22-250 AR10 Platform, No cycle

[Steve S]

50 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

The only company that I know of that ever pulled off a functional 22-250 complete gun, right from the factory, was Olympic Arms.  

Well this one certainly didn’t function as planned from the beginning but I kinda knew it probably wouldn’t. Something to work on and get it done up nicely when finished. Appreciate all the insight and help . 

[98Z5V]

12 minutes ago, Steve S said:

Appreciate all the insight and help . 

No worries = that's literally why we're here.  With the info, we can get this gun running.  

[shooterrex]

This is from BCA's website for the 22/250 uppers.

[jim3326]

And if that's the true gas port size, it's to small. @98Z5V will give you the correct size. Guaranteed

[Albroswift]

When it locks back, something to look at does it locks fully on the bolt face or does it lock on the edge of the carrier.

[Steve S]

Okay, here are specs requested;

Bear Creek Armory Upper Carrier Group with 22-250 22” barrel

gas port is .082

gas length I would call it mid barrel. 
8” from barrel tip. 
gas port pipe is 15”

[Steve S]

Ejection is not the issue though. 

[Steve S]

Boltface

[Steve S]

Internal depth of extension is 7”

[98Z5V]

5 hours ago, Steve S said:

Internal depth of extension is 7”

I'm working on a number for the gas port diameter that should work.  What's the length and weight of that buffer?  It has to be 2.500" long, and I'm betting it weighs 3.8oz.  Need confirmation.  You're going to need a Sprinco Orange spring for the proper recoil spring on large-frames running the 7.000" extension.

[Steve S]

I will be able to weigh in a couple of days. I will order the orange spring. Will get back to you on the buffer. 
thanks!

Edited December 28, 2022 by Steve S

[98Z5V]

18" rifle gas .308 Win barrels with 0.750" journals need right at 0.095" gas ports.  20" rifle gas .308 Win barrels with 0.750" journals need around 0.090" gas ports.  It's a range of about 0.005" of a window that will get you running right.  I list the number in the middle.

A 22" rifle gas .308 Win barrel with a 0.750" journal would need a gas port about 0.085". You increase dwell time, then you need to decrease gas port diameter.  

You go down in caliber, you go down in gas port size.  My 20" rifle gas .260 Rem barrel is 2 caliber sizes away from .308 Win, has a 0.750" journal, and runs a gas port diameter of 0.080"  You're pretty far away from .308".  About 5 caliber sizes away.  

With that barrel combination, I'm seriously estimating that you'd need a gas port around 0.060" for that barrel config and caliber.  There's no shrinking the gas port diameter, so it's time to buy a good adjustable gas block.  You're gonna need it.  Recoil system definitely needs addresses, and corrected, in order to run the gas port diameters that I suggest.  Recoil system has to be straight first - but both systems also need to be balanced.

 

Now, here's what I think is going on with your gun...   That thing is a speed demon.  That BCG is hauling some serious ass, because it's WAY overgassed, AND it's under-recoiled.  I'll bet that's the H1 buffer in there, at 3.8oz, and that doesn't belong in a large frame at all.  You need an H3 buffer (5.4oz, or as close to it as you can get) to control the ass and mass of the large-frames, when under recoil.   So, you're way overgassed, it's under-recoiled, the BCG is just screamin' inside that upper.  It's going so fast that the bolt catch can't catch it and lock it back, and it's going so fast that it's not stripping the next round - the Mag spring can't get it up there in position fast enough for the bolt face to grab it.

Best buffer to get easily is the KAK Shorty heavy buffer, which comes in at 5.3oz.  It's easy to get.  Best overall buffer to get is one from Clint at HeavyBuffers.com.  The one you'd want is the first one on this page linked below, comes in at 5.5oz - it's the CAR-10 Buffer:

https://heavybuffers.com/ar10carbine.html

That's my honest assessment, and opinion...   

Edited December 28, 2022 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, Steve S said:

gas length I would call it mid barrel. 
8” from barrel tip. 
gas port pipe is 15”

A 15" gas tube is rifle length gas tube.  8" from the end of the barrel makes sense, for a 22" barrel.   If it was a 20" rifle gas barrel, that gas port needs to be 6.875" from the very end of the barrel.  Or it's made wrong.  

[98Z5V]

24 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You increase dwell time, then you need to decrease gas port diameter.  

You go down in caliber, you go down in gas port size.

The opposite of both those statements is true, as well.  You decrease dwell time - go to a shorter barrel, same gas system length, same journal size - then you need to increase gas port diameter.

You go UP in caliber, all things being equal, then you need to go up in gas port diameter, to a certain extent.  Caliber plays a definite role in this, because of barrel wall thickness - but caliber isn't the first thing you need to look at to figure out a proper gas port diameter.

Based in this information, my 18" rifle gas 7mm-08 barrel with a 0.750" journal will need a gas port that's right around 0.090", in order to function with a recoil system that's designed for large frame ARs, and in order to balance the two systems.   We'll see where it's at when the barrel gets here.  I'm pretty sure I'll be drilling it up.

[98Z5V]

7 hours ago, Steve S said:

Boltface

Is this after a one-round shot, or is this from you locking the bolt to the rear?

To me, from this pic, it doesn't even look like the bolt catch will touch the follower in the magazine, on the last round, to move the bolt catch up and lock the bolt back.  Hell, the little "tang" on that bolt catch barely looks like it extends to the edge of the magazine, let alone be long anough for the follower in the mag to push it up.

You stated you got three magazines with it, and you were asked what brand of magazines you were running.  The answer was "the 3 that came with it."   That's not a brand of magazine.  Who's mags are these?  Who makes them.

This is turning into Waterboarding.  I'm just sayin'.  We're having to extract information from you, in order to solve your problem - and we've given you the template that lists the amount of necessary information that needs to be provided to solve this kind of issue.  Please, even if it seems silly, oblige.  Help us help you here.

Before going any further here, please confirm that you've read this thread right here, and understand it.  Not trying to be insulting - trying to help you...

Read this and then confirm that you've read and understand it - this picture below is an actual link to a thread we have here - click the picture, and the thread will automatically open:

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by 98Z5V

[Steve S]

Okay then, that’s a lot to work with, thank you. I will get started on these recommendations and get back you in a few weeks. It will take a bit of time but some really great info that I am going to put to use. What you state makes perfect sense to me. I appreciate the time and effort you have put in to this for me. 
thanks again!

[Steve S]

Yes I read it.

the mags are from BEAR CREEK ARMORY. They came with the upper/barrel assy. 

[Steve S]

This was from me locking the bolt back. 

[98Z5V]

I'll be honest with you - this is starting to get quite difficult, with this.  Several detailed things have been asked of you, that should be simple, and we're not getting the direct answers to the direct questions that have already been asked.  We're literally starting to waterboard you for pertinent information.  My patience with that will run thin, and I'll blow this thread off.  Completely.

We're trying to help - you're not giving us the level of information that's required to help you solve your gun problem, over the internet.  There's a reason we have these standards in place, and that reason is to be able to fix guns, over the internet, from written words and possibly pictures, from the person with the gun problem. 

No other place online will be able to solve this problem for you.  Nowhere.  This is the place to fix it, and fix it right.  But we need your help in that.

I hope that makes sense, and you understand that.  

6 minutes ago, Steve S said:

This was from me locking the bolt back. 

What exactly happens, with one round in the magazine, when you fire the gun?  Does the bolt lock back?

I don't see how it mechanically can lock back, from one round in the mag, from the pics of the bolt face on the bolt catch.

Edited December 28, 2022 by 98Z5V

[Steve S]

I do understand and I am attempting to send what you all are asking for. I am not familiar with this thread and getting to all the responses. I do appreciate what you all have done so far. I will be using your info to make these changes as to what you have described . I did see and check out the link and that was very detailed. I will do my best to send you what you ask for. 
thank you again, I really do appreciate the detail you have sent over. 

[Steve S]

I am sorry, just saw the above.

I can’t answer that as I don’t remember if it did lock back or not. I don’t think it did.  I will have more info when i test fire it again before I make some of the changes . I want to systematically make these changes as you have detailed out. I will post the details as I get it done. 

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, Steve S said:

thank you again, I really do appreciate the detail you have sent over. 

Here's an example that will help you out - I want you to try it.  All I did to quote you right there was highlight what you said in that last post -left mouse button, drag over words, let go.  After I did that, I highlighted just that phrase from you what I wanted -and right away a "quote selection" appeared below it, down and to the right.  I clicked that.  And your quote showed up, at the top of this post I'm making.

That's the forum software, in action.  try it out, quote me, highlight a section of words I just made in this post, and reply with that quote.

This is gonna streamline this process, and help you answer people that are asking you questions.  You can do that over and over, and quote multiple people, and answer those questions after every quote that you make of their questions.

Quote me - highlight something, reply to it, try it out.  

I'm putting more work into you than I normally do with other people.  I'm trying to fix your gun, and I know I can.  Help me help you.

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, Steve S said:

I am sorry, just saw the above.

Read all the way to the end before you answer the first thing you see - things come up all the time.  Questions come up from people all the time.  Don't respond to the first thing you see - read it through, all the way, and use the multiple quotes and answer each question.  

[Steve S]

Just now, 98Z5V said:

Read all the way to the end before you answer the first thing you see - things come up all the time.  Questions come up from people all the time.  Don't respond to the first thing you see - read it through, all the way, and use the multiple quotes and answer each question.  

Is this the correct way? I clicked on quote 1. On my cell phone. 

[98Z5V]

That works.  Did you see the post I made before the one you quoted?  We were replying at the same time, so I had 2.

Edited December 28, 2022 by 98Z5V