Sub 9lb Rifle

[moagm316]

I am mainly lookin at building a poormans M110. I want to build a rifle that comes as close to the specs of the M110 as possible. Here are my thoughts.

At the heart of the gun I am looking at a either a 18 or 21" Noveske barrell. I called Noveske and they said that I could send the barrell in to them to have it fluted. They said that they would do a 7 flute which in the techs opinion would shave 10 ounces off of the 18" without sacrificing accuracy or barrell life. I did not ask him weight difference on the 21" Fluted.

As far as handguards I was looking at the either the JP VTAC or the Troy TRY Extreme. Any thoughts? I have a feeling that the TRX Extreme would be lighter.

I would go with the PRS Stock

MA10 Reciever coated in Nickel Boron

Armalite Bolt coated in Nickel Boron

BAD Ambi Selector

SJC Titan or some ofther muzzle brake or compensator.

RRA NM 2 stage coated in Nickel Boron.

Troy Industries Ambi Mag Release.

Troy Industries Ambi bolt release if it works or the Phase 5 EBR V2.

Tac Ops 1 charging Handle Nickel Boron Coated

Hogue Pistol Grip

Armalite LPK

Magpul 7.62 Pmags. YES THEY WORK ACCORDING TO MEGA. YAY SOMEONE GOT IT RIGHT.

GG&G Quick Detach Heavy Duty

XDS Bipod

Accushot Monopod

I have not made my decision on optics. I have not decided between the Leupold MK4 or the Trijicon Accupoint.

[moagm316]

Remember that Sub 9lb is my goal. Any thoughts as this is my first .308 build.

[imschur]

Looks good. FWIW the PRS is pretty heavy. I cant say where that will put you in the weight dept.

[Robocop1051]

The Magpul PRS weighs in over two pounds, and the monopod has to weigh over a pound as well. That's probably 4 lbs by itself. I'd stick with a standard A2 if weight is important to you.

There are lighter handguards available too. DD,  SWS and Apex just to name a few.

[Jgun]

I think sub 9lbs for a .308 AR with a 21" barrel is going to be hard to achieve. I have a MA TEN .308 AR that I put together using a 14.5" Noveske fluted Afghan barrel. It has a 13" Noveske(SWS) rail, and I used the ACE Hammer stock. My rifle weighs a little more than 9lbs as configured (empty, without optics). As stated above, I'd stay away from the PRS if lightness is a priority. I could shave at least a pound off mine if I went to a CTR stock, and even a few oz. more with the Ace ARFX stock. The Troy rail is not too heavy but there are lighter options, I think the VTAC and the APEX are both lighter, and there's always a carbon fiber freefloat tube if you want the lightest option. Christianson, has a CF railed handguard that is supposed to be the lightest railed handguard option, but I have yet to handle it, besides which, it's pretty pricey.

[moagm316]

I was leaning twoards the 18" Noveske. From what I have heard it has the same muzle velocity of a 20" normally rifled barell. Any thoughts?

[moagm316]

The 9lb would be rifle only. My goal is to get my gun as close to what an M110 is or better without breaking the bank.

[Robocop1051]

You are aware that Noveske barrels don't fit most gas blocks, right? I noticed you didn't have a specific one picked out, so you might have decided to keep/use the Noveske supplied gas block.

As for "velocity"... Noveske uses polygonal rifling. Polygonal barrels have been known to have slightly higher velocity over their traditional counterparts.

[moagm316]

I will be using the factory installed gas block.

[moagm316]

The Apex interests me very much. Are these of the same quality of DD?

[Robocop1051]

I have a DD (ext mid) light rail and the Apex Rifle length tube.

Due to the weight and girth, the DD feels like it should be more secure. The Apex is deceiving with how light it is. No worries though. The Apex is a solid piece and very well designed.

[moagm316]

The apex site reports that the rifle length weighs 10 oz with hardware. I will be running the noveske 18" it says that it is a carbine gas system. Is there any advantage to using the longer rifle length rail?

[Robocop1051]

Reasons for the phallic handguard:

1. Do you compete? If you do, the longer HG will protect your barrel from whacking into barricades.

2. Do you plan to use a bipod? Bipods limit available hand space. They also work better when mounted closer to the muzzle.

3. Are you using picatinny mounted sights? The farther apart the sights (longer sight radius) the more accurate the rifle.

4. Do you have an ugly barrel or gas block? Let's face it, sometimes you got to put a paper bag over head. Hide the ugly as much as you can.

5. This is the most important... Do you like how it looks? If you like it and you want, get it. If you don't like it, pass tiil you find something better.

[edgecrusher]

Reasons for the phallic handguard:

4. Do you have an ugly barrel or gas block? Let's face it, sometimes you got to put a paper bag over head. Hide the ugly as much as you can.

you have experience here i take it  <lmao>

[Guest LLArms]

As others have pointed out - some of your key items are going to put you way over 9lbs.

We could help you a bit better if you could give us the rifles weight completely factory spec. Then we can start adding/removing ounces and pounds based on additional items.

If we take into account just the mono-pod and Magpul PRS we are talking roughly a 6lb rifle prior to adding those.  No extras, no optics, just a stock rifle.

You should re-group this from scratch because I don't think you are going to be anywhere near goal.

[hobbesgunner]

I've used the PRS stocks to add weight to balance a gun out....think it would be last choice in a lightweight build....you considered any of the ACE stocks.......have a Skelestock on 6.8 Rem. I built for deer hunting, kinda like it..

[moagm316]

This is supposed to be a precision rifle. I like the PRS, but maybe the new Magpul MOE stock would be better. Is the Gator guard really that much lighter than the Troy TRX? I cannot find any weights for the TRX, but I find it hard to believe that the Gator Guard is 10 oz with the barrell nut. I have tried to find some more detailed reviews of the Apex with detailed weights. I also cannot find any difnitive weights for the TRX 308 either.

[Robocop1051]

I have the Apex Rifle Length Gator Grip. I remember that when I got the box in the mail I laughed saying, "I hope it's not empty." That HG is very light.

I used Magpul polymer 5-slot rails to add side rails (VLTOR ModPod) and a 7-slot for a bottom rail (I really like AFG's). I installed an Apex rifle length top rail. Although if I had it to do over again I would've skipped the top rail. It's just extra weight with very little purpose. Another polymer 5-slot would've sufficed for my front MBUS.

[Guest LLArms]

Maybe its just me, but I prefer my "precision rifles" to be as heavy as I can get them (but still mobile).

I mean part of the "precision" puzzle is having the rifle act as a solid foundation with as little "roll" or "torque" when firing. Rifle handling skills aside, only heavy equipment is going to full utilize this.

There is a reason the Barret .50's weigh 39lbs - partly to hold it together under stress and the other is.... (can you guess?)

I'll keep the lightweight stuff to my "tactical" carbines.  <dontknow>

Edit: I remember a Remington 700 I had in 30-06

What a friggin' beast. No matter how good my "position was" when that round fired it wanted to take that 5lb rifle and take off towards the sky or torque heavily to the left right.

Muscle will only take you so far. I can't imagine what a 50BMG round would feel like launched out of a sub 15lb rifle. Ouch.  :o

[Robocop1051]

I agree that weight helps accuracy. I just think that that rule is very 20th century. With modern 21st century technology you should be able to make your rifle lightweight, sub-MOA and still pop like a small cal rifle.

The 17" rifle length barrel was my first move to reducing felt recoil. Next I have the CS spring, a CWS inside a stainless steel carrier, and an Enidine buffer. My last option was to use the BABC. I decided that for my use, I needed follow up shots more than a brake. Otherwise I would have done the Cooley.

I agree that I could've made my rifle lighter, but at the cost of reliability. In the end, this rifle still has to function as a patrol rifle.

[Guest LLArms]

You would imagine in our lifetime that tech would be easy.

But I think it boils down to this; you are firing an object with a massive amount of force. Springs, buffers, shocks, recoil absorbing doo-dads are only going to take you so far till you are firing a round to big for them to be effective.

The answer? Bigger springs, bigger buffers, bigger shocks, bigger recoil absorbing doo-dads.

Well what happens when things become bigger? They begin to weigh more.

Oh I'm sure someone has invented some sort of carbon fiber diamond strength super absorbing shock-o-matic rifle.  Probably cost $100,000s of thousands of dollars too.

There is something to be said for a precision rifle weighing a truck-load. It just "feels right". If its too lightweight it just doesn't sit right with me.  <laughs>

[Robocop1051]

The answer? Better springs, better buffers, better shocks, better recoil absorbing doo-dads.

I don't agree that bigger always equals better. While that is usually how technology starts. It's only a matter of time (and $$$) before someone scales down and makes the part out of unobtainium.

Don't get me wrong though. As far as weight goes, I absolutely love the look of your design. I absolutely see the purpose of its application and I look forward to its completion.

[Guest LLArms]

Its all good - I did not even cross my mind that you were implying anything on our design.

Our products are half visual and half performance. Our mission statement clearly says we are not out to re-invent the wheel. We don't see the need to release yet another cookie cutter design. Most applications now are the same basic shape and dimension with vents/holes cut in different patterns.

Bigger, meaner, more aggressive looking (and so forth) is our goal. I guess we are kind of like the artsy fartsy producers of the industry.  <lmao>

[Robocop1051]

All those reasons are why I like it. Bigger, meaner, more aggressive.

I hear that's how 98Z5V picks his future Exwives?! <lmao>

[edgecrusher]

oh no you didn't!  :laughing4: