michael1778 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Hello, Thanks for checking this out. I want to give my proposed use case and parts list for what would be my very first 308 ever, let alone a 308 AR. I've built my own AR15 lower from plain parts and am about to make my own 18" barreled 3-gun upper from mostly scratch. The upper receiver is fully assembled since I could get a great deal on a brand new one. OK, the use case would be 3-gun (Heavy Metal division) competition. Realistically, I might use it for that 6-8 times a year, max. I expect to be in Optics instead of Irons. If the match rules allow a 1x optic for HM Irons/Limited division (happens) I might play there if the course design is appealing. But that's ok if I don't shoot the daylights out of it. I've wanted to have a 308 for a while so I might as well have it. I'll use it when I'm in the mood. The goal is a relatively lightweight, compact, and rifle length gas 308 AR. On to the proposed parts list for your opinions and feedback: Receiver Set: SI Defense matched set Barrel: 16" Fulton Armory/Criterion ultralight profile barrel with rifle length gas system Muzzle device: Insert your opionion here (I've considred a Nordic Corvette, SJC Titan, and a Battlecomp, among others) Very hopeful for more ideas. Gas block: Syrac adjustable 0.625" Handguard: Thinking Troy TRX, an Apex, or perhaps a Lancer carbon fiber one for 308 frames. Open to suggestions Buffer tube: DPMS rifle length stamdard Buffer & Spring: JPSCS-10 AR-10 Silent Captured Spring Bolt Carrier Assembly w/ Bolt: Complete bolt carrier assembly JP .308 Low Mass Carrier and JP EnhancedBolt Stock: Magpul MOE rifle [edited to add: fixed riflestock] or perhaps an ACE ARFX skeleton.....thoughts? Grip: Ergo Tactical Deluxe (matches what I have on my competition AR15 lower) Trigger: AR Gold 308 (but I'm open to other recommendations even though it matches my current AR15 competition lower) Charging handle: BCM or the Mech Armor Lower and Upper parts kits: Suggestions? Where are they in stock? I use JP LMOS bolt carrier and the captured springs in my competition AR15. That is why I lean that way for the 308. I'm not religious about triggers so change is allowed. I thiunk I'm open to constructive feedback or other suggestions everywhere. But in particular any place that has bold is up for heavy discussion. Might be able to get this around 7.5lb before optics. I look forward to your ideas since you all have MUCH more experience with this than I have. Thanks in advance for your time and assistance! Edited July 31, 2013 by michael1778 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 IMHO... The BattleComp BABC is superior to all. You should look at the LMOS buffer and spring vs the captured/silent system. Take a look at the Geissele SD-3G too Magpul CTR is a much better choice than the MOE. I actually like the ACS-L the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I agree with Rob on the BC. Also the JP compensators while nothing to look at are quite effective. I also agree on the ACS-L. Putting one on my Armalite very soon. If your running a ATC/Pact trigger on the AR I would stick with it for the .308. Same with your pistol grip. Something to be said for keeping them the same on competition guns imho i have an AR15 and a DPMS assembles as nearly identical builds I used the Ergo Tactical deluxe on both. I like them on my bench guns. If you want a single stage trigger and want to save a few bucks I think the CMC is one of the best values going. Most days the BAD CASS selectors, Tacops CH,SR Golds, MOE+ pistol grips are my defaults. Then theres days I buy other stuff just to be different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 If you want a single stage trigger and want to save a few bucks I think the CMC is one of the best values going. I have two of these. They are great triggers. Only negative is the flat versions are difficult to use with a Phase5/Magpul battery lever. The lack of a curved trigger loses a lot of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) IMHO... The BattleComp BABC is superior to all. You should look at the LMOS buffer and spring vs the captured/silent system. Take a look at the Geissele SD-3G too Magpul CTR is a much better choice than the MOE. I actually like the ACS-L the most. Given that I currently use the captured system on my AR15, I'd like to know more about the recommendation away from it. I have a strong dislike for the buffer spring noice in ARs. But this is 308 AR Land, so I know not everything from the 223 world translates the same. I have an ACS on a different rifle and like it very much for an adjustable. It's my preference for adjustable stocks. I grabbed one of the early MOE fixed rifle stocks (not the MOE adjustable). It's not pretty, but seems very stable on my 223 competition lower. I'll fret stocks as I get closer to assembly time. I agree with Rob on the BC. Also the JP compensators while nothing to look at are quite effective. I also agree on the ACS-L. Putting one on my Armalite very soon. If your running a ATC/Pact trigger on the AR I would stick with it for the .308. Same with your pistol grip. Something to be said for keeping them the same on competition guns imho i have an AR15 and a DPMS assembles as nearly identical builds I used the Ergo Tactical deluxe on both. I like them on my bench guns. If you want a single stage trigger and want to save a few bucks I think the CMC is one of the best values going. Most days the BAD CASS selectors, Tacops CH,SR Golds, MOE+ pistol grips are my defaults. Then theres days I buy other stuff just to be different I'm surprised at the strong recommendations for the Battlecomp given this will be a "game gun".....unless you guys are reading my mind that I might grab it if some bad Katrina-scale disaster were to strike my area. But for gaming, I would have thought something like a Titan or Rolling Thunder would be better for recoil. Worse for flash and noise, to be sure. Thanks guys. I deeply appreciate the discussion. Edited July 31, 2013 by michael1778 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Not familiar with the Titan but I think the Rolling Thunder is similar to the JP offerings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) AAC Brakeout comps are nice also. Very smooth on my AR-10 SBR (with a heavy buffer), along with the 15's that I have them on. Alot of different opinions on this. Alot of personal preference comes into play. Edited July 31, 2013 by Rsquared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 In my personal preference, there are only two muzzle devices out there. #1. The BattleComp. In any size (v1.0, v1.5, v2.0, BABC) is my most favorite muzzle device. This compensator eliminates absolutely all muzzle rise. This provides near instant follow up shots. My 25 yard double tap, with a single stage trigger, can get under 1". The second feature is that the BC's have closed front ends on them, acting similarly to a baffle. It doesn't take away the recoil, but instead changes it to a easy push instead of a sharp punch. #2: The JP "Tank" brake is a giant chunk of steel. It virtually reduces the felt recoil down to barely noticeable. The .308 gets reduced to what most agree feels like a .223. The big negative is that enormous side concussion. Better the brake, bigger the side blast. If absolute precision, at extreme range, was your goal... Or you were shooting a heavily punishing round (like the .50 BMG)... There is no subsitute for the "Tank" brake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 I may have found SI defense, Black Rain (anodized), and Black Rain (norguard) receiver sets available for sale. That assumes that "in stock" phrases on web sites don't lie. Any advantages of one over the other? Rail heights different? Any "hidden" differences that I should be aware? Thanks, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 <--- SI Defense fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 <--- SI Defense fan <----- Me too. My NiB BCG is just sweet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) <--- SI Defense fan Thank you for that vote. I had a very enjoyable and informative phone conversation with Lisa at SI yesterday. And thanks to you also, Matt. Edited August 3, 2013 by michael1778 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Lisa is an angel... And a Raiders fan!! I knew I had reasons to like her. SI Defense (and all the other northern MT companies) are top notch in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 I just threw up a little....Raiders fan. Barf. Totally killed this thread for me Robo...and there was soo much good going on here. Sorry Michael. We haven't derailed a thread in a while. Our normal derailer has gone offline for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 You guys are too much fun. :banana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I've got the Titan brake, as well as the BABC, and although both are effective, considering the fact that you're going to such effort to keep weight off the front of your gun, with the pencil barrel and lightweight handguard, I'd advise the Battlecomp, it's noticeably lighter. I haven't used the Lancer handguard and would like to try it, but the Apex is a very light handguard and feels really good in your hand (IMO).. Another option would be one of the new keylock handguards that are on the market from Noveske and others. I handled a gun with the Noveske handguard and it's very light (the handguard), although you may not find the stripped guard as ergonomic as the Apex or Lancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I've got the Titan brake, as well as the BABC, and although both are effective, considering the fact that you're going to such effort to keep weight off the front of your gun, with the pencil barrel and lightweight handguard, I'd advise the Battlecomp, it's noticeably lighter. I haven't used the Lancer handguard and would like to try it, but the Apex is a very light handguard and feels really good in your hand (IMO).. Another option would be one of the new keylock handguards that are on the market from Noveske and others. I handled a gun with the Noveske handguard and it's very light (the handguard), although you may not find the stripped guard as ergonomic as the Apex or Lancer. I'm really warming to the Apex Gator. Weight and design seem very good. In the muzzle break department, I've added the Seekins brake to the list for consideration. They are getting solid reviews from 3-gunners while being noted for not being as obnoxious as the Titan. If I don't do the 16" barrel, I might look at the 18" "lightweight" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I haven't had any experience with the Seekins brake. I see that Rainier has a sale going and they've got some of the Apex .308 AR rails in stock. I'm not sure if it's not available or just not offered by Rainier but I don't see any of the Noveske keylock rails for the .308 platform, only the small platform AR's Not sure if they are made for the large platform guns? My experience with the Apex HG is on a small platform 300BLK AR I built for comps, but I believe that Apex is using the same tube for both large and small platforms these days and only the mount is different. BTW, I went with an 18" pencil barrel (.625) for my build, and it's very light and handles very well, but mine is only a 300BLK, not sure how an 18" .625" OD .308 Rem barrel will perform, thats only .156" wall thickness I believe. My barrel maker actually made my barrel bigger at the very end so that the 5/8"-24 muzzle device would have a shoulder to lock against, instead of the end of the barrel. I'll be interested to hear how yours shoots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I haven't had any experience with the Seekins brake. I see that Rainier has a sale going and they've got some of the Apex .308 AR rails in stock. I'm not sure if it's not available or just not offered by Rainier but I don't see any of the Noveske keylock rails for the .308 platform, only the small platform AR's Not sure if they are made for the large platform guns? My experience with the Apex HG is on a small platform 300BLK AR I built for comps, but I believe that Apex is using the same tube for both large and small platforms these days and only the mount is different. BTW, I went with an 18" pencil barrel (.625) for my build, and it's very light and handles very well, but mine is only a 300BLK, not sure how an 18" .625" OD .308 Rem barrel will perform, thats only .156" wall thickness I believe. My barrel maker actually made my barrel bigger at the very end so that the 5/8"-24 muzzle device would have a shoulder to lock against, instead of the end of the barrel. I'll be interested to hear how yours shoots. Good information. Thanks very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdnevada Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Have you seen the Nemo Arms barrel? I was/am looking at the Fulton ultralight barrel and saw Brownells has the Nemo barrel. It's .750 vs .625 so it's a bit heavier. I thought the extra size would be good for a suppressor. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-308ar-nitride-barrels-prod54801.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR%20xzzx308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) I just put the NEMO 18" HBAR on a .308 build. I'm hoping it gets shot this week. Just gotta get the headspace gauge in there first, to check my work. The barrel itself is a beauty! The melonite finish feels great. Edited August 28, 2013 by Robocop1051 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdnevada Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 I just put the NEMO 18" HBAR on a .308 build. I'm hoping it gets shot this week. Just gotta get the headspace gauge in there first, to check my work. The barrel itself is a beauty! The melonite finish feels great. How did the barrel shoot? That's at the top of my build list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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