LR308 upper w/sight problems

[ripper51]

I have and LR 308 in A2 configuration lower and A3 upper. Upper came with the carry handle and A2 sights. Tried mechanically zero- not good. Rear sight windage all the way the right, elevation was adjusted at the front sight first and left the front sight almost out of the base. I checked and re-tightened the carry handle to be sure of an even fit. Same results. Contacted DPMS and shipped it back. Arrived on Sep 12 and has been worked on since. DPMS isn't very good about communicating status are they? I get the usual 7-10 days estimate no matter who I talk with. Polite folks but non-informative.  I have one more full distance High Power match before winter sets in and wanted to use this if possible. Am sort of disappointed.

[ripper51]

After making my apologies to Mike & all at DPMS, was please to find a package in the mail today. Turns out the barrel was twisted in the original upper along with a couple of other issues. Nice folks replaced the entire upper. I'll give you all a shooting report this weekend.

[edgecrusher]

awesome! glad to hear it.

[ripper51]

Received the upper and put it all together. Went to range. Discovered front sight post bent to right and ears crushed together slightly. Makes it impossible to raise or lower front sight. I will locally obtain a replacement sight, then try it out benched. Hope it wasn't tested with bent post at DPMS. Good hunting and hold hard.

BTW, no outside damage to shippers package and it hadn't been opened prior to arriving at my door. Sometimes things just fall thru the crack and no matter what you do to make it better, stuff happens.

[98Z5V]

Sound like the original front sight base was canted, and someone tried to put it in a vise and "un-twist" it.

Since you're running the A2 front sight base, just pick up the Armalite clamp-on A2 front sight base, and mount that.  You can adjust/straighten that thing later when you need to.

I'm running that one on two different rifles now, just for the fact that "it's all me" when setting it up.  <thumbsup>

[ripper51]

I can fix the problem with a replacement sight post or if need be, replace the entire front sight assembly. Just sad that they didn't do it right. Of course some would say I brought it on by my early criticism. <dontknow>

[98Z5V]

A replacement front sight post isn't gonna fix a canted sight base.  Don't think that is what you should chase, here.  Get some pics up, of the sight alignment (rear/front), if possible... 

[ripper51]

Shipped it back again. Received it back again. Repair order said they replaced the front assembly and front sight. Talked with them- Mike- and it appears the barrel was twisted when screwed in - not timed correctly in my armorer's language. While they said they provided a new upper, an examination shows a couple of my marks from my first time disassembling it. I installed a Bob Jones rear hooded sight with aperture and lens, then trued up the installation to zero the rear. Took it to Capitan and at 200 yards it was at 11 o'clock outside the 5 ring, 5 shots in a 2 inch group. Tried using the front sight first to lower elevation. Could not get it to move. Used all 4 of the A2 sight tool I have but it appeared the legs were too short to reach the plunger stop pin and the notches in the base. It appears I have a long or extended front A2 sight. I will be replacing it with a NM front sight post.

In emails back and forth, we pretty much agree the sight in there is extended and I need one of the tools that have a hole all the way thru. Frustrating to wait on the back and forth shipping that goes ground UPS. I Fedexed it the last time overnight to them.

I am NOt being super critical as I do understand it is hunting season, and just about everyone is trading for DPMS . Keeps them employed and happy but cuts down on the service ability. I also understand that they have some torrential downpours this time of year which keeps them from test firing until the frogs stop drowning.

Overall I am back to where I was when I started this thread. Looks like I'll do the repairs and replace the front post. I am trying to keep it in the A2 config so as to be consided a service rifle when I am competing.

[unforgiven]

<munch>

[ripper51]

OK found copy of target DPMS enclosed as proof they had test fired. Ragged grouping spread over about 4 inches at 11 o'clock outside their rings, If this is at 100 yards or even 25 yards, the original problem still exists- the rear windage will be all the way over to the right against the rail on the right and will leave no windage adjustments. Hope someone from DPMS reads all this. This isn't looking good for them. Going to the range now and will post my results.

[ripper51]

Range results.  wind zero to 5 from 9 o'clock. Temp 67, humidity 23%. Time 0900 local, shadow on target - 100% Sun at 1 O'clock in my face. 5 rounds Magtech 150gr FMJ  11 o'clock 7 ring, group .74inch. 25 yrds. Looked like a five leaf clover. Using my trusty 1/8 punch to hold down the pin, I changed  the front sight rotating opposite UP. About 5 complete revolutions which should have moved it 2.5 inches down after shooting 5 shot groups each time and moving the front sight, I finally got it at 9 o'clock 9 ring. Moved rear windage over the equivalent of two inches. 8 clicks. Punched the center out.

Repeated with 168 Sierra Match Kings from Hornady and Federal. Low of course by about 1 inch but still in 10 ring.

Moved target to 100 yds. 150gr Magtech opened a little but now about 1.5 inch high. 168 punched out center of target. Tried 175 GMM. 2.5 inch low groups between 7 and 5 o'clock. Probably was my shifting my elbow. Moved over to 200 yds range. Using Sr Target prone with sling groups were slightly opened to about 3". X's and 10's with all. Still have an issue being about 6 clicks right of center for mechanical zero, but it won't get addressed by DPMS I feel in my lifetime. Next step is to free float tube, handguards and barrel then try again. I was using the sling with moderate but not heavy tension and do not believe it wil affect twist or barrel. Free floating removes that.

Still debating sending it back to DPMS again but probably not worth my expense of shipping. Think I'll clean it up and sell it.

[ripper51]

The saga continues. Set targets at 200 yds- SRC Hi power type. Put LR308 in LeadSLed and commenced to shoot 5 rd groups, then 10 round groups. No wind, groups were all over. It appeared barrel was dancing. Took off handguards, checked barrel- it was HOT!!!! naturally. Barrel was loose. Tightened everything I could think of.Checked alignment for gas flow- OK. Tried 10 shot groups. Cloverleaf holes in X . Got excited. If 147/150 gr M80 Military would do that, what would 168 SMK in federal Gold Medal do? Loaded Mag with 20 rd with intent of 2 10 round groups. First round an X, and a jam, first round did not extract. Cleared, tried again, again a jam after round fired. Not extracting. Took bolt apart, well lubed with BreakFree, as was rest of rifle, bolt cycling just no extraction taking place due to broken extractor- lip sheared off clean. Called DPMS- they will send extractor. Ordered free float tube, extractor and spring from Midway- it'll be here tomorrow.Midway says they have a lot of orders for LR308 extractors and replacement bolts. Checked Brownells who confirms the same. Asked DPMS if they were having a problem, and the answer was...... not much. Someone is fibbing. The indications I have are the following:

1. "we replaced your entire upper as the barrel was twisted." If so, the marks I made when disassembling the rear sights and front sights must have been copied over to the new upper. Also the underside of the bolt carriageway had a dimpled letters "MS" they copied over as well.

2. "We straightened and fixed everything."  And then shipped me an upper with a front sight post bent over and front sight ears pinched together by vice grips.

3. " we spent x-hours gunsmithing to fix the front sight and ears". And then shipped me back an upper with a loose barrel.

My trust, respect and etc have dimmed considerably. I'll fix this rifle and correct it's issues before I sell it but I will sell it, and will suggest folks look elsewhere for quality AR's in 308.

[N Jensen]

Sorry to hear of the problems with the rifle, sounds like the gas block is not perfectly vertical. A little left or right will make the no wind zero be way off. You mentioned "Capitan" range, would that be in NM? I shot there last fall with my 6.5 Creedmoor LR match rifle. The extractor breaking is odd, I never experienced that problem myself. I had shot some hot rounds where the case was stuck in the chamber, but the extractor ripped the rim of the case completely off. I reduced the load after that experience. Had a friend here had an issue with his LR308 barrel/chamber where the ammo was just to hot while in another rifle it was fine. DPMS replaced the barrel for him. One of my 3 match rifle uppers were assy by White Oak Arms by John. Have you considered talking to him about your problems? He might have some solutions for you. He has built some M-110 rifles and still may have some barrels on hand ready to install. Over all I had very good experience with the LR308 and 6.5 creedmoor guns that I have. I have shot both of them from 200 to 1,000yds without any issues. Just sorry to hear of all the issues you are having.

[ripper51]

One of the reasons why I went with DPMS was I liked the 556 models and was impressed by one of you all that had the Lr308 when I was at Capitan this past year. New Mexico, yes. I had tried an AR10 by Armalite and wasn't fond of being nose-pounded. Also tried a couple of others and settled on this one. When it shoots, it is magnificent, but I am beginning to believe this was a hang-over Monday or a just before a holiday Friday produced rifle. DPMS has promised me a replacement extractor, but given their past performances, I hedged my bets and ordered spares from Midway. Hoping this turns out better. May give white Oak a call.

[unforgiven]

Sorry to hear you'r problems haven't been resolved brother ripper, check these guys out.  http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=  Good luck brother.

[N Jensen]

I really liked the Capitan range, great rifle match as well. I couldn't make the rifle match this year, but trying to plan for next year though.

I wanted to suggest a mod to the front sight assy. Instead of the pins that hold the assy on to the barrel. The holes are tapped and set screws installed. With a flat spot in the barrel the set screws are adj in or out on the respective side to move the front sight assy left or right. Which will help you have a mechanical no wind zero. Another possibility is the front sight assy was not made right and is not square vertically.  That would be a reaching to find a problem but should be ruled out. 

My first LR308 I bought was a panther model that bought to get the parts only. I never planed on shooting it as a 308. I had white oak arms install a 6mm barrel and chamber it in wildcat cartridge based on a 22-250 case. It's a little shorter than a 6X, but works just fine. I did by another panther model and made it into a match rifle, White Oak arms turned the barrel down for a front sight and installed a hand guard that has a slot for the hand stop. With a A1 stock with a A2 but plate the LOP pull is just right for me. I did install a hyd buffer, heavy spring, and adj gas block. That combination really took recoil out of the rifle, with 155 MK with .500 BC it works real well at short range and the 175 or Berger 185 for 600yds. Keeping the gas rings wet with CLP after each stage the rifle shoots very well, in the 780's easily and cleaned the 600yd stage several times.

I guess with all the problems you are having, I can see LR308 as a target rifle a big turn off for you. It's expensive I know, went through building 3 of them. Feeding problems of my creedmoor upper was hardest problem I ran across but I figured it out. Don't give up, Talk to John at White Oak Arms.

[ripper51]

It may already have the set screws. Hard to tell under the gobs of rifle finish.

[N Jensen]

I don't think so, looks pinned to me. White oak arms can modify it for you. For a tid bit of info, way back when the AR-15 service rifles were replacing the M-14/M1A rifles for competitions Compass Lake Engineering originally glued the front sight assy on the barrel to prevent the tension of the pins from putting stress on the barrel. But, not every time a customer had the perfect rifle where the mech zero was actually no wind zero. To many rifles came back to be reset so the idea of set screws replacing the pins  came about. Doesn't take much to adj the front sight to be perfect or within a click or two of windage adj.

I'm sure white oak arms could do something for you on this. Also, talk to him about making it into a turn copy of the M-110 rifle to meet the NRA rules as a service rifle. New barrel, correct front sight clamp on, 4 rail 12 inch long hand gaurd. You have the rear sight carry handle, have him install a NM rear sight and pin it. You would have a reall good rifle then, it does cost but everything will be high quality in the end.

Neil

[ripper51]

It was pinned. Calling White Oak in morning. And thanks to all. I am determined to make this as close to an M-110 as is possible.

[98Z5V]

If you go the set screw method, you have to machine barrel flats into the barrel.  Pic below.

[ripper51]

Have those already. Thanks.

[98Z5V]

You have a pinned barrel that also has set-screw flats machined into it?

EDIT - On a standard DPMS-shipped rifle?  You need to look at that thing closely...  DPMS doesn't machine flats into standard barrels.

[ripper51]

Heavy barrel. Not standard. I ended up with it but DPMS confirms it shipped this way. Supposedly so I could convert gas blocks<?????>

Just put a Free float tube on it. Now need to find the sling set up that looks kinda like a hose clamp with a 1 1/2 sling swivel under. Goes around the free float tube.

[edgecrusher]

Now need to find the sling set up that looks kinda like a hose clamp with a 1 1/2 sling swivel under. Goes around the free float tube.

??????

If you are talking about something like this, it goes on the buffer tube…. otherwise you have me stumped

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/slings-sling-swivels/tactical-sling-mounts/m4-oem-sling-mount-black-sku100004383-27641-53471.aspx

[Robocop1051]

??????

If you are talking about something like this, it goes on the buffer tube…. otherwise you have me stumped

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/slings-sling-swivels/tactical-sling-mounts/m4-oem-sling-mount-black-sku100004383-27641-53471.aspx

That's the one I bought for my AR15. It works ok, but if I had it to do over again, I'd buy this one... HERE