Polygonal Rifling

illusion · February 12, 2015

I am an ~~alcoholoc~~..er, no benchrest a-holic. From the disease I only consider something a group that makes a bug-hole at 100M.

In this case though, for a DPMS-.308 pattern, I'm looking for a barrel that will punch handloads in at under 1/2MOA c/c.

Is there any living proof that a polygonal rifled barrel is capable of this with handloads?

Black Hole Weaponry uses what is called Caudle 3 land polygonal rifling http://blackholeweaponry.com/.

Rainier Arms what they call a 'Select' [produced in Germany by the same mill as H&K] http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-selecttm-308-barrel-18-ss

I don't know the difference between the two types, but I have shot an H&K 5.56 at 100M that was impressive, but never observed a BHW perform. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated ::)

Robocop1051 · February 12, 2015

There's a reason why the top of the line rifles, known for making small jagged holes, DON'T use polygonal bbls

D.R.D. · February 12, 2015

Also, Rainier Select barrels are made by Black Hole Weaponry. I spoke with LaRue tactical recently, and when Mark LaRue began making the OBR barrels in-house instead of using Lothar Walther, they stopped using polygonal, stating that they found no improvements in performance. Now, Lothar Walther's top AR barrels no longer use Polygonal rifling either.

illusion · February 12, 2015

INTERESTING, sort of suspected that for b/r accuracy... I would think there would be an advantage in the 'tactical' arena [ie: leading/guilding, frequency of necessary cleaning, etc. if that were the main purpose] "Thanks"

Zebra644 · February 14, 2015

I'm thinking Lilja, Hart, Rock Creek, Krieger if your gonna run a bench gun on a budget use the 24 inch DPMS heavy barrel I have shot .5 moa groups using 168 FGMM at 100 yds with one. Match grade barrels are hand lapped, button rifled, bore scoped. also think about your velocity, weight so you can figure out barrel length and twist rate.

illusion · February 14, 2015

I'm thinking Lilja, Hart, Rock Creek, Krieger if your gonna run a bench gun on a budget use the 24 inch DPMS heavy barrel I have shot .5 moa groups using 168 FGMM at 100 yds with one. Match grade barrels are hand lapped, button rifled, bore scoped. also think about your velocity, weight so you can figure out barrel length and twist rate.

Well I backed off the polygonal rifling. I have owned four KRIEGER'S and they are great barrels. A little pricey for an AR platform in my mind. Went with a 20" RAINIER match that just came back in stock.

While rattling my head, I'll give your my opinion on LILJA. About 20 years ago when I first started to build bench-rest rifles I started with a LILJA 'cause everyone was raving about them. My 6mm barrel wouldn't group for $hitt, so I decided to shorten it a several inches. At that point I noticed the bloody muzzle hole was visibly OFF-CENTER. I called Dan Lilja and voiced my concern. He assured me (I was new at this game then) that ALL barrels commonly have the bore meander, even tho this was a supposedly a quality match barrel. He had me send it back to him. It was returned with the muzzle hole in the center ..after it had been re-turned around chamber/bore centers :'(

Still would not shoot for $hitt! I keep it in a drawer to remind me should I ever forget in my old age <hump>

D.R.D. · February 15, 2015

Was this the one you ordered?

http://www.vcdefense.com/20-308-7-62x51-nato-match-barrel-rainier-arms-ss/

If so, looks awesome - good price. I think it uses a Shilen blank, no?

Zebra644 · February 15, 2015

Really, I have never heard of Lilja having an issue, I am sorry to hear that. You can also look at Criteriron Barrels they aren't too pricey. Also Brownells they are selling a barrel made by a decent manufacture but their name escapes me at the moment.

illusion · February 15, 2015

Was this the one you ordered?

http://www.vcdefense.com/20-308-7-62x51-nato-match-barrel-rainier-arms-ss/

If so, looks awesome - good price. I think it uses a Shilen blank, no?

Appears to be the same, except I got it from the Rainier website. One of their people said it was ratchet rifled.. don't know who made the blank.

D.R.D. · February 15, 2015

Zebra644,

I too am curious who makes the Brownell’s 5R SS 1:10 barrels. Anyone know?

illusion · February 15, 2015

Really, I have never heard of Lilja having an issue, I am sorry to hear that. You can also look at Criteriron Barrels they aren't too pricey. Also Brownells they are selling a barrel made by a decent manufacture but their name escapes me at the moment.

Who knows, MAYBE it was the only $hitty barrel he ever produced.. But you have to admit the 'fix' would have left the same poopy taste in your mouth too. Used the barrel for a test-bed trying everything I could think of but it never got any better. Even went so far as to make a tension barrel out of it which was the final try... nice and light but same old junk as It started out.

I am a long-time BROWNELLS customer, but there seems to be a lot of griping on AR barrels they're selling if you take time to filter the feedback. <dontknow>

98Z5V · February 16, 2015

Hey, illusion, I'm gonna wait 4~5 years before I reply to your post here. Then I'm gonna make my reply. I have info that will benefit you, but it has to wait.

Or, we can make a deal. Here's the deal. You STOP replying to schit that 4~5 years old, STOP awakening old-ass threads, and I'll reply as soon as I see that happen.

Deal? :banana:

Can't wait to see if you agree or not.

Edited February 16, 2015 by 98Z5V

Matt.Cross · February 16, 2015

I locked the old thread, pretty innocuous mistake on the part of the newcomer, but it's good advice to check thread dates before replying to them.

98Z5V · February 16, 2015

Matt, I'm still not gonna give him the information I know for another 4~5 years. That's just the way I'm gonna work with this guy... <dontknow>

illusion · February 17, 2015

Hey, illusion, I'm gonna wait 4~5 years before I reply to your post here. Then I'm gonna make my reply. I have info that will benefit you, but it has to wait.

Or, we can make a deal. Here's the deal. You STOP replying to schit that 4~5 years old, STOP awakening old-ass threads, and I'll reply as soon as I see that happen.

Deal? :banana:

Can't wait to see if you agree or not.

DEAL! Guess I put my foot in my mouth, eh? Personally I prefer information based on fact instead of conjecture no matter how old it is. Just opened an old wound and didn't realize I was doing something improper. Sorry, I'll keep my comments to myself and stay out of 'old' threads. Won't happen again.. Thanks

Matt.Cross · February 17, 2015

It happens from time to time, Illusion. Don't sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff. There have been a few such incidents recently and our resident silverback ain't takin' it lightly. Carry on friend.

illusion · February 17, 2015

That's just the way I'm gonna work with this guy... <dontknow>

Isn't that a bit callous, what has 'this guy' ever done to intentionally offend you? <dontknow>

98Z5V · February 17, 2015

You're smart enough to figure it out. <thumbsup>

Edited February 17, 2015 by 98Z5V

Matt.Cross · February 17, 2015

Since I'm charged with keeping these forums a place that's welcoming to both the established community AND to newcomers, let me just remind everybody that public bickering will be deleted and that PMs are the best way to resolve differences of opinion.

The Admins and Mods have never had to consume time closing outdated threads, we can keep it that way by checking thread dates before posting. If you want to update an ancient thread, create a new one with a link to the old thread.

Lastly, established community members are expected to help this community grow, which means being nice to members not yet familiar with our forum culture. Play nice folks, bottom line.