HomeMade Annealer Machine

[DustBuster]

Well, now I know how inventors like Edison, or Lane feel like sometimes.

ProtoTypes can sometimes make you feel like quitting entirely and throwing the whole shebang in the scrap pile.  This is what will mostly happen to my most recent project.  

I did some research... 5 basics methods and maybe more to anneal.

1.  Horizontal Turntable with torches/torch

2.  Coffee can/bake pan on side with a slot cut out and a little motor and ramp, also with the torch.

3.  Instead of coffee can/bake pan on side, two little round rollers powdered by small motor; one to cause the brass to spin and one to feed the brass to the spin/torch area from a hopper of sorts.

4.  Inductive annealing with a turbocharged Mag Coil.

5.  Socket or holder on a drill with the torch in the other hand.

I chose to try an build something like #2 or #3... more leaning forward #3.

I happened to have a Ceiling fan motor... Mistake number 1.  Too fast.  So I went to ace and bought a 16 dollar fan speed dial controller... which did slow the Lowest speed down to probably like 100 rpm...  

I discovered a little braking pressure on the ceiling fan would slow it down even more.  I then proceeded to think of a way to link the ceiling fan motor to some kind of rotating shafts.  I couldn’t use the ceiling motor shaft to act as a drive shaft, because of its design, since the wires of the ceiling fan actually exit the motor, inside the shaft itself.  The motor is what spins around unimpinged.  So I learned a little bit about making wooden gears on-line.

I actually brought my old mountain bike inside the garage to steal its sprocket and chain, but I couldn’t get the crank off.  I halted that attempt.

More to Follow:  I have to go.

Basically what I did was attach a small 4” diameter wooden gear to the ceiling motor, and meshed it into a 12” wooden gear... for a 1/3 angular velocity reduction.  That works but was it was a pain in the ash fine tune fitting the band saw cut teeth.  The thin finely turns decently but is LOUD as a Team if Shoed Clydesdales delivering Beer to Mr. 98.  I can Brake the lowest reduced speed down to appropriate rotational velocity but it is too close to stalling and burning up if I do that.  

I now realize that the whole thing will go to the scrap bucket and I think for now I will be looking for a socket that fits my brass for method #5.

Ceiling Fan Motors Suck

[shaffe48]

I do something similar to the socket but I have a small piece of pipe on a swivel that I use to tilt the neck between two propane torches that are in holders.

[Lane]

That's quite a rundown... Someone has been reading about the possibilities. I have a few induction furnaces, and I've tested that method briefly for annealing. I'm personally in the propane torch camp though. It's easy to see; out in the open, and is much less complicated than the rest in my personal opinion. 

I haven't built one yet; but I've been eyeballing the basic two motor design for quite some time. The one that has a slow motor up top to grab a case from the stack, and then the "cake pan" to roll it before dropping in water. Setting up a torch and aiming it is really easy to do.

Sure; you might be able to get more done per hour with an induction annealer. But that hardly matters; the whole point is having an automated system in the first place. One might consider shopping around for torch heads if propane is the go-to (one that can maintain a flame size over time). Either way. Even running batches of a 100 should be possible in even the worst of setups.

What prototyping brings to the table is, an easy to way to figure out what DOES NOT work. Prototyping is rarely about anything else. Fine tuning can happen only once the design is solidified based on those previous bad experiences. 

You need some pretty small motors in general for the coffee can or bake pan setup. Taking apart kids toys is often a fine source for such things. This might also apply soon; when college schedules break for a semester; there are often many inkjet printers left on the curb for trash as students move out. Those are a great source for just the right kind of motors. One would be wise to grab an arduino and/or motor drivers from amazon or eBay or whatever too. But that's all it really takes. A sturdy cardboard box and a few fabricated parts are all that's left to worry about.

[DustBuster]

5 hours ago, shaffe48 said:

I do something similar to the socket but I have a small piece of pipe on a swivel that I use to tilt the neck between two propane torches that are in holders.

I saw that method online, maybe that was You!  A nnealion ways apparently to soften brass!

4 hours ago, Lane said:

That's quite a rundown...

...... A sturdy cardboard box and a few fabricated parts are all that's left to worry about.

Yep smaller motors and a lighter box will be Version 2.  I’m so stubborn I might just try to finish this Tank.  Thank you guys for your advice.... I also just happen to have a Frikken Cannon Printer that just konked out.  Version two might start with a printer breakdown... Thanks Guys....Here is my prototype... ( patent is in no danger of pending )

 

[Lane]

I am here to eat my own words in this topic. Stumbled across a video the other day. I'm not sure I will be sticking with propane after all... That's just me; but you can judge for yourself.

 

While I'm not going that route exactly; it inspired me to pick up some 1/8" copper tubing (so it can be water cooled). Watching him use the handheld unit without even a water bath was promising enough. And; living in the cold northeast; a bolt warmer is a good buy for other reasons (rusty bolts on all types of motor vehicles). I don't want to say too much about my own build here. But the video is worth a watch no matter what.

[98Z5V]

That's incredibly cool - I'll be putting one of those things together.  Thanks for posting that, man! 

[jtallen83]

2 hours ago, Lane said:

While I'm not going that route exactly;

I'll be watching that and what you do with the idea. I had never worried about, once fired for accuracy then used for plinking ammo to fail. Things have changed these days so brass preservation has become a factor, something that inexpensive that works good really makes it a factor much easier to deal with. 

[shaffe48]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:11 PM, Lane said:

That's quite a rundown... Someone has been reading about the possibilities. I have a few induction furnaces, and I've tested that method briefly for annealing. I'm personally in the propane torch camp though. It's easy to see; out in the open, and is much less complicated than the rest in my personal opinion. 

I haven't built one yet; but I've been eyeballing the basic two motor design for quite some time. The one that has a slow motor up top to grab a case from the stack, and then the "cake pan" to roll it before dropping in water. Setting up a torch and aiming it is really easy to do.

Sure; you might be able to get more done per hour with an induction annealer. But that hardly matters; the whole point is having an automated system in the first place. One might consider shopping around for torch heads if propane is the go-to (one that can maintain a flame size over time). Either way. Even running batches of a 100 should be possible in even the worst of setups.

What prototyping brings to the table is, an easy to way to figure out what DOES NOT work. Prototyping is rarely about anything else. Fine tuning can happen only once the design is solidified based on those previous bad experiences. 

You need some pretty small motors in general for the coffee can or bake pan setup. Taking apart kids toys is often a fine source for such things. This might also apply soon; when college schedules break for a semester; there are often many inkjet printers left on the curb for trash as students move out. Those are a great source for just the right kind of motors. One would be wise to grab an arduino and/or motor drivers from amazon or eBay or whatever too. But that's all it really takes. A sturdy cardboard box and a few fabricated parts are all that's left to worry about.

I think you might be able to get more consistency from induction because heat from a propane torch depends on how you hold the torch, how full the tank is, and how far you turn it on.

You can measure consistency of neck tension with some presses that will chart pressure over the stroke of the press.

But at the end of the day those electronic machines he had cost a couple hundred and who knows how long they last.

A propane torch will increase your brass life and apparently even serious competitors use some sort of propane system...though likely better than mine.

[DustBuster]

I’m about to start resizing stuff for the third time, before I do that I will be annealing probably with the torch and a socket.  I gave up on the wooden cog machine to shuffle my brass automatically.  I just don’t pump through brass fast enough to warrant such a crazy machine.  I will watch the induction video, however... maybe I can rig up something that hooks to my alternator (car engine) and microwave the brass that way.  No sense in reinventing wheels.  I just spent an hour scrubbing 100 primer pockets with a drill motor brush.... Takes me a week to finish up a batch like that.... PityFull !

[ARTrooper]

That electric annealer lane found was what I planned on building. Wasn’t going to post until I had it built though. But now I have to fix a fridge for the second time in two weeks. Lol. Those funds are out the door

[DustBuster]

2 hours ago, ARTrooper said:

That electric annealer lane found was what I planned on building. Wasn’t going to post until I had it built though. But now I have to fix a fridge for the second time in two weeks. Lol. Those funds are out the door

Yep, I feel your pain.  I want one So Bad now!  For TwoHundy it’s a drop in the bucket when the cash is flowing good.... There are some circuit parts online for making them from 1kw to 3kw...for less money, but all the time and risk assembling and soldering adds up to more cost and possible frustration.  Good luck and leave it to Lane to discover some thing like a Keurig machine to modify, wind some transformers and Presto, instant Annealing.  Wish it was that simple.

I guess my next morning project might be to scrape some cap gum and try to make ten primers, haha.  Or I should rather do something productive around the house like you... I’m good at neglecting proper chores.

[Lane]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:05 PM, jtallen83 said:

I had never worried about, once fired for accuracy then used for plinking ammo to fail. Things have changed these days so brass preservation has become a factor, something that inexpensive that works good really makes it a factor much easier to deal with.

I am in exactly the same boat. For a while I had ignored annealing because I could get more brass without question. That ship has sailed though; at least in the short term. And if there's a really easy way to get this done; I'm game. 

Without too many boring details out of the gate; I'd like to apply a technique I use in another induction system. The multi-layer coil. It should focus the heat better; and apply more power to a small area. Even a pancake coil isn't out of the question. It's also possible to add I.D. to the top of the coil, which will still act as a turn, but apply less energy to the neck while still focusing on the shoulder. So there's a number of ways to riff off this design based on the results.

Still on the fence about picking up the bolt warmer today; but that might change in the next few hours. I've already wound a few coils that should work with the induction driver board that's on my desk right now. Have a few more laying around; and all of those should work for case annealing as well. Even without water cooling; they should be plug compatible with the bolt warmer. At some point I'll probably solder wires so I can connect them electrically and with water cooling in both systems easily.

Tried salt filling one of the 1/8" tubing coils; and it seemed like more trouble than it was worth. Not sure if it will help much, if at all with water flow rate. I didn't kink any of my cold bent coils yet. One thing I still need is some of that fiberglass sheathing. It would make coil winding a lot easier (so they don't touch electrically); and it helps with insulation when operating as well. Ordered 25' of tubing, so a roll of the fiberglass will be on the way sometime soon. I use Kaowool insulation in the other system; so I don't need the sheathe there. 

Images: Salt filling with a paper funnel. And one salt filled, and two cold bent 1/8" copper tubing dual layer coils. With a bit more practice and all that, this should be a shoe in. And likely even faster than what's shown in the video. Adding a second layer will reduce heating time significantly.

 

[Lane]

https://www.amazon.com/Solary-Magnetic-Induction-Automotive-Flameless/dp/B0851C6Q22/

This is only $180. But apparently comes with no case, and a lot less coils. Shouldn't I have one so I can compare and contrast induction drivers?

I think so.

[Lane]

Food for thought. I'm not even close to being first with this kind of work....

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/homemade-induction-annealer.6966638/page-4

And that's page 4... I have quite a bit more reading to do myself to get back up to speed. But can reproduce almost all of that so far; and more soon. Frenchcreekvalley knows his stuff. Found him on some EE forums a while back; around the time he was doing this kind of testing.