168 Barnes tac tx

[survivalshop]

Went to seat some of these bullets today & they stick in the seating stem & pull out of the case . WTF. Never had a bullet do that before .

 

I even cleaned & lubed the seating stem , still doing it . It is a slightly compressed load of 45 gr. of IMR 4064.

 

Seated a 168 gr. Hornady Match bullet , no problem . 

[Tripledeuce]

    Sounds like not enough neck tension.   Whats the dia. of your expander ball?

     Either that, or plastic nose is getting stuck in the seating stem.

     Respectfully

     Terry

[Ben Diss]

I had this before and it was the neck tension.  What sizing die are you using?

[survivalshop]

If it was neck tension , why would the Hornady bullet not have a problem ? The barnes bullet has to be wiggled out of the seating stem & I have loaded thousands of rounds with this die & never had a problem . 

 

I did use a Redding bushing sizing die , but have also used it before with out a hitch.

This is my first loading of this bullet . I have loaded other Barnes TTSX bullets before with out a problem . Wonder if the bullet shape is different than a normal TTSX bullet, it is a different configuration ,from what  they say .

 

I'm going to try a different seating stem or two.

[Robocop1051]

I wouldn't trust any of that ammo.

I'll do you a huge favor. Package up all those proj's and whatever you've loaded so far. You can ship then directly to me. I'll dispose of them all properly.

I'd hate to see you just get disappointed

[Tripledeuce]

 Mike the diameter of the bullets, and the expander ball.

  Respectfully

  Terry

[planeflyer21]

Can you see exactly where it is sticking, i.e., on the tip or on the ogive?

 

What dies are you using?  I would start by backing out the depth of your expander ball a hair at a time.

 

Jon

[survivalshop]

Those bullets stick on every one of the seating stems I tried , including a 270 seater. My 300BLK was the only one it wouldn't stick on , until I tried to seat the bullet to a proper depth for COL.

 

I'm beginning to think its the compressed load of IMR 4064 . I'm going to check my charge & then I'm going to load one with WC 846 powder , that I normally use.

 

And thanks Robocop , but I'm beginning to like disappointment & I haven't been able to load one round , with this bullet .

[survivalshop]

I couldn't find any different loading data at the Barnes sight , so my load should be correct ,but its the compressed load that's causing the problem.

 

I loaded a round with 39 gr. of WC 846 & had no problem loading the case.

 

I put the original seating stem back in the 308 die & it worked , as you can se , with out a hitch , normal seating .

 

Now the difference in load in the case of course is big , you can hardly see the WC 846 in the case at the angle of the camera shot , but the already compacted 45 gr. of IMR 4064 is clear .

 

 

I'm , according to the Barnes reloading manual, a full grain under max for a 165-168 gr. bullet. This bullet is shaped different than there other TSX bullets ,according to there sight.

 

I have used IMR 4064 quite a few times with a 308 cartridge. Just have to find a way to seat this bullet with IMR 4064.

 

Going to email Barnes & see what they have to say.

[planeflyer21]

That's a buttload of compression!

 

<munch>

 

Jon

[Jgun]

Have you considered modifying the seating stem so that it doesn't contact the plastic point of the projectile? If it's already got clearance there, perhaps the bottom edge angle needs to be changed so that it can't "grip" the projectle?

[survivalshop]

Its not the point or Polymer tip , I think the bullets shape is letting it wedge in there. Not sure exactly what part of the bullet or how much , but it gets stuck good some times when I tried the different seating stems .

 

I have to email Barnes . 

[survivalshop]

I have done some further testing & finally had a successful seating . 

The dies I used to load this ammo are new Redding type "S" full length sizing die set. The expander ball on the Redding is 0.3065" .

 

I took a measurement of my RCBS sizer die with a Carbide sizing ball ( a free floating sizer ball that was I think, offered by Hornady , a long time ago, maybe twenty years ago  ) it is 0.3060 " , so there is little difference between the two & may just be my measuring + or -.

 

Now the neck sizing bushing I ordered for this was specifically ordered to give more neck tension for a solid copper bullet , not a Barnes or any of the big names , a no name bullet . Had a bunch of them for free.

 

The instruction say to measure the outside dis. of a loaded round & subtract 0.001 - 0.003" from it to come up with the correct bushing . I went with the lower side & got a 0.329 " bushing ,by far ,more than I needed , I figured , for the measured dia. of a loaded round of WW brass was 0.335".

 

Would be tight & I have loaded many WW brass with this combo , successfully. Now the LC brass loaded , I find & should have known is, 0.340 "& its because of brass thickness , so there is part of the problem. Something in the spring back or other is going on with the LC brass.

 

I think I may not have set up the Redding die for case shoulder set back properly also (used there instructions ) I set up my old SB RCBS dies , removed the depriming pin , lubed the sample cases by hand & resized them . Charged a case with 45 gr. of IMR 4064 & seated a Barnes ,tac tx bullet to COL.

 

I could feel , it still wanted to stick ,but its in there.

 

My brass sized with the Redding , chambered , but was very difficult to un-chamber .  The RCBS sized brass un-chambered with ease. Same with a loaded round , the Redding sized brass ,loaded round would not completely chamber ,no matter what bullet . The RCBS loaded brass , had no problems.

 

So One thing I will do is adj. my Redding die by my way & not there's & maybe get a couple of different size neck bushings for it.

 

This bullet is really long & Barnes may say not to use 100% density powder charge with it , which may make some sense , I'm awaiting the reply. 

Edited July 14, 2013 by survivalshop

[Jgun]

I have not used the Redding bushing dies, right now I've only got the small base full length size die, but it sounds like your situation is just what these dies, with the ability to switch bushings to adjust the neck size to match the different cases and different neck tension needs, are made for. I'm not doing it so I've got to try to imagine what is causing your bullets to stick in the seating stem, but I would think that if you were able to determine exactly where on the stem it's gripping, perhaps you could chuck the stem in a drill (if no lathe is available) and polish the surface so that the stem seats on a wider surface area of the bullet and prevents it from "gripping" the bullet. You're going to have to share your solution with us here. I may be trying these bullets in the future, and I don't have the bushing dies and would like to be able to load with the small base die if possible.

[survivalshop]

Response from Barnes. 

 

Mike
   That bullet has a kinda unique ogive we call it the Match ogive.  I would recommend pulling out your current seater plug and take some fine grit sand paper and take the edge off the leading edge of the plug, this usually solves the problem you are having.


Thanks,

Ryan Farr | Consumer Services
Barnes Bullets, LLC

 

 

 

 I will try to chuck it up in my drill press & polish the inside of the seated plug.

 

I also think I have multiple things going on to compound the problem , but will take care of them also.

[survivalshop]

The polishing of the bullet seater worked . I started with 44 gr. of IMR 4064 & worked my way up to 45 gr. with out a problem.

 

Now having said that , I also resized all of them with my std. SB. RCBS die & had to re-trim all of them( 0.004 " ), not sure if that's was because of the small base die, the Redding is FL . The shoulders must not have been set back correctly with the Redding die. I really don't think that would make a difference in the seating , because both expanders are the same dia.. 

It may be something with the sizing bushing in the Redding die , as said I will get a couple more to see if it makes a difference or not . The shoulder set back is probably just my bad. Some times you have to use the instructions as a guide & not a written in stone kind of thing . 

[planeflyer21]

<thumbsup>

[survivalshop]

Went to the range yesterday & the Barnes bullet shoot well ,but my loading of WC846 shot much better . I loaded 44.0 ,44.5 & 45 gr. loads with the IMR 4064 & 39 gr. load of WC846 & although the IMR 4064 shot decent , there were slight high pressure signs on all loadings with it .

 

I could load the WC846  up ,a little more & I plan on reducing the loading on the IMR 4064 & they may shoot better , I plan on starting at 42.0gr. & make a couple above that by 0.5 gr. to see if loading improves & maybe not so much of a compressed load.

 

Just for comparison , Temp. 91 deg., no wind .

 

308 cal. , 168 gr. Barnes ,TAC TX , 45 gr. IMR 4064 , LC brass , CCI primer.

AVG. VOL.--- 2700 fps.

ES ------------50 fps.

SD -----------21 fps.

 

308 cal., 168 gr. Barnes TAC TX  ,44 gr. IMR 4064 ,LC brass ,CCI primer

AVG.VOL. --2673 fps.

ES -----------52 fps.

SD -----------24 fps.

 

308 cal. , 168 gr. , Barnes ,TAC TX ,39 gr. WC846 , LC brass , CCI primer .

AVG.VOL. --2438 fps.

ES -----------32 fps.

SD -----------12 fps.

 

308 cal. , 168 gr. SMK , 39.5 gr. ,WC 846 ,LC brass , CCI primer.

AV.VOL.-----2503 fps.

ES -----------12 fps .

SD ------------5 fps. 

The above SMK will print one hole groups @ 100 yards  all day, as did the Barnes  168 gr. TAC TX did with the 39 gr. charge of WC846, So it looks like I'm going to drop the load of IMR 4064 & bump up the load of WC 846.  Than test some more. 

 

[planeflyer21]

<munch>

[survivalshop]

Loaded some more test rounds last night & the compressed powder charge is still giving me problems . I had one bullet back out a little by the time I set up the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

 

Another thing I do not care for with the compressed load is that you have to reset the seating stem deeper for a compressed load , probably because of the same pressure spring back that unseated the one bullet above. 

 

This bullet is long & I don't have these problems with a standard Match 168 gr. bullet. These test loads better shoot very very good for me to use the IMR 4064 with this Barnes bullet .Too much BS to deal with , to get the same results of a different powder , like Ball powder .

 

[.308LiteHunter]

Did you shoot any yet? It's only been a year...

Edited August 17, 2014 by .308LiteHunter

[98Z5V]

^^^  Instigator...  <lmao>

[Magwa]

LOL!!!

[survivalshop]

   Done shot all of the ones I had loaded & not impressed with them . Could be me , the loads or the rifles , but no load I loaded up printed very good groups . I'll stick with Hornady , SMK's or Noslers & I like barnes hunting bullets . These bullets are made to have less deflection when penetrating barriers or other structural materials & may not be the best for grouping, not sure , but I won't be buying any more for testing .

 

  You only get fifty for the price of a hundred with other manufacturers , so testing is not cheap .I'll see if I can find the photo of the target.

Edited August 17, 2014 by survivalshop

[.308LiteHunter]

Done shot all of the ones I had loaded & not impressed with them . Could be me , the loads or the rifles , but no load I loaded up printed very good groups . I'll stick with Hornady , SMK's or Noslers & I like barnes hunting bullets . These bullets are made to have less deflection when penetrating barriers or other structural materials & may not be the best for grouping, not sure , but I won't be buying any more for testing .

 

  You only get fifty for the price of a hundred with other manufacturers , so testing is not cheap .I'll see if I can find the photo of the target.

Thanks man. I've been wanting to try some Barnes but they are little pricey.