FaRKle! Posted February 26, 2015 Report Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) I've got AR500 steel targets that I'm going to test this against. I've got SCADS is M193 to use on it. SCHIT TONS of it.Most AR500 steel targets are thicker than AR500 armor. That's going to matter. It also matters how they're mounted, as a free swinging plate or plate mounted against a very hard surface isn't going to behave (and be penetrated) the same as one that's supported by flesh/ballistic gelatin. Level III stops, up to this: Level IV stops, up to this: Farkle, what .223 round can make it through those plates that THOSE rounds can't make it through? What ammo do you have access to - in .223 - that can defeat those armor level ratings, when those stated rounds can't make it through them? Your schit made of Kryptonite or something? Unobtanium? Unicorn Schit? What? Calling bullschit on your comment.No no no! Re-read the NIJ specs for hard armor please. Armor ratings ARE NOT INCLUSIVE. Please google Dr. Gary Roberts' work on hard armor testing. You'll learn a lot. Here's a start. More comprehensive and updated work can be found at LF.Plate material matters when it comes to what .223 threats will defeat it. As I've said before, polyethylene plates will stop M193, but tend to be defeated by M855 while AR500 plates will stop M855, but tend to be penetrated by higher velocity rounds such as M193. That said, there are many level III plates that will stop those non-spec threats and manufacturers often advetise them as "level III+" or "level III special threat." Destruction lab on youtube has some fun AR500 tests. took him between 60 and 90 rounds of green tip to penetrate a standard plate. if I get hit 60+ times...than I have a feeling its going to take more than a 10" square of armor to save me.AR500 doesn't have a problem defeating M855. Edited February 26, 2015 by FaRKle!
98Z5V Posted February 27, 2015 Report Posted February 27, 2015 I've been reading Doc Roberts work for years and years, Fark.
FaRKle! Posted February 27, 2015 Report Posted February 27, 2015 I've been reading Doc Roberts work for years and years, Fark. Then we should be on the same page then <thumbsup>. Everything I've said here is from his work or from his own posts over the years.
survivalshop Posted February 27, 2015 Report Posted February 27, 2015 destruction lab on youtube has some fun AR500 tests. took him between 60 and 90 rounds of green tip to penetrate a standard plate. if I get hit 60+ times...than I have a feeling its going to take more than a 10" square of armor to save me. Sure ,but put an arm or chin around them & see how that works . I have no problem believing that an AR500 anything will stop what its designed for , its the mere fact that by not capturing the fragments of the projectile(s) is the true threat to the wearer or bystanders that bothers me . Unless there is some thing that mitigates those fragments or it could be a complete projectile , if angle is right to do it . The carrier is not going to stop much unless its of a material that can also suppress bullets or their fragments . As said put a vest on a complete Ballistic gelatin torso with head & arms at same relationship as a Human & see what happens . The tests I have seen with BG torso's with no arms or head or with its family or friends next to it when shots taken & I will admit I'm wrong about the whole thing .
EasyEJL Posted February 27, 2015 Author Report Posted February 27, 2015 related, I see a few companies make soft antispall/frag slip in pieces to go in front of plates. uses Kevlar and whatever in it. Sort of similar to the soft armor in front of the hard plate. But these slip ins aren't ballistically rated, just meant to capture the spray
blue109 Posted February 27, 2015 Report Posted February 27, 2015 most of the plates these days have pretty thick coatings. the plate in the video looked like the coating was thicker than the armor. seemed to stop the frag until it started deteriorating from all the hits. I'm not endorsing steel...ill stick to something lighter.
FaRKle! Posted February 27, 2015 Report Posted February 27, 2015 related, I see a few companies make soft antispall/frag slip in pieces to go in front of plates. uses Kevlar and whatever in it. Sort of similar to the soft armor in front of the hard plate. But these slip ins aren't ballistically rated, just meant to capture the spray And after adding the price of them to the AR500 armor plates you're at the same cost as a composite plate while being heavier and probably not as comfortable (single curve vs triple curve).
survivalshop Posted February 28, 2015 Report Posted February 28, 2015 And after adding the price of them to the AR500 armor plates you're at the same cost as a composite plate while being heavier and probably not as comfortable (single curve vs triple curve). Ya, Never thought of it that way .
EasyEJL Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I found a place selling used (not hit with fire) class 3 ceramic plates for $200 a set of front/back. Seem like a good deal?these are from the late 90s, look like police issue probably Edited March 3, 2015 by EasyEJL
blue109 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Posted March 3, 2015 good deal...but.that's a long time sitting on shelves or being bounced around.
EasyEJL Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Posted March 3, 2015 yeah, but more in my price range than new ceramic, its at least double that for new
blue109 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Posted March 3, 2015 I havnt done any research on damaged plates, but I'm going to assume it doesn't do much for reliability, and there's no easy way to know if your plates are cracked.
EasyEJL Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Posted March 3, 2015 The thing is, thinking about the SHTF scenario, do I want ceramic plates that may withstand a couple hits but at that point are so cracked up (and not replaceable) that they aren't usable or wouldn't stop future hits?I'm not planning on taking a lot of bullets :D but still part of the thought process
blue109 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Posted March 3, 2015 I'm with you. my position is I only need it to stop a few. if I'm in a hail of gunfire...than I've already lost the game and most likely just trying to cause a ruckus on my way out. I might take the risk with a used plate for that reason. I already have soft armor to back it up. if the plate is rated for multiple hits, than some micro cracks probably wont render it useless, just less effective. was just throwing out something to think about.
EasyEJL Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Posted March 3, 2015 Yeah, I do only want to buy once, and cry once :) I definitely don't intend to be in a hail of fire, but then with the ceramic just dropping it can break it. sigh, not an easy choice.
FaRKle! Posted March 3, 2015 Report Posted March 3, 2015 I found a place selling used (not hit with fire) class 3 ceramic plates for $200 a set of front/back. Seem like a good deal?these are from the late 90s, look like police issue probably Got a link? Also check other forums (light LF and M4C), there's usually good deals on second hand armor there. I havnt done any research on damaged plates, but I'm going to assume it doesn't do much for reliability, and there's no easy way to know if your plates are cracked. If you know a doctor or other person with access to an x-ray machine they might be able to help. Yeah, I do only want to buy once, and cry once :) I definitely don't intend to be in a hail of fire, but then with the ceramic just dropping it can break it. sigh, not an easy choice.Sure they can crack, but they're not THAT fragile. Don't forget that the plates had to stand up to the abuse of all our soldiers running around Iraq and Afghanistan.
StainTrain Posted March 4, 2015 Report Posted March 4, 2015 The thing is, thinking about the SHTF scenario, do I want ceramic plates that may withstand a couple hits but at that point are so cracked up (and not replaceable) that they aren't usable or wouldn't stop future hits? I'm not planning on taking a lot of bullets :D but still part of the thought process This sounds like a serious SHTF scenario. You are in Tampa....use some cover and concealment. <lmao>
planeflyer21 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Posted March 4, 2015 Yeah, I do only want to buy once, and cry once :) I definitely don't intend to be in a hail of fire, but then with the ceramic just dropping it can break it. sigh, not an easy choice. I don't know man...sounds like an easy choice to me.
EasyEJL Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Posted March 4, 2015 This sounds like a serious SHTF scenario. You are in Tampa....use some cover and concealment. <lmao>yeah, I am at the far northeast end too, so very close to a big wooded area too.I guess I need to figure out what my real purpose in getting the plates is (and under what circumstances i'd be wearing them) before I can be confident in my choice of plate.
survivalshop Posted March 13, 2015 Report Posted March 13, 2015 Easy , DSG has these on sale right now for $ 230 . both front & back Plates . https://dsgarms.com/ktibaia0035?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Titanium/Steel%2010x12%20Level%20III%20Front%20%26%20Rear%20Strike%20Plate&utm_campaign=DSG%27s%20Pot%20Of%20Gold
98Z5V Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Easy , DSG has these on sale right now for $ 230 . both front & back Plates . https://dsgarms.com/ktibaia0035?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Titanium/Steel%2010x12%20Level%20III%20Front%20%26%20Rear%20Strike%20Plate&utm_campaign=DSG%27s%20Pot%20Of%20Gold Only if you're logged in as MIL or LEO - they're $299 if you're not...
survivalshop Posted March 14, 2015 Report Posted March 14, 2015 Usually you have to sign in to show their sale price . I'm not LEO & logged in & the price went to $ 230.
EasyEJL Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Posted March 14, 2015 that's not bad at all. Guess I need to do my taxes finally and see how that all works out :)
MechArmor Defense Systems Posted July 1, 2015 Report Posted July 1, 2015 Hey all, Yea, we agree 100%, either a company is trying to make a million on every single body armor plate sale, or they are selling people on dangerous steel plates on the cheap. Well, Stay tuned and stand by if anyone wants the newest tech, high-end, super light composite body armor for the usual MechArmor, get the frack out of town pricing! Our new "OuterArmor" brand has been in the works for two years now and we will soon be ready for some special pricing pre-orders! We will have four packages of high velocity rifle threat mitigation armor, ranging from 5 pound women's/kids sizes, to 6.5 to 9 pound men's armor vest packages in NIJ Lev 3, with prices ranging from $250.00 to $500.00; and the same complete vest packages in slightly heavier 11 pound total weight Lev-4 A/P mitigation vest for $499.00! We will also have what we call our "EXO Dual-Armor" vests which will have the lightest weight Multi-Curve plates available, as well as the most advanced NIJ Lev-3A Soft Armor behind that and throughout the vest. THESE are the type and level of complete vests that you may have seen being sold by other well-known companies for upwards of $2000.00! Our EXO Dual-Armor vests will be selling for $799.00! And available in the normal men's sizes only. If there are any of you who would be interested in these vest packages please begin to email us to get on the Pre-Sale list ASAP. If you want to combine your forces and put together a larger "one time" group buy for these, then do let me know about that as well. Email Rick here - MechDef33@gmail.com We may also be considering taking on some wholesale dealers if anyone is so interested. Our test range results video for these will also be available soon. These website pages are new and still have minor changes to come, nor are these products available yet, but the core data is good to go. http://mechdefense.com/products/exo-defense3-body-armor http://mechdefense.com/products/exo-defense4-body-armor
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