TomBruto Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hello all, I am building my first long action AR, I refrain from saying AR308 because i cant decide wheather it should be a 308 or a 260. Does anyone have any experience with the 260 in this platform? Or maybe the 6.5 creedmore. I know these 26 cal bullets are preformers, what i dont know is how much damage they do on medium sized game, mostly wild hogs. I know the 308 does the trick effectively. But i have wanted to build a 260 for a while now and am just wondering if it would work well in an AR. So any info on accuracy, issues, terminal ballistics, range, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoGringo Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 First, gotta know what you mean by "long range hunting". What kind of ranges are you talking about...400, 600? Both the .260 and the 6.5 Creedmoor work well in the AR platform. The .260 is a necked down .308 and the Creedmoor isn't much different. I recently read an article analyzing both calibers and their performance was almost a wash. I would say it mostly comes down to ammo. If you are shooting commercial ammo, .308 hands down would be preferable. .308 is sold everywhere and is easy to get with lots of options. If you handload ammo, the hardest part will be finding brass and .260 brass can be made from .308 pretty easily. I think Creedmoor can also, but don't quote me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBruto Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 It is good to know that these rounds function well in the AR platform. I would like to be able to make an accurate shot at 1000 yds, i realize this is a stretch for a gas gun, but if i build a 1/2 moa rifle, I would be confident I could do it. Most of my shots will be in the 300-700 yard range, but i would like it to be capable of further. I will be reloading mostly, but will try some factory ammo. I have a 308 boltaction and love it, just was wondering if the 260 has any advantages over the 308. I have alot of 308 brass that i can resize, and i know that lapua started making 260 brass, though i am not sure i want to be flinging it out of an automatic. I think i read that article also, did it also compare the 6.5x47? What i dont know is what kind of damage it will do to a 300+ lb hog at 630 yards. I would most likely be shooting heavier high bc bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 This is just my $0.02As a bullet gets smaller, the requirement for bullet placement becomes more immediate.The .260 is a long distance performer, and if you were whackin' coyotes at 800 yards I think you'd be right on the money. The flatter trajectory and aerodynamics of the bullet are perfect for long range.Hogs are another ball game. They are tough and girthy beasts. When I'm shooting under 100 yards I stick to a 44 or 45 caliber rifle. Personally I like lever guns, and been known for using 45-70 and 444 Marlin for some of the larger oinkers. Although a 45LC or 44Mag is more likely. As I get out further I trust my .308 for damn near everything I can hunt in North America.If you want a reliable cartridge that will drop a +200 lbs beast out to 1000 yards, I suggest the .338 Federal. It uses the .308 win brass as well, and is fully compatible with the AR format.I think the .260 can do it, but the shot placement is going to be more paramount than if you were using the larger bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 ^^Robo just nailed that one, I agree 100% <thumbsup>Well unless you want to build a 338 Lupa ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBruto Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks for the info, I want to stay away from the 338 federal. I hear that round isnt that accurate, but honestly I would like a little more velocity even if it was. I just think those .264 cal bullets are sexy as hell. I know the smaller bullets require better shot placement but I was never one to aim for center mass. I am almost anal about shot placement. I prefer head, neck, then shoulder in that order as range increases. Another round I thought of is the 7mm-08, but there is not enough difference between that and the 308 for me to go that rout. Might as well keep the ammo availability of the 308. I have always thought the 260 had potential, just wasn't sure if it could be achieved in a gas gun. Maybe I should just stick with the 308. Honestly the only thing that is steering me towards the 260 is the fact that I already have a 308, and my addiction tells me to try something new. Actually, I also was thinking of lighter recoil for follow up shots. But I guess I can always get a 260 barrel down the line.Blksheep, I almost jumped on the 338 band wagon with my buddy, but decided I needed a high powered automatic instead. I am happy at 1000, I don't need to go out to 2000 just yet. When I decide to build my 338, it will probably be the .338 Norma mag improved. It's on par with the lapua, but with a more efficient case so it uses less powder and the brass is half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asphttp://www.fd-defense.com/fd338 ;D <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asphttp://www.fd-defense.com/fd338 ;D <thumbsup>new forum rule… i don't want any more posts of the fd-defense gun. ever, or else…. i'll buy one and be killed in my sleep by cromaboo..for sure... :o man that gun is so sexy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 new forum rule… i don't want any more posts of the fd-defense gun. ever, or else…. i'll buy one and be killed in my sleep by cromaboo..for sure... :o man that gun is so sexy <lmao> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I built a 260 on a RRA platform about 6 months ago. I haven't had much range time because of snow. It shoots well under 1/2" at 100 yds. While I have great respect for both the 308 and the 260, the only thing "I" personally would shoot at 1,000 yds is targets, or something attacking me. Just my .02 . Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojodiablo Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 It is good to know that these rounds function well in the AR platform. I would like to be able to make an accurate shot at 1000 yds, i realize this is a stretch for a gas gun, but if i build a 1/2 moa rifle, I would be confident I could do it. Most of my shots will be in the 300-700 yard range, but i would like it to be capable of further. I will be reloading mostly, but will try some factory ammo. I have a 308 boltaction and love it, just was wondering if the 260 has any advantages over the 308. I have alot of 308 brass that i can resize, and i know that lapua started making 260 brass, though i am not sure i want to be flinging it out of an automatic. I think i read that article also, did it also compare the 6.5x47? What i dont know is what kind of damage it will do to a 300+ lb hog at 630 yards. I would most likely be shooting heavier high bc bullets.For a hog of that size, the 308 is already marginal past 200 yards. At 600+, shot placement becomes incredibly critical. For 'yotes, as was mentioned, you will be just fine. As Robocop says, girthy..... onery is another way to put it. If it were me trying to take that shot?? 30-06 or 7mm mag or more. The least I would want would be the 338 AR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 For a hog of that size, the 308 is already marginal past 200 yards. At 600+, shot placement becomes incredibly critical. For 'yotes, as was mentioned, you will be just fine. As Robocop says, girthy..... onery is another way to put it. If it were me trying to take that shot?? 30-06 or 7mm mag or more. The least I would want would be the 338 AR. Whoa! lets look at facts , source = Federal Ammunition Ballistics Catalog7mm mag,175gr, Ft lbs of energy @ 500yards=119430-06 , 180gr, Ft lbs of energy @ 500yards =1299308 , 175gr, Ft lbs of energy @ 500 yards =1265338F , 180gr , Ft lbs of energy @ 500yards = 1200The 308 can do the job. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 +1 for factual data from a valid reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoGringo Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think i read that article also, did it also compare the 6.5x47? Yep, we read the same article. I couldn't remember the 3rd caliber, but that's it. Unless I was some super, match winning sniper professional who has been trained by Delta, SEALs AND the Spetznatz and I NEEDED the meat, I wouldn't try a shot on live game from any farther than 400 yards, unless you're just trying to eradicate vermin and not concerned about ethical kills or finding the animal afterwards to take the meat home whether using the .308, .260, 6.5 Creedmoor or .338 Federal. Pigs are tough and the shot has to be on target. Too much can go wrong between me and a pig 400 yards away. Killing paper is a different thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I tend to agree that as much as you can close the distance, you should. However, the reason we kill so much paper is so that when the time comes we can be comfortable taking that 600-yard shot. I guess it's all in how you look at it. Myself, I don't want to make a killing shot any farther than I absolutely have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired JM Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 If you want a reliable cartridge that will drop a +200 lbs beast out to 1000 yards, I suggest the .338 Federal. It uses the .308 win brass as well, and is fully compatible with the AR format.I think the .260 can do it, but the shot placement is going to be more paramount than if you were using the larger bullets.Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!The .260 (and 6.5 Creedmore/Grendel) are great competition rounds, but for hunting medium-large game at distance, I think you'd be better served by something in the .30-.35 caliber range lest the hunter become the hunted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBruto Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I agree, after much thought over the weekend, and all of yalls input I have decided to stick with the original plan, 308.For all of the ethical hunting questions, the primary reason for this build is to eradicate as many wild hogs on a west Texas ranch as I can. While I will always opt for an ethical kill, I will not pass up a chance to remove one more because of distance. The terrain is very rocky and nearl impossible to travel over quietly, so stalking is impossible. What I have is a hill top that overlooks a very important canyon for them. It is one of the few natural pathways where you can get out of the river bottom, and there are 3 feeders in it, the farthest one being at 640 yards. I have been using my savage 10 FCP, 308, and it can do it with good shot placement easily. But I think I can get a few more with an automatic.Blksheep, I was unaware such a thing existed! Thank you for enlightening me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Just to play devil's advocate to myself...I had a conversation with my father, just this afternoon, about this topic. He was a LEO Sniper for 17 years, of a 34 year career. While he is now retired, when it comes to shooting, the man has surgical skills. After listening to my argument about the .260 Rem vs .308 Win, he provided his little input. Three years ago he shot a 900+ pound Elk with a .257 Roberts at 500+ yards... I was silent... He said he'd love to shoot oinkers at 600 yards with a .260 Rem.His results are not normal, as he has an inhuman amount of training. Just pointing out that if you have the skill, the bullet will do the rest of the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBruto Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 RoboCop, I like your fathers style. I have read articles that say the 6.5x55swiss has taken just about every big game animal that walks the earth. Though not at extreem ranges. The 260 is supposed to be nearly identical, ballistically. I am building a precision rifle, and regardless of bullet choice, i hope it is at worst a 1/2 to 3/4 moa shooter( with decent ammo). Those may be bold assumptions, but that is my goal. Also shot placement is paramount for me. But I have found, it is much more devestating to shoot something in the head with a 308 than a 223, and i would expect it to be better than the 260 as well. The saying, "if it aint broke, dont fix it!" comes to mind, or "If a little is good, alot is better!" I will most likely build this rifle in 308, and probably rebarrel my savage to a 260 down the line. I always figured on a bolt action 260 anyways.Thanks to all for the input. I hope to be posting pictures of my build as it comes together. But it will most likely be a slow process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have knocked around the idea of a 14.5" (16" OAL) .260 Rem. I think that would be the ultimate California hunting rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired JM Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have knocked around the idea of a 14.5" (16" OAL) .260 Rem. I think that would be the ultimate California hunting rifle.Sorta like a "precision" ranch gun with a low to mid-power variable optic to keep the weight down, like a 1-4x, 1-6x, or 1-8x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Exactly! A buddy owns a cattle ranch over here. He has a 'yote problem that he invites his friends over to assist with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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