Cali_Ed Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Hello all hopefully I'm in the right section. Will a cold bore shot always be your most accurate? I was at the range yesterday and my first shot was right in the middle of the bullseye circle, my second through fourth short where about an inch and a half to the right. I'm assuming it's my error on that part bench shooting just doesn't feel natural to me.i noticed as the barrel got warmer my shots got worse. I didn't let the barrel get to hot before I stopped, it was still touchable. How long do u guys wait inbetween shots or is there a cool down period you guys follow. Prone feels more natural for me but haven't made it to. Local range that allows prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) This could be a lot of things. If you keep a data book, you should always track your cold bore shift. Your knowledge of the cold bore shift is what makes it an accurate shot, not the most accurate. You can either drive the rifle to hit where you want it to or you can't, which is why I suggest precision rifle courses for newer precision shooters. I will say that an 1.5 inches is a little excessive (from my experience) It may be a combination of cold bore and cold shooter. Your coming off the rifle from your first shot then back on for your follow up. It may be that you strip your barrel of its bearing surface each time you clean it from the range. It could be that your barrel is more budget conscience for the type of accuracy/performance you are expecting from it. There are a lot of things at play....including your application of the fundamentals. I see shooters blame their equipment when they should be blaming themselves and other times shootings saying they pulled the 5th shot, which opened up their group, when the rifle (barrel) they purchased isn't capable of pulling off sub-sub-MOA. I don't expect my Mustang to keep up with a McLaren just because I properly apply the fundamentals of driving. Know your limitations....know the limitation of your equipment. Now to your question. I don't wait for a barrel to cool down between shots or any of that jazz. I shoot within time limits provided at the number of targets assigned to me. How your barrel manages heat can and will cause some adjustment/shift in POI...yes heat will affect accuracy. Now a couple of questions: Who is the manufacturer of this barrel? What is the weight/Profile of this barrel? What type of ammo where you pushing down the pipe? What type of support are you using to stabilize the rifle? Do you aggressively clean the rifle after each range session? Stain Edited August 10, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Unfortunately I didn't keep my target like I normally do so in could give you an accurate number in the change. I think it's me more then the rifle it's self. I'm planning on looking into some sort of instruction here in the near future. My barrel is from jp 22" medium countour with a twist rate of 11.25 . As for the ammo I stuck to only one kind this time and shot 175 smk 7.62 federal gold. For the front of my rifle I have a ggg tactical bipod that I think I wasn't preloading properly until I watched a video on it from snipers hide. For the rear of the rifle I use a beanie filled with 5lbs of rice. I'm starting to think the beanie was a bad idea because it's so flexible. Actually for my cleaning I just clean the bcg thoroughly and mayne run the bore snake in it once or twice nothing to aggressive. Maybe I under clean it? Hopefully I awnserd all of your questions thank you brother stain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 It sounds like you are working with good equipment. Try different ammo from different manufactures in different weights (match ammo that is) and see if there is any change. I tend to agree that the POI shift may be you at the moment (not trying to insult you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Yeah I practice makes perfect, but I'm not reloading yet so I can't go as often :'( Is there a diffrence between shooting 308 and 7.62 labled smk? Edited August 10, 2014 by Cali_Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah I practice makes perfect, but I'm not reloading yet so I can't go as often :'( Is there a diffrence between shooting 308 and 7.62 labled smk? As far has GMM 175gr is concerned I can't tell much of a difference if any. I will have to pilfer through an old data book to see, but I can't remember the difference being a remarkable event. It has been about 8 months since I shot either of those rounds. Edited August 11, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'll take 1 1/2" at 800 meters all day long...just sayin. Kidding aside, I have a hard time believing it's you with the gear you listed and the ammo you were using. Assuming all the information given is true, you should be punching much smaller groups. One shot shouldn't be enough to heat you up to where you're bouncing around that much. Loose barrel nut? Loose scope mount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Ah, ok yrah u think the ballistics are about the same. I have yet to shoot any match 150gr stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Try some 168gr. I know people wax poetically on the interwebs about its transsonic stability or lack thereof, but it still performs quite well in 10, 11.25 and 12 twist barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'll take 1 1/2" at 800 meters all day long...just sayin. Kidding aside, I have a hard time believing it's you with the gear you listed and the ammo you were using. Assuming all the information given is true, you should be punching much smaller groups. One shot shouldn't be enough to heat you up to where you're bouncing around that much. Loose barrel nut? Loose scope mount? I agree with this. Check your kit. My initial post worked under the assumption you had thoroughly checked your hardware before posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'll have to double check everything, I'm running a bobro mount, and use locate on the hex heads on the top of the rings. One thing that's kinda been bothering me is that sometimes it feels like the r icicle is slighty not straight... maybe I miss aligned somwthing? I used two bubble levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Buy two angle finders. One for scope. One for gun.http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=starrett+angle+meter&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=31614795517&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15100379430519947791&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_4f79v61g8r_e Double check with plum bob. Edited August 11, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'll have to double check everything, I'm running a bobro mount, and use locate on the hex heads on the top of the rings. Good, BUT... What did you torque the mounts to? I go between 25in/lb and 28in/lb on rings (depends on the rings or mount), and 65in/lb locking the mount to the rifle. That makes a tremendous difference, especially if you "just tightened them up." If you don't know the exact torque on those bolts, you can't rule it out of the accuracy equation. My numbers were INCH/POUNDS, not ft/lbs... Someone will see that, gloss over that detail, and break a mounting bolt. Then promptly blame me, when reading comprehension is the real issue... <lmao> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I don't own one of those small torque wrench looking screw drivers I may have to buy one I just tightens them as much as I could with the small hex he'd I got from bobro. I feel there's some wobbles between my lower and upper and then my stock aswell just slightly. I read the upper and lower are supposed to have some wiggle. Damn I hate this auto correct on my phone! ! Edited August 11, 2014 by Cali_Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/wrenches/general-wrenches/multi-torque-driver-kit-prod66350.aspx?avs|Style_1=Torque%20Wrenches&avs|Manufacturer_1=BORKA%20ENTERPRISES http://www.cabelas.com/product/Weaver-Torque-Wrench/1199958.uts?productVariantId=2901725&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=27-344845834-2&WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03166444&rid=40 You would't change your tire with a nail gun.....get the right tools for the job. If you are going to stay in the shooting game any length of time, you are going to need a torque wrench that does inch lbs. Edited August 11, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I feel there's some wobbles between my lower and upper and then my stock aswell just slightly. I read the upper and lower are supposed to have some wiggle. That doesn't come into play for accuracy, and excessive effects of wobble/wiggle would have very negligible affects on AR precision. Quality upper (barrel squared on receiver), quality barrel, quality trigger are the primary components. Freefloat is another highly contributing factor (over fixed handguards). Very little else is going to affect mechanical accuracy. Lock time comes into play (and that's in the trigger components) and dwell time comes into play (and that's up to the barrel manufacturer, as well as your recoil system, somewhat). Most everything else is the loose nut behind the trigger... Ratchet that thing down. <lmao> Bolt guns are a different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'll have to put an order in for one of those stain thank you for the links. I believe everything on this succubus is of quality, I think honestly it's coming down to user error I want to shoot prone so I'll have to figure out where I can. I also need to hurry up and get set up for reloading the guys at my range know me and let me sort thru the brass buckets for 308 brass. Got a bunch of 308 fed even though I've read it can be weak. Thank you for your responds gentlemen highly appricated!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 From what it sounds like, yeah...you have some quality stuff. I have another very cheap suggestion. Hit the range with someone you feel is a better shooter than you are, and see what they can put down. If they shoot waaaaay tighter than you do, it's you. If they get the same result...it's something on the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 ^ will do Thank you sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 If all components are secure & with in spec's , proper shooting technique & practice will make a difference in groups . As already has been said here , the cold bore shot will be a little off ,but shouldn't be very much , of course depending on range they are shot at. Whats the round count on the barrel ? I'm not a fan of bore snakes , they have the potential of redepositing abrasive materials already removed from the bore, not to mention what said particles could do to a nicely lapped match bore . Cleaning of the bore snake may or may not remove imbedded particles from the mop part .Bore brush & clean patches do the best cleaning . As long as you are not using a copper solvent , you should not lose your bore seasoning . According to the Army match Armorers , it takes 40 -60 rounds to re-season a bore to tighten groups after a copper solvent bore scrubbing. From there data , they go from 11/2" groups to 1/2 "inch groups after re-seasoning shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Round count is around 200ish maybe a bit less. I've only used ballistol to clean my rig. As for the bore brush should it be a brass or softer bristle brush? I know the material needs to be softer there the barrels metal. I've been meaning to get a rod but haven't determine which one won't damage the barrel or do u guys use a bore guide? I may also try to shoot of just a bag and see if that helps Edited August 11, 2014 by Cali_Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes. You should get a bore guide, coated rod (Dewey is my fav), a jag, and brass brush. I know some prefer the softer or synthetic, but I like those and I figure that if the piece of copper being hurled down the barrel doesn't ruin the lands and grooves, then the brass brush won't either......lol. I know it's flawed thinking....don't judge me :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes. You should get a bore guide, coated rod (Dewey is my fav), a jag, and brass brush. I know some prefer the softer or synthetic, but I like those and I figure that if the piece of copper being hurled down the barrel doesn't ruin the lands and grooves, then the brass brush won't either......lol. I know it's flawed thinking....don't judge me :-) You are on to something, ArmaLite recommends a brass brush and says not to use a synthetic. They don't explain but they seem to know what they speak of most often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.peace Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I like chrome lined barrels. And I remember in boot camp I ran a brass brush and patcch down that m16a3 20" barrel literally thousands of times and I qualified expert for my first time. I know its not .308 but I continue my cleaning process with my cl barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well as always the succubus requires me to spend more money on her :'( haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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