Another life ruined after compromise.

[jtallen83]

7 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

no matter what the tin-foil reason for rejecting it is...

 

Where the hell is green mist when you need him, he could explain the plot behind this 

[98Z5V]

I hope he's gone. For good...

[blue109]

10 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Read it the way it was written, look at the information- and that's the exact way it as written.

It's now up to US - COLLECTIVELY - to either champion that idea, or just sit here jacking off and say, "That's WAY too hard, man...  no way...  so why try?..."

Looks like you don't like it, and you're in the "why try" camp on this.

That idea is the best fucking thing that's come along in decades - yes, like twenty-plus years- and everybody is sitting around yanking dick, and saying, "Cant happen, so why try..."

It's pathetic...

And when you loose your permit that covers every semi auto firearm you own because you have an unpaid parking ticket...or some crazy ex wife says you threatened her....you can look back and say "seemed like the best idea at the time"

Edited May 27, 2018 by blue109

[98Z5V]

3 hours ago, blue109 said:

And when you loose your permit that covers every semi auto firearm you own because you have an unpaid parking ticket...or some crazy ex wife says you threatened her....you can look back and say "seemed like the best idea at the time"

Swear we've been through this before...

The LAST guy that lost his Tax-Stamped Suppressor because he had an unpaid parking ticket was...

 

Never. 

 

It's never happened. 

 

 

[jtallen83]

5 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Swear we've been through this before...

The LAST guy that lost his Tax-Stamped Suppressor because he had an unpaid parking ticket was...

 

I really wish I could have your faith and trust in government to do what is right, life would be so much less stressful.

[98Z5V]

17 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

I really wish I could have your faith and trust in government to do what is right, life would be so much less stressful.

Just name the last case that a Tax Stamped suppressor was taken from a law abiding citizen...  for an unpaid parking ticket...

I'm cool with it, whenever it happened.  It just never, ever happened.

Ever. 

[jtallen83]

2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Just name the last case that a Tax Stamped suppressor was taken from a law abiding citizen...  for an unpaid parking ticket...

I'm cool with it, whenever it happened.  It just never, ever happened.

Ever. 

A law abiding American should never have to have a tax stamp in the first place but that’s on our ancestors but my mission to get it changed!

[GRA]

As we've discussed on here before ... these communists are simply chipping away at our stone.  They're eroding us little by little.  They've started the brainwashing to that end in the 80(s) long before Columbine and they get way with continuing it unchecked.  Once they raise our kids to hate guns the 2nd. Amendment is gone.  Eric-the-Hater Holder even said this himself years ago.  They know this alone is working for them and they've no plan to stop it until they are FORCED.

The funky laws being passed and enforced by the various commie states these days are succeeding because these laws are intentionally written in total confusion and ambiguity however liberals have learned that once the legislation passes as-is their hardest part of the battle is almost over.  The bottom line In passing such nonsense is because it allows liberal crooked judges to legislate from the bench easier and set new precedents I case law(s).  Such is life in the stare decisis legal system.

As I've said on here before ... it aint going to end until we FIGHT THEM IN THE STREETS.  Sometimes I feel that the sooner that specific party gets started the better off we all are.

 

[98Z5V]

3 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

A law abiding American should never have to have a tax stamp in the first place but that’s on our ancestors but my mission to get it changed!

Nice deflection, but...

You and I are not 84 years old.  Every suppressor in our adult life IS Tax Stamped. 

So, withstanding your valiant attempt at deflecting the damned question...  when was the last time someone with ANY Tax Stamped item had it just fucking plainass confiscated?...

"Never," is the answer to that question, brother, and you know it. 

[98Z5V]

I'm down.  Get to my house. I'll send you the address.  I can defend the whole block, neighborhood, maybe the whole southeastern section of town.  If we can make the lines-of-communication and lines-of-defense to my gun pushers house, we control the entire southern portion of the town, completely, between he and I.

Just get here...  

[jtallen83]

6 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

I'm down.  Get to my house. I'll send you the address.  I can defend the whole block, neighborhood, maybe the whole southeastern section of town.  If we can make the lines-of-communication and lines-of-defense to my gun pushers house, we control the entire southern portion of the town, completely, between he and I.

Just get here...  

Sadly I see that plan having a better chance at preserving Liberty than the license plan. 

Not even gonna research the prior confiscation issue, I am more concerned with heading of any possible future issues, I do not have your faith in government.

[98Z5V]

4 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

I do not have your faith in government.

I have my faith in ME, brother.  I know how to train a "perimeter defense," too, and I've got the hardware to do it.  When the time comes, and the shiit really hits the fan, I know I'll have the people to do it.  In droves. 

Rule #1 - you NEED to know the FPL. I will handle TRP1.

Edited May 28, 2018 by 98Z5V

[GRA]

These laws being written the way they are allows for loose interpretation by liberal corrupt judges, thus allowing new precedents to be set in out stare decisis system of law(s).  It's a down-side for sure.

Like my wife said once in so many words;

"The communists will not come for your guns head-on.  They will first go after your ammo and spare parts.  They will get those restrictions passed or figure out a way to control the ammo situation.  Afterwards they will dance around the other issues little by little.  One day you will realize they've changed it all".

 

Unfortunately I fear she is right.

[98Z5V]

They're already trying that - first, they have to limit the ammo, and they keep trying, through magazine limitations. They tried the "armor piercing" thing and tried to take M855, and THAT backfired in their face kinda quicklike.   Outside of the 10-rd limit states (all the blue ones), I think CO is the only other one that got hit, with 15rds, on mag restrictions.  CO got that only from all the granola-head motherfuckers that leaked into there from Cali.  "Ooooh, Boulder, and Durango..."    I think they even took the mags before they got the legal pot! 

What your wife speaks is the truth - they want the operational parts, first. Just like the British, in late 1774, seizing powder stores.  It wasn't about "taxation." That was an annoyance, but not the problem.  The British tried to seize their last powder stores here on 19 April, 1775, and the shiit truly hit the fan on THAT day.  No more.  No more powder shall ye take, not today, and not ever...

[308kiwi]

6 hours ago, blue109 said:

And if you think this stay this way...with zero accountability...zero paperwork...zero tracking... than you have worse problems with blinders. Do you honestly think it would stay that way? You really think they will let you walk in and grab this stuff off the shelf? Just because you have the permit? Cmon man....

I've been living with this, almost, exact system since 1990, 28 years, pretty much a whole generation, of literal freedom to "walk in and grab stuff of the shelf", yes, just because I have the permit, (license) to do so.

And yes, the tin foil milliners went right off when it was introduced, "next step is full registration then confiscation", "they're going to take all your guns" blah blah blah, well that just didn't happen, if anything it worked in our favour, opened up a whole new world to us, as it would to you guys as it would, as far as I can deduce, pretty much nullify your NFA Act.

And yes I may not be a US citizen nor live in the USA and have no vested interest in this discussion, I simply offer from experience how it does/can work.

 

[Matt.Cross]

11 minutes ago, 308kiwi said:

I've been living with this, almost, exact system since 1990, 28 years, pretty much a whole generation, of literal freedom to "walk in and grab stuff of the shelf", yes, just because I have the permit, (license) to do so.

And yes, the tin foil milliners went right off when it was introduced, "next step is full registration then confiscation", "they're going to take all your guns" blah blah blah, well that just didn't happen, if anything it worked in our favour, opened up a whole new world to us, as it would to you guys as it would, as far as I can deduce, pretty much nullify your NFA Act.

And yes I may not be a US citizen nor live in the USA and have no vested interest in this discussion, I simply offer from experience how it does/can work.

 

That's great input brother, much appreciated.

[blue109]

The guy in this article had 2 fed approved suppressors confiscated. 

[jtallen83]

7 hours ago, 308kiwi said:

I've been living with this, almost, exact system since 1990, 28 years, pretty much a whole generation, of literal freedom to "walk in and grab stuff of the shelf", yes, just because I have the permit, (license) to do so.

And yes, the tin foil milliners went right off when it was introduced, "next step is full registration then confiscation", "they're going to take all your guns" blah blah blah, well that just didn't happen, if anything it worked in our favour, opened up a whole new world to us, as it would to you guys as it would, as far as I can deduce, pretty much nullify your NFA Act.

And yes I may not be a US citizen nor live in the USA and have no vested interest in this discussion, I simply offer from experience how it does/can work.

 

       Here are some other parts of this "almost exact" system that would "pretty much nullify our NFA", along with many of my firearms rights as they stand now, correct me if I am wrong. Gun licenses are issued at the discretion of the police. There must be a good reason and self defense is not included in those reasons. You must also meet their arbitrary storage requirements. 

And then there is a convoluted category system;

 

A standard firearms licence allows the use of "A Category" firearms. To possess firearms of another category a person is required to get an endorsement to their licence. There are different endorsements for different classes of firearm but they all require a higher level of storage security, stricter vetting requirements and the applicant must have an end use for wanting the endorsement. Be it pest control for E cat, cowboy shooting and 3-gun for B cat, or just wanting to collect (provided one has adequate storage security) for C cat.

Each endorsement type has additional requirements

B Endorsement – Target (competition) pistols

Applicant must be a current financial member of a pistol club, a financial member of Pistol New Zealand (or in some cases membership of an approved club) and have attended at least 12 club shoots in the last 6 months before they can apply
Applicant must be sponsored by their club
The endorsement holder must attend at least 12 club activities (either at their home club or to another recognised club) in a financial year
Normally limited to no more than 12 pistols registered to their licence
Pistols must be of an approved sporting type i.e. barrel length of more than 10 cm (3.9 in)
Pistols can only be carried to and from the range in a locked container with ammunition in a separate container or to a gunsmith
Pistols may only be shot on a Police approved pistol club range.
C Endorsement – Restricted weapons

Pistols can also be held on the C endorsement instead of the B. Common special reasons include:

Collecting (must provide evidence in the form of books, club membership, collection of A type firearms), Museum curator, Family heirlooms and Theatrical.
C category firearms must be stored in an inoperable condition
Can never be used with live ammunition, but blanks are allowed for movie making and re-enacting
Can only be taken to an approved display venue, re-enactment event or to another collector for sale.
D Licence – Dealers licence

For those that make an income from firearms. To sell restricted weapons the dealer also needs to have the appropriate endorsements.

Renewed annually
Further security requirements
Must maintain a record (usually a book or register) of firearm purchases and sales.
E Endorsement – Military-style semi-automatics

New class of restricted weapon that was created after the Aramoana shooting spree. At the time anyone with an MSSA that wanted to keep it in that configuration was given a E endorsement (after going through the vetting and extra security requirements). But presently few are issued. Common reasons for wanting an E endorsement are professional pest destruction, collecting, 3-gun and service rifle shooting. Those people that did not want the extra hassle and expense of the endorsement converted their rifles into 'A' configuration by removing the components that made it an 'E'.

F Endorsement – Dealers staff licence

This class allows a person working for a dealer to demonstrate a pistol, military-style semi-automatic or a collectable weapon without having to have that class of licence. They can demonstrate one but not possess one for personal use. This is not a well known endorsement

 

Licences are issued at the discretion of the police. The possession of firearms is considered a privilege, rather than a right.[4][5]

To be granted a licence, the applicant must:

Be 16 or older;
Be a "fit and proper person" to possess and use firearms;
Attend a safety lecture given by a volunteer from the New Zealand Mountain Safety Council;
Pass a written test based on the material in the Arms Code,[6] a booklet compiled jointly by the New Zealand Mountain Safety Council and the Police;
Have a police officer inspect the security at the applicant's home (a gun rack, safe, strongroom or "receptacle of stout construction" is required);
Undergo an interview with a police officer;
Provide two referees, one a relative and one not, to vouch for the applicant;
Pay NZ$126.50 at a local PostShop.[7]
Licences are issued for a period of 10 years.

Under certain circumstances, a licence may carry endorsements to allow the possession and use of other types of weapons, as follows:

Endorsement    Use
B    Allows the holder to possess and use pistols. Granted only to bona fide members of pistol clubs. Weapons held under a "B" endorsement may only be fired at an approved pistol range, and are subject to strict controls on carriage away from the owner's home.
C    Allows the holder to possess and use pistols and restricted weapons. Granted only to bona fide collectors, to people for whom a particular weapon has a special significance (e.g. as an heirloom), to museum curators, and to theatre, film and TV production armourers. Weapons held under a "C" endorsement may not be fired with live ammunition, though blanks may be fired for film, TV and theatre purposes.
E    Allows the holder to possess and use MSSAs. Granted only to applicants showing a genuine reason for needing to use an MSSA - such as professional hunting, or participation in service-rifle or IPSC 3-gun competitions.
D, F    Special endorsements for firearms dealers.
Endorsements are granted only after further police vetting, and a higher standard of firearm storage security is required. Each application for an endorsement costs NZ$200.[7]

Weapons other than sporting-configuration rifles and shotguns must be individually registered, and transfer of possession is subject to prior approval by the police.

       It appears to me that firearms in New Zealand are largely a rich man's hobby at the level most of us here participate. For me the kicker is self defense not being a valid reason, I see the right to self defense as a God given right, not something an overbearing government can take from me.

I understand how this system could look inviting if you did not have the 2nd in the first place, it would be a huge step backwards for us and I believe a sin as God expects me to defend myself and my family. I do not see myself as paranoid, I simply judge things by what I have experienced. I have experienced first hand government oppression, government lies, and a government that changes laws to suit its agenda and not its people. Call me a tinfoil hatter, I could care less, I honestly hope to never have to say told you so.

And yes Tom, I realize this is not what the article you reference proposes but it is a look at where it could go.

 

 

[GRA]

42 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

"Weapons other than sporting-configuration rifles and shotguns must be individually registered, and transfer of possession is subject to prior approval by the police."

The police are EXACTLY the source we don't want approving "permits" or anything else for that matter.  This will only cause a police state to rule alongside if not in addition to corrupt and totalitarian politicians.

Quote

    

I understand how this system could look inviting if you did not have the 2nd in the first place, it would be a huge step backwards for us and I believe a sin as God expects me to defend myself and my family. I do not see myself as paranoid, I simply judge things by what I have experienced. I have experienced first hand government oppression, government lies, and a government that changes laws to suit its agenda and not its people. Call me a tinfoil hatter, I could care less, I honestly hope to never have to say told you so.

This is not being a tinfoil hatter ... this could very easily happen here.

Oh hell no we don't want this Euro-Brit-Aussie nonsense at all.  It reminds me of the firearms laws in the Netherlands.  I lived there for 4 years and I know what it's like to live in a place with screwed-up firearms laws with rules and requirements like this.  HELL NO !!!

If we allow the lunatic communist liberals to have their way this is the light side of what we'll wind up with, if we're lucky.  It would be far easier to force their expendability to the surface and reduce their numbers (i.e. fight them in the streets) so this political football they've enjoyed passing around in the past is finally deflated and put to rest. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by GRA

[98Z5V]

8 hours ago, blue109 said:

The guy in this article had 2 fed approved suppressors confiscated. 

He shouldn't have had them in California, then.  They were federally legal, for when he got them - had to have been in another state.  He wouldn't have gotten approved, as a Cali resident,the BATFE knows better.  So, the real question is, concerning the suppressors - why did he move them into Cali? Did he not know that they're not legal there?