Rookie builder - Starting on a .308

[Albroswift]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Tired of this here...

This is how we get info from people-looking-for-info...

[BeeKay]

The most recent thing I have been told is that the makers of 80% lowers can legally ship to 49 states. The one exception is New Jersey... This was as of Sat April 4 2020
Something may have changed since then.... 
In CA as a buyer, beginning sometime  in 2018, you're supposed to have it numbered, so the company I bought it from, a California company, offers a service of engraving.
There's been another change since then... or probably more than one change... and to legally own an AR, someone needs to take it to an FFL and register it, after it's been turned from a paperweight to a firearm.
But there isn't any law against a company producing and shipping 80% lowers in or to CA.
When they engrave a # on my lower, it isn't recorded with the DOJ.
Yes, people are scrambling to buy up AR lowers right now - They are becoming unavailable, because they're being bought up so quickly. 
I am one of those people... Today there might be some pink ones left, if you hurry.
Trump was good to people in the firearms business and he declared firearms an essential business.
The California governor came out and said the opposite, but gun shop owners are opting to remain open, and there are lines to get in.

 

[BeeKay]

7 hours ago, edgecrusher said:

As far as compatibility you are correct. Some companies products won’t play well with others, others will but cosmetically won’t match. We often suggest if at all possible by an upper an lower from the same company to avoid tolerance stacking issues. With luck, the upper you choose will fit, and all will be well. I suggest if you can, after milling your lower test fit a couple different brands of uppers if at all possible. There is no spec for the 308AR, so every manufacturer does their own thing.The 16” barrel is the right choice, much easier and lighter. Plus the closer to you the weight is the lighter it will feel. 

welcome

Thanks for that information.  And for welcome me to the board!
I feel like I'm enduring a bit of a hazing here... But hey - It keeps things interesting

I have to wonder, Am I the first guy to show up here with questions on an 80% build?

Edited April 5, 2020 by BeeKay

[BeeKay]

Another thing that's interesting is that businesses that sell 80%s are so busy right now that their CS people are working in shipping, so they can't pick up the phone.
So I'm appreciative of any information anyone is willing to offer. 
Anybody who's built an AR is more experienced than I am, So accept everyone's input, and sometimes have conflicting information to sort through.

[Cunuckgaucho]

10 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Tired of this here...

This is how we get info from people-looking-for-info...

That better be artesian well water not that chlorinated tap water otherwise I'm not telling you a thing...

[BeeKay]

10 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Tired of this here...

This is how we get info from people-looking-for-info...

Check this out - They've got some old guy pinned down and it looks like his wife is helping
He's ductaped, so I don't think it's cause his face caught on fire

[unforgiven]

1 hour ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

That better be artesian well water not that chlorinated tap water otherwise I'm not telling you a thing...

Fuji or forget it.

[unforgiven]

2 hours ago, BeeKay said:

The most recent thing I have been told is that the makers of 80% lowers can legally ship to 49 states. The one exception is New Jersey... This was as of Sat April 4 2020
Something may have changed since then.... 
In CA as a buyer, beginning sometime  in 2018, you're supposed to have it numbered, so the company I bought it from, a California company, offers a service of engraving.
There's been another change since then... or probably more than one change... and to legally own an AR, someone needs to take it to an FFL and register it, after it's been turned from a paperweight to a firearm.
But there isn't any law against a company producing and shipping 80% lowers in or to CA.
When they engrave a # on my lower, it isn't recorded with the DOJ.
Yes, people are scrambling to buy up AR lowers right now - They are becoming unavailable, because they're being bought up so quickly. 
I am one of those people... Today there might be some pink ones left, if you hurry.
Trump was good to people in the firearms business and he declared firearms an essential business.
The California governor came out and said the opposite, but gun shop owners are opting to remain open, and there are lines to get in.

 

So you want to get around California department of justice. Is that legal ?

[edgecrusher]

6 hours ago, BeeKay said:

Thanks for that information.  And for welcome me to the board!
I feel like I'm enduring a bit of a hazing here... But hey - It keeps things interesting

I have to wonder, Am I the first guy to show up here with questions on an 80% build?

No, there is a lot of info here on that. The hazing comes from new members such as yourself joining and not reading up on posts here or asking questions that are difficult to answer without all the information we need to properly answer. 
 

This place is like the biker bar strangers see on the side of the road. Salty and scary dudes dwell with in. You open the doors and they all stare. You approach the bar and order your favorite libation and take a seat. You then over hear several conversations you have surprising interest in. You approach to join in and are met with apprehension. If you stay you’ll be accepted as long as you respect the rules and mind your manors. Drink to much and get out of hand and you’ll be helped out the door. 

[BeeKay]

Did I do something I shouldn't be doing?

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

Did I do something I shouldn't be doing?

Not really intentionally, no, you didn't.  Unintentionally, I get it - you want to keep your information to yourself.  However, in order to get decent information TO you, we need information from you...  In this day and age, in this country - we need to know where you live, in order to get decent information to you.  It's not because we want to raid your house and steal al your hardware, either.  There are WAY TOO MANY restrictive states in this nation, as fas as 2A goes.  Off the top of my head, CA used to be the king of it.  I now think that NY is the worst for 2A supporters, and that flipped in the last year.  MA, NJ, CO, IL, CT - they're all bad now, for 2A.  WA is betting better, but absolutely sucked for a bunch of years, for certain things.

So, having stated that - with you asking for specific 80% info, and you live in Cali...   That excludes a very large portion of this board, regular members, that can help you out.  My question is - had I not directly asked you where you live - when were you gonna provide that info? It should have been in your Intro Thread that tells us all about yourself, so we know what we're accurately working with here. 

Does that make sense?  You should see what we deal with on this side of the fence, here.  Different perspective, from you seeking information.  I just want you to have the best info that you can, to get you running.  I can't offer legal advice for your state, though, and that limits what help you'll get.

There's a hellish-detailed thread here, in the 80% section, on making an 80% .308AR lower.  User Lane knocked his project out of the park, and he's in NY State.  Find his thread, it's packed with info.

[BeeKay]

Thanks for taking the time to  politely explain. @98Z5V

If I may explain : I went to the Intro board and checked in and I said I have some questions and I said I'd take my questions to General Discussion and the Mod said "Go for it, Make yourself at home"  Then on my first post here I explained that I am a CA resident and I am having some components, including an 80% lower, shipped to me from a company also in CA.
So, I was not trying to be sneaky nor does it seem flaky that I went that route... The mod had no objection and up to a point, it seemed like there wasn't any disapproval.
 

As for the laws in my state : They can legally ship a lower to me, and I can do as I see fit. If I turn it into a firearm I'm required to register it.
That's how it stands today.

@Albroswift - There were some questions on other laws in our state, concerning furniture?
It's screwy - So screwy that a lot of gun shop owners and police have a hard time keeping up with it. 
There's a lot to do with pistol grips as a feature on semi autos that applies to semi autos only. Folding stocks as well.
You can have a pump rifle or shotgun with pistol grips, but not a semi auto, cause that makes it an assault weapon.
... Apparently

The other thing that's apparent, is that elected officials keep their constituency happy by keeping firearms owners frustrated. 
Never mind whether the laws are enforcable, they just feel a need to inconvienience people.

I guess I'll post again when I get my stuff
Is it necessary to mention that I'm a CA resident at the beginning of each thread?
 

[Armed Eye Doc]

@BeeKay you seem to be far more knowledgeable about your state and the laws than many people who come here asking for advice.  Unfortunately, that is not the case in many situations.  Those on the forum that give advice cannot assume that of everyone.

As everyone else has said, none of this is personal.  You have reacted much better than a lot of people who come in and demand information without giving details.  Many of them think we are keeping information that they deserve when they demand it.  I don't see that you have done that.  Those threads don't usually end well except to those that enjoy watching car wrecks.

 

[BeeKay]

1 hour ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

@BeeKay you seem to be far more knowledgeable about your state and the laws than many people who come here asking for advice.  Unfortunately, that is not the case in many situations.  Those on the forum that give advice cannot assume that of everyone.

As everyone else has said, none of this is personal.  You have reacted much better than a lot of people who come in and demand information without giving details.  Many of them think we are keeping information that they deserve when they demand it.  I don't see that you have done that.  Those threads don't usually end well except to those that enjoy watching car wrecks.

 

Thank You
California is a land of contradictions, that make things difficult to figure out.
A lot of firearms that are in circulation, presently, are ones that ended up being banned for sale, later.
An example of that is the Browning BLR in the Hog Stalker model. You can't buy one, it has a pistol grip attached to the stock. Yet at the range which is frequented by LEOs, probably 1/3 of the people shoot an AR variant that has a pistol grip. And nobody feels that there's any need to keep it hidden. Yet I haven't seen a single AR variant that had a magazine capacity greater than 10, nor have I seen a gun with a forward pistol grip. That is the level of compliance that is expected.
It appears to be a world of loopholes and responsible citizens are aware of how to exploit those loopholes.

But if there were a car full of suspicious guys going around and they got pulled over and searched and the police found a legal break open shotgun in the trunk, there'd be a lot of explaining to do.
The first thing would be a background check on everyone in the car for felony record.
If someone behaves suspiciously, then firearms regs become 'a thing'
If someone's behavior is responsible, then the law overlooks a lot of things, because there is not a database that makes it convienient for an LEO to check on what firearm belongs to who. And there are firearms in circulation that aren't even in that database, because they began creating it in the late 80s.
It's my understanding that a subpoena is required to access that information. And those subpoenas are issued in a criminal investigation.

So - Yes, people in CA have ARs
There is a large liberal constituency here and they pressure lawmakers endlessly to be a thorn in the side of firearms owners. But the question of enforcement is a whole different issue.
You can't buy a semi auto with a pistol grip at a store, but you can build one, and if you show up at the range with it and there are LEOs there, there will be other guys there too who have them, and there won't be any questions asked, but NO magazines over 10 rounds, and a barrel under 16" with a shoulder stock will get you noticed too.
That's the level of compliance that is expected of responsible citizens, in my own personal observation.
We have to wait 15 days for a background check to clear and pay something like $50 extra for that service and people don't like it... unless they happen to be liberals.

But you learn to cope, somehow.

What I'm saying isn't what the law is, it's just what people are doing  through loopholes.

[98Z5V]

36 minutes ago, BeeKay said:

So - Yes, people in CA have ARs

There is a large liberal constituency here and they pressure lawmakers endlessly to be a thorn in the side of firearms owners. But the question of enforcement is a whole different issue.

What I'm saying isn't what the law is, it's just what people are doing  through loopholes.

Very valid points - and you have to look at this - HERE  - from outside your perspective.  Sure, people in Cali own ARs. Sure, they do all kinds of things to them that aren't in compliance with Cali Laws - I get it.  Sure, you might be shooting next to a Cali LEO - and HIS SHIIT looks illegal, too... - but it's not.  He is LEO, and has an exemption. No joke.  You, as a private citizen, non-LEO, and that active LEO  - two different worlds, right there.  Blame your legislators on that law, or set of laws. 

Now, you can ask whatever you want here - telling us where you're from greatly alleviates headaches like this thread.  Right from the beginning.  Don't think that most people here can give you accurate information on Cali Gun Laws, though.  Not even close. If you really, seriously want information on Cali Gun Laws, on the world wide web, then you need to be asking those questions on CalGuns.net.  No joke, there are gun lawyers there, as members of that board.

If you need help getting your AR15 or .308AR running - no matter what caliber it is - we can fix it.  If you need legal advice on building your gun, and you live in Cali - you need to be asking those specific questions on CalGuns, and not here.  THEY rule, on that, and THEY are the subject matter experts on making legal guns in California.  We make guns run. We don't make legal guns in states that hate 2A.  That's not our specialty, here.

Edited April 6, 2020 by 98Z5V

[DNP]

LEO only have an exemption here if their department allows it. Just being LEO doesn’t give you freedom from the BS. Others here could back me up, but I know at least in our town...LEO still have regulations. Just FYI. Now, they can actually purchase pistols off the roster , but that’s a whole other thread. 

[BeeKay]

An interesting thing happened, and I have to take back something I said
2 min after I posted my most recent post, a friend sent me a text and he had an incident in which he discharged a .38 revolver to get the attention of someone who was cutting wood on his property with a chainsaw. The law showed up and ran the #s on his revolver. Everything was smoothed out. But there are levels of enforcement available today that I was unaware of.
The info that I posted was something that I regurgitated from a post I made on CalGuns last year.

Anyhow - I am becoming aware of your perspective on this and I have remained professional and respectful to the best of my ability.

Thanks for sharing information and your viewpoint as well.

Edited April 6, 2020 by BeeKay

[unforgiven]

Most places it's illegal to just discharge a firearm within city limits.

Cali is so fuked

[98Z5V]

21 hours ago, BeeKay said:

 he discharged a .38 revolver to get the attention of someone who was cutting wood on his property with a chainsaw.

 

12 hours ago, unforgiven said:

Most places it's illegal to just discharge a firearm within city limits.

Cali is so fuked

Rene - if that guy lives in Cali, and is trying to stop people from cutting wood on his property - he's probably not in any city limits...  If he somehow is, it's a pretty rural "city,"  and those LEOs would understand that.  Big trees aint's cheap, and neither are smaller ones.  That kinda shiit should be straight up Grand Theft, right there.

[Cunuckgaucho]

42 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

 That kinda shiit should be straight up Grand Theft, right there.

There have been a couple creative urban tree rustling cases up here. Guys showed up with official looking truck during day( people at work)showed people( curious neighbors) official looking paperwork and acted like they belonged.

[BeeKay]

I have had a chance to have a conversation with this friend since the post I made.
Someone was on his property and operating a chainsaw, cutting downed wood for firewood. He discharged his revolver to get the guys attention, and there was some shouting.

Between the gunshot and the shouting, one or more of the neighbors made the decision that it's time to make a 911 call.

It isn't illegal to fire a gun in rural locations here. In fact if people live around here, you get used to hearing gunfire, but if someone calls the law to report an possible incident, the Sheriff will show up. 
That's what happened.
He did run the #s on my friend's gun and then return it to him.

Part of why I posted that was because I made an earlier statement that LE doesn't have access to a database that readily matches firearms owners to their guns, so many laws haven't been enforceable.
That has changed.

Something else, as long as this discussion is fresh in people's minds:
Concerning intros - I have been browsing and doing searches to get answers to most questions, but I'm pretty sure that I'll be posting when my parts arrive and I begin the build.
Is it advisable that I re-introduce myself on the intro board explaining that I am a CA resident?
Or would it be a good idea to explain that at the beginning of any thread I post?
Just trying to prevent future threads from going in the direction this one went.

Thanks for being here - This is a great site!

Edited April 7, 2020 by BeeKay

[BeeKay]

10 hours ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

There have been a couple creative urban tree rustling cases up here. Guys showed up with official looking truck during day( people at work)showed people( curious neighbors) official looking paperwork and acted like they belonged.

Something that's really unnerving is guys who go around with a moving van and knocking on doors claiming to be movers looking for an address they can't find.
When they find a house where nobody's around, the clean the place out, including the plumbing if it's copper.

I was at someone's place on New Year' day when when a couple of these types came knockin'
Something just didn't seem right.

[98Z5V]

On 4/7/2020 at 7:36 AM, BeeKay said:

Something else, as long as this discussion is fresh in people's minds:

Concerning intros - I have been browsing and doing searches to get answers to most questions, but I'm pretty sure that I'll be posting when my parts arrive and I begin the build.
Is it advisable that I re-introduce myself on the intro board explaining that I am a CA resident?
Or would it be a good idea to explain that at the beginning of any thread I post?
Just trying to prevent future threads from going in the direction this one went.

Thanks for being here - This is a great site!

Best this to do is update your profile, list your "location" as "CA" - and it's pretty clear to anyone here where you are and what you're dealing with, rule/law wise. 

[Lowlander]

On AR barrels, large or small frame, the gas port won't line up if you make any adjustments to the barrel/extension interface. On most bolt actions you can cut the shoulder back which in turn allows the barrel to screw in further. Decreasing headspace and allows some adjustment.

Once a gas port is drilled into an AR barrel and a barrel extension installed, it is pretty much permanent. Hopefully your KAK barrel will headspace properly with a 308 bolt. I do agree with 98Z5V that you should check it with headspace gauges once it's built and the barrel is torqued properly. Just remember to pull the ejector out of the bolt so it doesn't give a false measurement.

I'm a big proponent of headspace gauges for any cartridge you run. They are worth the money to ensure your rifle is safe to fire. Most ARs are chambered so that headspace is within spec to a standard bolt dimension. But there's always an exception, better to err on the side of caution especially with a more uncommon chambering like the .358Win.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes...

[98Z5V]

On 4/17/2020 at 8:58 AM, Lowlander said:

On AR barrels, large or small frame, the gas port won't line up if you make any adjustments to the barrel/extension interface.

There aren't any adjustments to make on an AR barrel extension.  Zero "adjustment."  Rifled barrel blank gets the extension torqued onto the barrel end at 175lb/ft, and that's the first step of the barrel build.  Everything else comes after that.  Once the extension is on there, then the other steps can begin.