Jgun Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I've just loaded 100 rds of .308 to test in my LRB m25 build. I loaded 175 SMK's with IMR 4895 powder in new Lapua brass. The COL is 2.8" All of my rds fit the JP case gauge, and I tried a few in my rifle and they all chambered with no problem. I was wondering what the consensus is regarding taper crimping. I've read some info on it that is both pro and con. Some say that it should be done to prevent bullet setback because they will be used in an auto loader, others claim that it is not needed and will have a negative effect on accuracy. So, what do you guys do, crimp or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas30cal Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I always crimp, but use the factory crimp die from LEE most of the time, if there is a negative effect on accuracy I haven't seen it but I am not a sub MOA shooter too far past 100 yds anyway, I am doing good to hit beer cans at 200 and a paper plate past that. I have had some uncrimped 5.56 rounds not feed correctly for one reason or another and set the bullet back quite a bit from hitting something on the way in. It was in a ar but do not remember who's or what brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasprite Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I use a lite crimp with the Lee factory crimp die because I had the opposite problem, when the bolt slammed homed my bullets would slide out some like a kinetic puller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbasks Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I dont crimp much on non magnum cartridges. I champher and debur and just rcbs roll crimp . Lee factory crimps are nice but i find a good roll is adequate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I always lightly taper crimp anything going into an autoloader. Since most of my stuff is auto-loading, by extension, all my ammo gets crimped. I've personally seen the bullet setback in autoloaders, numerous times. Once, even by the mag-full. Depending on what gear you're using, you might already have a crimp die and not even know it. All the RCBS FL die sets have a taper crimp function built into the seating die. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) I also used to Taper crimp everything ,but Mag. Revolver , but I am doing testing on the Lee Factory Crimp Die & still don't know for sure which is better, if at all . Doing testing on Velocity & grouping , when I can get a chance . Edited October 7, 2013 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm using a Redding full length size die (non bushing die) and the Redding Micrometer seating die. I sized my cases and bumped the shoulders back to where the shoulders are on my new brass, and when I set the seating die, I backed the seating stem off, adjusted the die body down until it contated the shoulder (using a Forster CO/AX single stage press), and then I adjusted the seating stem until my 175's were set at 2.8" COL. I didn't get any crimp that I can notice on the brass. I have run it through my M14 type gun and so far have not detected any bullet setback. My present loads are pretty mild. I found the gun to be very soft shooting. I may experiment with a crimp, but I don't think this die has one built in. If I were to go for a crimp die, does anyone have any advice on which would give better results, the Lee .308 factory crimp die, or the Redding .308 taper crimp die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I asked my shooting buddies what the difference was between a factory crimp gauge and a taper crimp gauge, everyone says the are the same, can anyone here confirm that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 The Taper crimp die crimps by using a tapered area in the die body & by slightly & uniformly forcing the case mouth against the bullet . The Lee Factory Crimp die uses a collet type crimping , The differences are the case mouth is forced against the bullet & you can clearly see the indentations on the case mouth . It pushes from the side , unlike a roll crimp where the case mouth is folded into the cannelure. You can even put a grove in the bullet with out a cannelure . Not sure it can be done with a non lead core bullet , but I'll take a photo of the 168 gr. Hornady ( I pulled ) that put a nice grove in by using the LFCD. In my opinion the Lee can put a heavier crimp if you want , but can also lightly & uniformly force the case mouth against the bullet , like a taper crimp die. I guess I'm a convert , because I'm using the LFCD & not using the taper crimp die now a days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Be careful if you're using plated (not jacketed) bullets. I know a few people that crimped too tight with Berry's Plated, ended up leaving half the copper plate in the bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've used the Lee factory crimp gauge on my 300BLK loads due to the small amount of contact surface between the bullet and case neck, but .308 has much more surface contact. As a mentioned, since my initial post I have had a chance to get out and try some of my test loads, and there has been no setback. I posted this question somewhere else, and someone stated that SAMMI calls for a .307 neck ID on .308 cases, and that this gives at least .001" neck tension, and that, according to SAMMI, no crimp is needed. I may still do some experements with it, but for now I want to start working up some 30-06 loads, (never lloaded them before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Jgun, you'll like loading 30-06, but be ready for the shock... Powder goes FAST. You'll go through a pound before you know it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've heard that. and I'm going to have to spring for a case holder for my buddys fancy case trimmer. At least I've got the dies already, I'm just hoping that, unlike most of the other cals that I've loaded, I'll be able to save some money by loading my own 30-06, while at the same time as loading better rds than I can buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Its all about the neck tension being consistent also. You can't expect all brass to be uniform in resizing . A crimp, being taper or LFCD , will do that, at least at the case mouth area. Yes, @ the case capacity of the 30'06 , powder does kinda disappear quickly , but what fun ! I just loaded about a hundred with Barnes 150 gr. TTSX bullets & IMR 4064 & was filling the powder measure often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 All the RCBS FL die sets have a taper crimp function built into the seating die. <thumbsup> I did not know that. Good info, as I have lots of RCBS rifle dies. I always turned any rifle seating die body down until it just kissed the case neck, just to ensure an infinitesimal crimp, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I did not know that. Good info, as I have lots of RCBS rifle dies. I always turned any rifle seating die body down until it just kissed the case neck, just to ensure an infinitesimal crimp, nothing more. Yeah, brother - just like you're doing on the seating die now, to seat the bullet. Run it down until it just kisses the case neck, lock it down, adjust the OAL at the top, lock it down, seat bullets all day long. Running the taper crimp on them is a separate process (or another seating die in a progressive press). Run the die down until it kisses the case neck, run it down another 1/8 turn, test crimp one. If you like it, lock it down, run the top in until it touches your loaded bullet, lock that one down. Taper crimp all day long. If you didn't think it was enough crimp at 1/8 additional turn, run it down a little more, test crimp one until you're happy with it, and drive on the rest of the day. That's only on the Full Length die sets, brother - I'm not sure on the other RCBS seating dies. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Survivalshop, I don't have any 4064 right now. I was going to load with the IMR 4895 that I'm using for my M14 loads. Have you ever loaded 30-06 with 4895? I hear that those Barnes 150s are some of the best 150s available. I don't have any of them presently, but have plenty of Hornady jacketed 150s that I had planned to use in my first 30-06 loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Have you ever loaded 30-06 with 4895? Nope . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I did not know that. Good info, as I have lots of RCBS rifle dies. I always turned any rifle seating die body down until it just kissed the case neck, just to ensure an infinitesimal crimp, nothing more. I did a little more research into this, and called RCBS. Just to clarify, only their AR-series dies have the taper crimp built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Not sure what their AR series dies are, but the .223 Remington FL Die set has the taper crimp function, and the .308 Winchester FL die set has the taper crimp function. They have an instructional video out called "Precisioneered Handloading DVD" that clearly states all their FL die sets have the taper crimp function. This is the DVD: https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=6006 Do you remember who you talked to when you called them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Do you remember who you talked to when you called them? No. Should have said "contacted". It was an email response to their website form. Wish now I'd saved it. He was adamant that only their "AR" series had a taper crimp built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 I thought they were all roll crimp . I have RCBS FL dies sets that are very old & brand new & they all have the same wording in instructions . They just mention crimping , nothing about Taper crimping . I have special Taper crimp dies for .30 & .223 calibers. I can't find the ones that came with my SB die sets , but they will probably not be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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