spongecop Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Have a DMPS 308 18" Bull Barrel Upper on a POF 308 Lower. A2 stock.Gun shoots well but I noticed the face of the buffer is beat to hell around the edges. Like a small ball-peen hammer went around the edges. It is a full length 308 specific DPMS buffer with 308 spring.Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 This same exact thing happened on another type of .308. Here's the thread on the other one:http://308ar.com/forum/index.php/topic,659.0.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongecop Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I checked mine and the gap is minimal at best but yep, gap between BCG and buffer prob the culprit. Will see about that CWS to take up a little of the space. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacBlade Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I would say the upper or lower receiver is out of spec and not letting the bolt carrier push the buffer back off the detent that holds the buffer and spring in. Thus is causing the buffer to come forward and hit the buffer retaining plunger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabinetman Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Tacblade has the solution.I experienced this with an AR I had built. The upper and lower were not properly aligned because I was combining a big-hole upper with a small-hole lower. While the rifle would assemble, there was too much slop in the front hole, even with the shim I had installed. So, when you put the two together, the buffer face didn't "kiss" the rear of the bolt. That allowed the buffer to continuously whack against its "keeper pin". Eventually.....usually after five or six shots, the buffer would just blast past the keeper, shearing it off.Here's how to check.Make sure that the bolt is fully forward. Now open the rear pin of your rifle and allow the two halves to separate. Now slowly close the rifle back together and watch to see if the buffer face just "kisses" the rear of the bolt assembly as they just come together. That "kiss" moves the buffer face back away from the lower keeper pin. If they don't kiss, every time your fire and the bolt bashes the buffer back and on recoil, on the return the buffer is slamming into the keeper pin at the bottom. It should NEVER touch that pin unless you open the rifle by removing the rear pin. That keeper pin's job is to keep the buffer from springing out at you when you do take out the rear pin and separate the two halves. Your upper and lower can't be in spec if this is happening. Something is out of whack. I only takes a few thousanths for this to occur.Rome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 How does your pivot & disassemble pins fit ? That other thread had some ways to over come the problem & I think one was a plug or some thing for the Bolt carrier. I would make sure there is no slop in the pins .Some sort of bushing may be needed if they are sloppy in the holes .When we used to use the Colt lowers ( or uppers ?), we needed an off set pin to adj. the slop . I'm sure they still make them some where , but not sure they would help with your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabinetman Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 The offset pin is one way to make 'em work. I actually had a ferrule that was drilled on the eccentric and slipped into the hole. In otherwords, if you looked at it from the end, the hole was drilled off to one side which would space the upper and lower back and forth until you got 'em right. Once they met properly, I secured the ferrule with a special adhesive so it wouldn't move. My biggest concern is that the damage shown on that buffer head is pretty severe meaning that the front pin holes in the lower must be way off. This is something I had not read about when anyone discussed DPMS quality. And, it might not be a sloppy fit at all. It most probably is miss drilled but nice and tight. Again, the test will be closing it onto the rear pin. That bolt must kiss that buffer. If it doesn't than the result is precisely what he's got. I'm shocked......shocked that the pin hasn't been sheared yet. I went through two before I realized the problem.BTW is there ANY gap at the rear between the upper and lower? In examining my rifle, it seems to me that if there was a drilling issue, there would be a gap. The upper won't allow an error as it's just too close. The lower, however, could have had the holes drilled .005 too far toward the back. The telling sign will be a tiny but still noticable gap between the upper and lower and, of course, the lack of that "kiss" I mentioned.RomeRome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongecop Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 I appreciate all the help. After reading everyones posts I definately have too much of a gap between the BCG and buffer. This was my first 308 build and I did not realize they were not MILSPEC like the AR15s. The POF lower must me just a hair different than the DPMS upper. I am going to machine a plug simmilar to the CWS recommended that will take up the 1/32 gap as see what happens. If I keep it light it should noy upset the timing.This is the third issue I have had with the POF lower....not sure I would go that route again. May ebd up with a DPMS lower if I cant make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fngmike Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I haven't handled a POF personally but it is my understanding that they use smaller pins, smaller than .154 in their rifles. If you didn't put shims within the holes in your upper I think this is what would be causing the "play" which resulted in the damaged buffer. I know you couldn't use a POF .308 upper on a DPMS lower unless you opened up the holes to accommodate the larger pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacBlade Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I did not know that about the smaller holes in a POF? I wonder why they would of done that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fngmike Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I really like what I've HEARD about POF. They use Rock Creek barrels and are quite accurate I've heard. But if you look at what their prices are, you'd probably be just as well buying the eintire rifle rather than just the upper. As far as what I mentioned about their pin dimensions I would imagine it's just more proprietary BS to encourage you again to buy a complete rifle.I can't blame POF as I truly believe they make the best piston .308 out there. BUT I believe that they, POF, and LWRC, Larue, and LMT are all out of their minds if they believe they're tapping as much of the market as they could when all their rifles start around 2.5k.I guess they haven't heard of the economic downturn?Then again, as far as DGI vs. Piston? The AI AS50 is DGI as is practically every M4/16 in the armed forces. My justification for wanting a piston upper is simply cleaner running suppressed in the future. And again, that's what I HEAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I agree with you about pricing concerns and whatnot, but if you hang out long enough in places like Snipers Hide, you'll find out really quickly that the hardcore shooters don't seem to be even slightly concerned about what they're spending on hardware. Larue and POF and LMT all have no shortage of demand and because of their pricing, don't have more demand than they can keep up with, so they're pretty much exactly where they want to be. We budget people just have to budget till we can afford to buy that hardware at the most reasonable price we can find it for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fngmike Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Matt, very well put. And yes, I'm over on the 'hide too where everyone knows you can't shoot without 7k in rifle and optics. Is it just me or is that site really a private club and the rest of us are simply tolerated so we might buy something from their sponsors? LOL, mostly j/k, but they do have expensive tastes over there. Seriously though, I have no problem dropping the coins (if and when I ever have them again) on the optics, but if I WAS going to spend 2.5 or 3 grand on a rifle I'd be looking at a custom bolt or saving for a DTA SRS. To me, it's like pumping a bunch of money into a M14/M1A. You can do it, but that doesn't mean it will shoot any better than a $1,500 Panther or AR-10, or $500 Remington 700 for that matter. I just think those prices are ridiculous. Then again, isn't every AR or 1911 starting around a grand these days?Here's a link to what I was referring to about the shims for the OP of this thread:http://308ar.com/forum/index.php/topic,971.0.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have a Multi-cal lower (not 308, I'm going to use it for 300 black out ) & I wounder if its got odd size pins also ? I will look tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWshooter Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 If I remember correctly, someone makes a plastic piece that glues to the front of the buffer to absorb recoil or something. That would probably solve your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabinetman Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Any resolution to your problem? Rome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXAGG05 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Also curious about this as I just saw a GA Precision on Gunbroker with a POF lower, looked like DPMS style upper.On the note of the Hide, that explains a lot for me....just ordered an LR-308 about a week ago and then I ran across a thread or two over there about terrible DPMS quality (or lack thereof) that got me nervous. I don't seem to see as much DPMS bashing over here, or at least I haven't in the last few months while shopping for a .308 AR.Then again, I'm also not ready to spend $3k(before optics) on a rifle I might use once a month, or every other month maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabinetman Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Don't believe the bashing of DPMS or any other maker, actually. From early on, guys with legitimate but anecdotal problem rifles get on the 'net and complain making it sound every one from that maker is defective. DPMS is no stranger to having some quality control issues but they were ironed out way back when. Still, a rough or undercut chamber might pop up but any manufactuer will have errant products from time to time. DPMS will stand behind their hardware, however, and will work to resolve the issues. No, I'm not a DPMS investor or owner or employee. I do own an LR308b and love it to death. QC was supurb and accuracy is.....and one other poster said.....scary. So don't be concerned about DPMS on that reguard. The problem this fella had had to be a dimension one due to matching holes in the front of the upper and lower. I've had it happen on an AR 15 and this problem was identical.Rome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacBlade Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Just like any other product that is put out, there are going to be some flaws at some point. Welcome to the Forum TXAGGO5!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXAGG05 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks guys, hadn't had anything to post about until my friends got into my head. I think I found the pics that one of their brothers showed them of messy dremel work done by DPMS to a returned rifle on snipers hide. That's one particular instance and it was repair work and not poor manufacturing.I also found some bashing of DPMS on another forum and they included Rock River as another "cheaply made" rifle. I've got a 5.56 RRA that has been awesome, so I don't buy into it too much.Now I just have to wait a few months for my special order to enjoy it and post up in the pics section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hey guys just as a reminder and not directed towards anyone but I like to operate my sites on facts and proof and not here say and this thread is a great example with the Dremel but can be applied to other topics:It's just too easy for someone to service their own weapon and then turn around and point fingers at a manufacturer, gunsmith, friend, previous owner etc. We just have no way to verify these sorts of things without both sides on board. This public service announcement brought to you by a sick of shoveling snow admin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 This public service announcement brought to you by a sick of shoveling snow admin.And you questioned my logic about moving out of VA, back to AZ... <lmao> I got out of VA just in time... <thumbsup>"You don't shovel heat, baby!" <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXAGG05 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Haha, we're actually forecast to get snow(sleet) this week in Houston! We'll see.Sorry, should have clarified: Friend told me his brother told him not to buy dpms and showed him pics of "some work they did with a dremel", friend told me as if his bro has seen it first hand. Finding that post on SH relieved some of my stress because it now looks like big brother read that thread and relayed that heresay as first hand info. I had put too much stock in what my friend's brother said when he just read it online. That along with realizing that there was an entire community of happy LR-308 owners with very few complaints here, helped me relax about my newly ordered rifle.Sorry again about the misinformation, just wanted to share what had me doubting a decision that was 6 months in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 It's all good man <thumbsup> You just gave me an opening I have been waiting for. Thanks for posting and joining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 You just gave me an opening I have been waiting for. Troll... <lmao> <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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