Roadk9 Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Hi guys. I'm new and it was suggested to me that if I wanted to get opinions on a problem I need to first post the build list. So here it is Aero Precision M5 complete lower, M5E1 complete upper and 15" Handguard. Ballistic Advantage (Hanson) SS .308 18" barrel and nickel boron BCG Melonite gas tube (mid), Radian Charging handle SLR adjustable (titanium) gas block, AAC Brakeout, and shim kit Geissele SSA/E trigger. Magpul, Stock, grip, RSA, ASAP, PMAGs. Unrelated but what the heck: LaRue LT112 scope mount Burris XTR II 5-25X50 Silencerco Saker 7.62 Now for the problems: fail to feed occasional, stovepipe, also occasional, fail to eject(but trying to feed another round) fail to reset trigger occasional. Additional information. To break in the barrel I have been using M80 ammo I had leftover. Its dirty. I started with the GB at 7 clicks open that allowed the bolt to hold open on an empty mag. Now I'm up to 12 clicks open. I have disassembled it tonight and will give it a thorough cleaning. I have ordered a SSS Flatwire Buffer spring. and have a case of Federal GM308M to use for further shooting. One puzzling item I discovered when taking it apart are two areas of impact where I didn't expect. Photo is posted below. I think the BCG is impacting the Buffer tube in two places. That is why I ordered the flatware spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Wrong buffer. Period. Buffer tube (receiver extension) as well. Get rid of that entire recoil system. Please list details on the entire recoil system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Don't run the suppressor, either. Make a functioning rifle, first. Let's deal with making a functioning suppressed rifle later. Don't complicate shiit with complicated shiit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 complete lower from areo? ^^ meaning buffer tube and such included? 98 has this for breakfast! more detail needed.. welcome aboard man! your in good hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 More info on buffer tube/spring/buffer and where aquired please. Also, breaking the gun in with cheap ammo is bad juju. Think of the break-in as the first 3-5% of your barrel life, and ask yourself why it makes sense to condition your barrel to crap ammo only to switch to good ammo post break-in. Your components are well-picked and reputable, it seems incongruous to run E87 + 10% ethanol pump gas (cheap ammo) in your brand-new Dyno tuned turbocharged supercar. Run the GMM throughout the break-in, you're doing yourself a favor if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Aero Precision's 308 carbine receiver extension is too long, in internal depth. It doesn't even match AR15 parts, which it SHOULD, with the buffer and spring they're using. I found this out more than 2 years ago, maybe three years ago, and I still can't believe they haven't done anything about it, to this day. I LOVE me some Aero Precision parts, but holy shiit, guys?!!? CHANGE YOUR 308 RECEIVER EXTENSION!!! More than half the ARs I have are made from Aero receivers. And it's alot. MY Aero Precision M5 carbine receiver extension had an internal depth of 7.100". That's about 0.100" too much. I threw it in the trash, literally, because it won't work for a 308, and it won't work for an AR15. Dumpster. I notified them, and I moved on - to a genuine Armalite AR-10 Carbine recoil system, complete. Looks like they didn't do anything with the information that I used, during said notification. The internal depth of your receiver extension is too long, allowing your buffer to travel too far rearward during recoil, and your BCG impacted the ears on your lower receiver - because your BCG is allowed to go too far, because your receiver extension is too long, internally. That's bascially what I sent them, except in first person, when it happened to me. I hope they read this. Again. And do something. Shiitcan your Aero recoil system, and move to the Armalite AR-10 Carbine recoil system, complete. You'll never have that issue again, it'll probably cure all your other running problems as well, and you'l be happier, taller, less gray, more attractive to the opposite sex, and your manhood will probably extend another 1.5 inches... Well, maybe not ALL that. Your gun will run, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Im with 98 on this. Ditch the buffer tube, buffer and buffer spring. Reinvest in an entire Armalite AR-10 setup. The damage is a telltale sign of too short of a recoil system. Your buffer should be bottoming out before your carrier smashes into the receiver like that. If you want to spend the $$$... check out the JP silent captured spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Wow, that was quick! As has been realized here the complete Aero lower came with buffer tube, buffer and spring assembled. I will check the depth of the tube today and research the Armalite setup. What is the optimum tube depth? And what if I used a longer buffer instead of changing the tube? A quick check shows the tube depth is slightly less than 7". The buffer is an SAA unit and 2.5" long. I will sideline the M80 ammo and get more of the Federal instead. The Saker will stay in the safe until this is resolved. Thanks for all the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 If the tube internal depth was less than 7.000", with a 2.5" long buffer, the shoulder of the BCG wouldn't be able to hit the ears on the lower... Something is off, measurement-wise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Oh, and RUN IT WET, like 'Holy cow Batman, you can't be serious!' level lube on the BCG, and once you get the break-in done you won't need nearly so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 98, I agree it shouldn't have the room to hit. So I measured the buffer and bolt carrier. then I dropped the buffer in the tube, no spring, and lowered the carrier in. Pics below. The only way the carrier could hit the receiver or tube is if the buffer pad deforms under recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 98, also if the buffer pad is being compressed then I made it worse by opening the gas block more instead of closing it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Roadk9 said: 98, also if the buffer pad is being compressed then I made it worse by opening the gas block more instead of closing it down? Yep. That pad shouldn't compress that much. I'm just sayin'... The cure for your ailment, no matter what, is putting in the gen-u-wine Armalite AR-10 Carbine recoil system, complete. You won't have to hunt around, poke this, prod that, try to figure out... ...anything. It just works. As soon as I saw the internal depth on my stuff, I dumpstered it. Didn't play with it, try to figure it out. None of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 There’s also the $0.75 fix.... it’s not the appropriate fix, but it should work. Just drop 3 or 4 quarters to the bottom of you buffer tube. That’ll give you about 1/4” of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, Robocop1051 said: There’s also the $0.75 fix.... it’s not the appropriate fix, but it should work. Just drop 3 or 4 quarters to the bottom of you buffer tube. That’ll give you about 1/4” of space. i did this for a temporary fix until my armalite kit showed up and then got my bus money out of the tube and shitcanned the tube.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 22 hours ago, Robocop1051 said: There’s also the $0.75 fix.... it’s not the appropriate fix, but it should work. Just drop 3 or 4 quarters to the bottom of you buffer tube. That’ll give you about 1/4” of space. That sounds like like you used to work on Harley Davidsons in the past. But it is a good idea until I get a better buffer system in place. Meanwhile after giving the unit a good cleaning I compared the buffer in my Colt AR to the one in the Aero unit. The Colt is 3/4" longer and .28oz heavier????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Guys, I have looked at the Armalite kit and the buffer looks longer than the one that came in my Aero unit. What is the length and weight of the buffer in the Armalite kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Look up DSG.com ,they have the assembly there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Roadk9 said: That sounds like like you used to work on Harley Davidsons in the past. But it is a good idea until I get a better buffer system in place. Meanwhile after giving the unit a good cleaning I compared the buffer in my Colt AR to the one in the Aero unit. The Colt is 3/4" longer and .28oz heavier????? 24 minutes ago, Roadk9 said: Guys, I have looked at the Armalite kit and the buffer looks longer than the one that came in my Aero unit. What is the length and weight of the buffer in the Armalite kit? You're right. The DPMS-based 308 carbine recoil system uses a 2.500" buffer, that's WAY too light. The Armalite AR-10 carbine recoil system uses (no kidding) AR15 carbine buffers that are 3.250" long, and are H3-weighted. They accomplish this with a carbine receiver extension that has an internal depth of 7 5/8" (instead of using the AR15 carbine receiver extension, with it's 7.000" internal depth). Edited March 16, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Aha! I thought, when looking at a pic of the Armalite system, that they were showing a AR15 system with the longer buffer. But it's intentional and the tube is longer too. Now it makes sense that it would be a better unit. An H3 buffer should be 5oz and help to tame the stronger recoil of the .308. Then doing the math my 2.5" buffer and 7" tube gives about 3/16" clearance between the Carrier and the tube. The Armalite system then should give me 5/16" clearance in addition to the recoil reduction. I'm convinced and will order the Armalite system tonight. When it's in and tested I will post the results here. Thanks again. Edited March 16, 2018 by Roadk9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 We wouldn’t bullshit you on this one. This is a common enough issue that we can diagnose it pretty fast. Not too much stumps us anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Armalite also has a specific buffer spring for their AR-10 recoil system - the EA1095 spring. You'll need that, too. I found out not long ago that Armalite sells the complete system as one part number, and it's significantly cheaper than piecing it together, by the three parts. The receiver extension alone is $40. The AR15 H3 buffer is about $40. Then the other parts that you get in this kit... This thing is a screamin' deal. Had I only know earlier... Sign up, and wait for it to come into stock - it won't take long. I'm impatient as hell, and I'd piece it together at the greater expense... https://www.armalite.com/product/ar10rekit01-6-position-receiver-extension-kit/ Armalite part number (for the kit): AR10REKIT01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Here it is, at EuroOptic, for $65. Call them on the phone and ask if it's in stock. I can very, very highly recommend EuroOptic. https://www.eurooptic.com/Armalite-AR-10-6-POS-Receiver-EXT-Kit.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 I will get on it now. Armalite is out with no prediction of when. I guess it's worth the extra $13 to get it from EuroOptic. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadk9 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Hi All, I'm back with the update. The genuine Armalite AR10 buffer kit arrived and was installed. I did no substituting. Went to the range yesterday and shot 20 rounds. I started with the gas block set at 5 clicks open. I had taken the time to do a thorough cleaning prior to installing the Armalite kit. The results: It would eject the spent case but the bolt didn't move far enough to strip a new round off the magazine. The bolt would contact the new round's case and push the cartridge nose into the barrel and that is where it would stop. I am using the Federal Match only so I decided the try a different magazine. No change, then I started opening the gas block. By the time I got to 14 clicks open it would actually feed correctly maybe once or twice. Then I got the idea of trying to see how far the bolt is moving back in recoil. I put one round in a mag and shot it. The photo shows the result. The bolt only got far enough to clear the mag follower not the bolt catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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