bfoosh006 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Posted November 16, 2017 Creedmoor Sports 142gr SMK HPBT Federal "Non-Typical" 140gr SP.... ( I was hoping these would do better ....Flat base and all ) Hornady American Gunner 140gr BTHP ... NOTE 2 separate groups with two separate POA Browning 129gr BRX
bfoosh006 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Posted November 16, 2017 Hornady American Whitetail 129gr Interlock Hornady 120gr A-Max FGMM 130gr Hybrid OTM Hornady 140gr ELD Match
bfoosh006 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Posted November 16, 2017 Norma Match 130gr HPBT..... very similar groups, box markings, case and bullet as the PRIME ammo PRIME 130gr HPBT Match Hornady Superformance 129gr SST Creedmoor Sports 140gr Nosler BTHP
bfoosh006 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Posted November 16, 2017 Barrel pics... And the OEM gas block... Barrel markings..
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 Finally got to the range today for the Trued n' Glued testing.... If anyone isn't sure if it helps, I can say, either my shooting skills dramatically improved... or the Trued n' Glued worked. I will do the Tn'G on all my AR platforms.... the results are so obvious, that most groups could be readily / easily be seen to be better.... without measuring at the range. Improvements in the realm of 1MOA+ will be seen in the following downloaded photos. I will note the measured improvements as well as the few "didn't change a thing" ones. I am hoping to alter the original posts with a before ( OEM ) and after, True n' Glue photo. Give me some time... but, again.. if you aren't sure if you want to do it.... I will argue that you should !! Lol Also there will be some added ammo tested from the Tn'G barrel. Wow .... I am still impressed with the results just thinking about it.
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 From this point on ( until the OCD in me wants a higher quality barrel ) .. all accuracy results will be from the OEM PSA barrel, installed in the PSA with a Trued Reciever face and "glued" in place with Loctite 609. I am going to post the results from the Tn'G receiver and barrel... some got better some got worse. I would recommend doing this though, I feel like it shoots more variety of ammo better then before. It took all of about 15 minutes to do... and most all of that time was RnR'ing the barrel, gas block, and FF tube. I whole heartly recommend doing this to all your AR platforms. I will try to post the different groups in the same order as the original thread...just to keep it simple ( including and repeats ... arrgh ) Remember, some pretty dramatic results came from doing this ( unless my bench skills magically improved dramatically... Lol )
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 Nosler 140gr HPBT... Tn'G...Difference in size.. Before... .7890" 5rds.... After ... 1.1890" 5rds Federal AE 140gr.....Tn'G....Difference in size, ....Before... .9425" 5rds.... After ... .9810" 5rds Hornady 120gr ELD...Tn'G....Difference in size,....Before... 1.0130" 5rds.... After ... 1.9190" 5rds ... pulled another one.. SIG 140gr OTM ...Tn'G.... Difference in size .........Before... 1.1830" 5rds.... After ... .9580" 5rds
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Creedmoor Sports 142gr SMK HPBT Difference in group size Creedmoor 142gr SMK... Before.... 1.1080" 5rds... After... 1.2670" 6rds... ( because I flubbed one and wanted to see if it was me or the ammo ) Federal "Non-Typical" 140gr SP.... ( I was hoping these would do better ....Flat base and all ) Difference in group size, Federal "Non-Typical" 140gr SP.... 1.9315", Before.... 2.7030 After........ also a funky group...fire one it goes in the same hole as another, next goes way off... next same hole... then way off.. Hornady American Gunner 140gr BTHP ... NOTE 2 separate groups with two separate POA Difference in group size, Hornady American Gunner 140gr BTHP.... 1.1950" before.... .7520", after........ HUGE difference Browning 129gr BRX Difference in group size, Browning 129gr BRX.... 1.8335" before.... 2.6610", after.... my barrel just doesn't like this ammo. Edited December 10, 2017 by bfoosh006
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Hornady American Whitetail 129gr Interlock Difference in group size, Hornady American Whitetail 129gr Interlock... .... 3.0965" before.... 2.2410", after Hornady 120gr A-Max Difference in group size., Hornady 120gr A-Max... 1.8260" Before.... 1.4175", After.... FGMM 130gr Hybrid OTM...Huge difference.... Difference in group size, FGMM 130gr Hybrid OTM..... Before 2.3660" 5rds, .... After .9580"..... OH YEAH ! . Hornady 140gr ELD Match... Huge difference.... Difference in group size, .Hornady 140gr ELD Match.... Before 2.2045" 5rds, .... After .9290"..... OH YEAH ! Edited December 10, 2017 by bfoosh006
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 Norma Match 130gr HPBT..... very similar groups, box markings, case and bullet as the PRIME ammo Difference in group size, Norma Match 130gr HPBT.... Before 2.4425" 5rds, .... After 1.9660"..... PRIME 130gr HPBT Match....Huge difference.... Difference in group size, PRIME 130gr HPBT Match.... Before 1.9165" 5rds, .... After .9620"..... Hornady Superformance 129gr SST Difference in group size.....Hornady Superformance 129gr SST... Before 2.1265... After... 2.6635 Creedmoor Sports 140gr Nosler BTHP....Huge difference.... Difference in group size...Creedmoor Sports 140gr Nosler BTHP... Before 1.5135"... After... .8770"
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Federal Fusion 140gr ...Much better.... Difference in group size, Federal Fusion 140gr..... Before 2.1445"... After... 1.4355" Edited December 10, 2017 by bfoosh006
bfoosh006 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Some new, previously untested ammo groups.... Nosler Ballistic Tips 140gr... Overall 1.7625, 7 rds, The Nosler ballistic tip ammo was consistently producing two distinct groups....one shot low, one shot high.. ... or I was !! 4rd group... 1.1030, 3rd group... .8900" Winchester 125gr XP .... 1.3645" 5rds. Creedmoor Sports 140gr Hornady bullet.... .9570" Photos in the order listed Edited December 10, 2017 by bfoosh006
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Posted January 7, 2018 Soooo.... I bought another complete PA10 lower.... is has a longer carbine buffer tube, a regular AR15 length buffer, and a longer buffer spring then my first PA10 lower. I haven't measured them yet... but is sure looks like a Armalite .308 length buffer system. So... prior to any purchasing of buffer parts, I strongly suggest you post photos of what actually came with your rifle. The "new" longer length buffer tube is marked "PA10" with the PSA "Logo" as well ... the buffer is AR15 length ( no markings ) as hand compared to a spare AR15 carbine buffer I have laying around. Here are some side by side photos for comparison...the "New" sized buffer system is on the left. The older "DPMS" style buffer systems is on the right. I am now wondering how many times the different ones have been used... and how many times it may have caused mayhem and confusion.
Hotwrench Posted January 7, 2018 Report Posted January 7, 2018 Strange mine is marked as PA-1. Does anyone know how to read production date from the S/N? It seems to be gen 2 at least. It measured 7 7/8 inside before the three quarters were added.
98Z5V Posted January 7, 2018 Report Posted January 7, 2018 ^^^ Looks like the laser engraver screwed up, honestly. It probably should have been etched "PA-10" and not "PA-1."
survivalshop Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 19 hours ago, bfoosh006 said: Soooo.... I bought another complete PA10 lower.... is has a longer carbine buffer tube, a regular AR15 length buffer, and a longer buffer spring then my first PA10 lower. I haven't measured them yet... but is sure looks like a Armalite .308 length buffer system. So... prior to any purchasing of buffer parts, I strongly suggest you post photos of what actually came with your rifle. The "new" longer length buffer tube is marked "PA10" with the PSA "Logo" as well ... the buffer is AR15 length ( no markings ) as hand compared to a spare AR15 carbine buffer I have laying around. Here are some side by side photos for comparison...the "New" sized buffer system is on the left. The older "DPMS" style buffer systems is on the right. I am now wondering how many times the different ones have been used... and how many times it may have caused mayhem and confusion. Could you measure the Springs & count the coils , also weigh the Buffers & also measure them ( length ) , if I'm not asking too much .
bfoosh006 Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Glad to... Here are the measured weights and lengths between the "New" and "Older" versions. Again, remember these parts do not interchange... unless you the complete buffer system ( DPMS v. Armalite ) New / Armalite / Longer.......................... Older / DPMS / Shorter Supplied OEM PSA buffer ............ ( Both are way to light IMHO, they should be min. 5.4oz ) .....3.8oz / OAL 3.260"...................................3.8oz / OAL 2.5" Supplied OEM PSA Buffer Tube...... .....5.0oz / OAL 7 7/8" ..................................5.0oz / OAL 7 1/4" Supplied OEM PSA Buffer Spring..... ......1.5oz / OAL 11 3/8" / 29coils..................1.5oz / OAL 10 5/8" / 28coils Difference between the two, in the fully compressed spring / buffer / BCG bottomed out in the buffer tubes using the supplied parts.... the "New" Buffer system is 3/32 longer and will not compress as short as the old one.... so if you are having Bolt catch issues... this is possibly why. The depth of the "New" buffer tube is 7 11/16" Again the "New" buffer system length is a better choice IMHO , allowing for more common parts and a heavier buffer weight.... However.... changing mid-stream is bound to confuse the subject. Edited January 8, 2018 by bfoosh006
GoodByNAair Posted March 28, 2018 Report Posted March 28, 2018 Great reporting on the 6.5 Creed. Looks like PSA put a little more work into that barrel. If you have time you should make a DIY of your "Trued n' Glued" procedure.
98Z5V Posted March 29, 2018 Report Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, GoodByNAair said: Great reporting on the 6.5 Creed. Looks like PSA put a little more work into that barrel. If you have time you should make a DIY of your "Trued n' Glued" procedure. True the receiver face with a lapping tool, and install the barrel with loc-tite 609.
bfoosh006 Posted April 15, 2018 Author Report Posted April 15, 2018 BTW, ...I've got another PSA 6.5CM upper on the way to test.... so results should be better then my previous small sample size. And, rumor has it, that a cutting tool could be altered to do the receiver truing and upper BCG channel cutting at the same time.... allowing for a very straight axis between the two.
98Z5V Posted April 15, 2018 Report Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, bfoosh006 said: And, rumor has it, that a cutting tool could be altered to do the receiver truing and upper BCG channel cutting at the same time.... allowing for a very straight axis between the two. That is "true" - pun intended! I don't know why more manufacturers don't do this already. Well, more "manufacturers" are relying on outside sources to "finish" the raw forgings, is why. Very few "manufacturers" machine their uppers and lowers. PSA can get a leg up on this - and PSA can actually offer "trued" upper receivers for the DPMS-based lowers out there - if PSA is sticking to the DPMS-based platform. Hint, hint... stick to a dedicated, widely-used platform, pimp your machining of the upper receiver tolerances, and offer that upper receiver as a "match" receiver... hint, hint... I have two AR15 upper receivers that I bought, just because of this - same manufacturer. Billet machined upper receivers that have a receiver face with a "parallelism" of 0.0003" true to the bore axis. That's 3/ten thou... "Parallelism" was their word, not mine, but it's a real word... Both those AR15s are REAL shooters, too - holy shiit, do they shoot the lights out! The "Billet UltraMatch" upper receivers aren't a joke - they work. Not naming names, but... Edited April 15, 2018 by 98Z5V
Matt.Cross Posted April 15, 2018 Report Posted April 15, 2018 4 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Billet machined upper receivers that have a receiver face with a "parallelism" of 0.0003" true to the bore axis. That's 3/ten thou... "Parallelism" was their word, not mine, but it's a real word... That's probably the natural result of trying to dumb down the explanation so people can understand. Throw "perpendicularity" (or more correctly "orthagonal") into the explanation and the average person's eyes just glaze over.
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