt and barrel aren't paired, headspacing issues are likely and to correct that a barrel and bolt need to be adjusted to match by pulling the barrel extension...
NO?

That is false.  Very, very false. You don't just "retime" a barrel extension.  That is complete bullshiit, by whoever it was that told you that.

You need a set of .358 Win headspace gauges, that at least include the GO and NO-GO gauges. You check your headspace on your barrel and bolt, with those gauges, and you buy parts from reputable manufacturers, and you should be good.  If it's off...   there's no adjusting it.

[Albroswift]

2 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

felt pressured

Thats OK, Order the wrong part and you just have seeds for the next build...

[Albroswift]

Really like the looks of the Wilson ultra-lite 16"

[BeeKay]

Well - OK 
I feel more educated - 😉 

I placed my order on Friday night and on Monday I'll check to see whether I can get a shorter barrel. That makes sense to me and it's the one I wanted originally... 
Someone convinced me that I should get a barrel length that's the same as my other rifle, For some reason... I guess some guys just think you need a longer barrel.

[BeeKay]

@Albroswift  Hmm... Should I be able to get a jig from the outfit that you mentioned earlier and expect it to work with the lower I have?