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New DPMS Type BCG for Aero, Palmetto Type Upper


guruofhotrod

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While following up on the Shadow Ops BCG I ordered quite some time ago (and still waiting for) I came across this:

 

http://shadowopsweaponry.com/products/278-308-caliber-762-x-51-bolt-carrier-group.aspx

 

8620 Carrier with a Carpenter 158 Bolt, Nickel Boron coated, with Notches/Serrations for the F/A on Aero and Palmetto

type uppers - Nice but a bit Pricey, Hopefully their lead time doesn't get too far out - looks like they're accepting pre-orders

and they will be "available" in 60 days

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While following up on the Shadow Ops BCG I ordered quite some time ago (and still waiting for) I came across this:

 

http://shadowopsweaponry.com/products/278-308-caliber-762-x-51-bolt-carrier-group.aspx

 

8620 Carrier with a Carpenter 158 Bolt, Nickel Boron coated, with Notches/Serrations for the F/A on Aero and Palmetto

type uppers - Nice but a bit Pricey, Hopefully their lead time doesn't get too far out - looks like they're accepting pre-orders

and they will be "available" in 60 days

I agree....Pricey.  I have learned not to do pre-orders unless the BBB gives the company an A.

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I hope so. When I saw the pre-order, it brought me back to the whole lower receiver saga. The pre order deal is what soured a lot of people on Shadow-ops...as well as Dennis lashing out on other forums when people started getting frustrated. I am of the opinion that you shouldn't use capital from pre-sales to acquire parts, but rather from investors or SBA type loans.

This is just an observation, please do not take it as being disrespectful.

Edited by StainTrain
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No, I totally agree Stain. Part of it was other problems as well - the credit card company holding 2/3 of the funds for months, then the inability to actually get billet material, then literally the head machinist attempted to sabotage production as he planned to basically buy out the shop when it went into bankruptcy court and own it himself. There was tons of nonsense, but I totally agree that funding should have been searched for from investors much earlier. We still have a pile left of the original lowers to finish and ship, almost 2 years later, which is not acceptable (well unless you're rock river arms :D). But we've finally started turning the corner, at least from what I've been told.

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just to give an example, when we asked the machinist to put together timelines for production of parts to explain the production timelines, the time for a single suppressor was something like 7 1/2 hours.... just the end cap was an hour, which is ludicrous. a full AR15 billet can be machined from a solid block in under 45 minutes.... His time on an ar15 lower was almost 2 hours.

silencer%20apart.jpg

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That sounds ridiculously high for knurling a tube and machining that baffle pictured.

 

Shibi...calling Shibi to the maching center.

oh it is, the new machinist has cut time for everything by more than 50%, for some things as much as 70-80%. Sad really, the old machinist was to be given partial ownership, got a sign up bonus and was well paid. Then chose to try and torpedo the business so he could buy out its assets cheaply. What a wiener. Oh yeah, and he hired his friends and his mom to also work there, running machines or deburring or whatever. With the whole "I really need people I can trust to ramp up production". Then even when he had the billet material, it too him almost 4 months to go from his prototype (with having g code for it) to being able to produce 5 a day, on an automated pallet loading $200,000 mill.

I swear, I may pop the guy in the jaw if I ever meet him. its just ridiculous.

And none of that really is an excuse on the delays. The owner should have had more control of the business, and should have even if he was going to be largely remote spent 2 weeks every couple of months there, or a week a month, or something. It would have totally changed what was happening if he had just done that. But he got bogged down in customer service because money was tight with the credit card company holding so much and just dribbling it back out to us.

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That sounds ridiculously high for knurling a tube and machining that baffle pictured.

 

Shibi...calling Shibi to the maching center.

 

Well, it's dependent on material. 

 

AR15 receivers are made of aluminum while suppressors are typically made of stainless steel at the bare minimum. Often, Inconel is used for the core/baffles for overall durability. Comparing aluminum and inconel, aluminum is like butter. Nickel-based alloys like inconel are a PITA to machine.

 

That said, I do have some suppressors in the works.... :D

 

2 hours on a lower - that's too high. 45 minutes is about right, perhaps faster if you know how to optimize programs.

Edited by shibiwan
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nah, it was purposeful, he wanted to see the company go broke.

On these supressors, the end cap + tube are aluminum with the core steel. that end cap probably shouldn't take 15 minutes to do.

 

In that case, yeah! 3-5 minutes max if the end cap is aluminum.

Edited by shibiwan
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If they canned him it already is catching up to him.  Here the manufacturing community is small and when people get a bad rep, it gets around.

Actually he walked out Dec 31st, along with the friends and his mom, leaving the shop short staffed by 4 or 5 people with no notice. It was a blessing really, it was after that when we started to discover the reality of his nonsense.

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Well, our basic plan is that once we get all caught up to current, we'll start offering something along the lines of "If your order doesn't ship within a week, you get refunded x% of the purchase price" with some disclaimers about custom engraving and it being under a week from when you get your FFL's license / NFA forms in. We figure that will both force us to stay on top of it and not let this happen again, and also give back confidence to buyers. We're looking at anywhere from 10-50%, just haven't really decided for sure yet. And similarly on any production pre-orders like we're planning on doing 1911s, the specific item would state what its time frame was and have a similar refund but still get item policy. We learned from the horrors of the last machinist not to put stuff up for sale till we're machining at full production rates.

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@EasyEJL, Thanks for the history of how Shadow Ops got into the mess they're in, it certainly puts some perspective on 

the long lead time on my BCG order, I do have a question about this new BCG - was it designed to compliment the new 

upper that Shadow Ops has listed, the version that has the F/A provision?

 

I wish you guys the best in getting production straightened out and look forward to the new products being in stock and

ready for immediate delivery! 

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Let me clarify, most DPMS uppers that used F/A used a design that located the F/A plunger in the brass deflector and had a single "step" on the bolt carrier for the F/A Pawl to work against, Recently some manufacturers (Aero, Palmetto) have adopted a configuration identical to the AR15 or Armalite AR10 with the plunger located back closer to the charging handle and the bolt carrier having a series of  serrations/notches along the side for the F/A Pawl to engage with. I'm curious whether the new Shadow Ops 308 upper with the F/A is of the newer style that is like the AR15?

Edited by guruofhotrod
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In my limited exposure, I don't think it was just one guy.  There was a guy on the guild that worked for them didn't do much to help their reputation.  I do want to add that the BCGs that we finally got actually run great and have not provided one second of trouble.  I think the company is capable of producing and acquiring decent products.  

 

I am sore that they bungled the lower receiver deal they had going, then came out with the deal coin thing to buy time or whatever reason.    It sounds like they are trying to get their house in order and when/if they do, I will consider purchasing from them.  

Edited by StainTrain
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