Ceratac AR308 kit build round 2

[CRracer912]

Posting photos of 5 rounds of Federal 180gr SP, all the brass is oriented with the extractor catching the lip facing up.

I first fired 5(4 actually) rounds of Tulammo 150 gr. just to test function. 4 out of 5 functioned fine, the 5th failed to fire and it appears it's because the primer is much further down in the pocket than the others.  I compared the fail to fire round's primer to the remaining 15 rounds in that box and there was one more round with a primer set deep in the pocket, not flush with the base of the case.

The fired 5 round of Federal (premium?, blue box) 180 gr. SP. They all fired fine.  Ejection was about 2 o'clock for all rounds, 4 to 6' away.  The brass as can be seen in the photo have a flat spot on the mouth (not all do, but most do), what's it hitting on?

After only 10 rounds I tore it down and saw zero signs of wear anywhere on the face of the buffer, anywhere on the BCG, the lower/upper or the magazine. It functions as it should, but perhaps it'd benefit from the heavier buffer?  I won't post my target, I had my oldest son set one up for me so he put out a 12"x12" at 100 yards, and I'm using those open sights.  With corrective lenses I have 20/30 vision at best and seldom shoot open sight beyond 25 yards.  I was just happy that all rounds hit the target...

[Ravenworks]

16 hours ago, CRracer912 said:

If it's functions the way it should and shoots relatively well, I'll end up changing the trigger to either a RRA varmit trigger or a Larue MBT.

I'll try it out as is initially, but I've got a KAK buffer and an Odin adjustable gas block that may end up in/on it if necessary.

Palameto has the Gessile SSA-E for $154 shipped

[98Z5V]

And LaRue has the MBT2S for $87 for a few more days, by Christmas.  I've converted to the LaRue triggers, with the exception of the occasional Geissele Hi-Speed National Match trigger here and there.  Gotta be a special build for those ones, though.  LaRue for everything else - and they're all special. 

[CRracer912]

Yep, the MBT's are nice, picked up two at the Christmas price. Hope that becomes the new 'i can wait' price(or just the regular price!)

[CRracer912]

I coulda swore I saw information pertaining to buffer tube depth, length of spring and coil count, buffer weight, all in one place. I've poured over the stickies but I gotta ask a few questions.

My gas port is .081, mid length 18" barrel. Commercial tube that measures 7 1/4" inside(opposite buffer retaining lip), 10.5" spring(.072 diameter wire). Buffer weighed 3.83 ounces.

I haven't shot the rifle since initially test firing and it functioned great, but would dent the case mouth pretty good. From reading all the proper specs, of which mine has little in common with, I wanted to see about softening the recoil.

I've got an Odin works adjustable gas block, a KAK 5.12 ounce buffer and an assortment of springs ranging from 10.25" to 11.75", all are .072 wire. I've also got an available milspec tube with 7" internal depth if need be.

What would be best to start with? It's still got the non adjustable gas block installed (debated whether or not an adjustable is worth the time given the .081 gas hole).

I went with a 10.75" spring and KAK buffer, and my BCG timing looks the same ~1/8" between bolt lugs and bolt catch max.

I'd like to get it out to sight in a scope this weekend. Kinda wanted to play with softening the recoil at that time.

 

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, CRracer912 said:

I coulda swore I saw information pertaining to buffer tube depth, length of spring and coil count, buffer weight, all in one place. I've poured over the stickies but I gotta ask a few questions.

My gas port is .081, mid length 18" barrel. Commercial tube that measures 7 1/4" inside(opposite buffer retaining lip), 10.5" spring(.072 diameter wire). Buffer weighed 3.83 ounces.

I haven't shot the rifle since initially test firing and it functioned great, but would dent the case mouth pretty good. From reading all the proper specs, of which mine has little in common with, I wanted to see about softening the recoil.

I've got an Odin works adjustable gas block, a KAK 5.12 ounce buffer and an assortment of springs ranging from 10.25" to 11.75", all are .072 wire. I've also got an available milspec tube with 7" internal depth if need be.

What would be best to start with? It's still got the non adjustable gas block installed (debated whether or not an adjustable is worth the time given the .081 gas hole).

I went with a 10.75" spring and KAK buffer, and my BCG timing looks the same ~1/8" between bolt lugs and bolt catch max.

I'd like to get it out to sight in a scope this weekend. Kinda wanted to play with softening the recoil at that time.

 

You need to take up that 1/4" inside that extension, to keep the BCG from slamming the ears on the lower.  4 quarters will do it. Gas port diameter should be close. 

Slash's Big Buffer Table has the rest of the info you're talking about - click it to make it bigger:

[CRracer912]

So by that chart, it's showing a 308 carbine spring.

I've got an lr-308 carbine buffer spring, does the 'lr' indicate anything different from '308 carbine buffer spring'?

It also appears that many springs compressed are longer than the 2.5" buffer, so the rubber bumper isn't bottoming out.  It seems the number of coils is key in that, but the chart doesn't give a coil count on the 308 carbine spring(unless I'm blind, which I'm am to an extent)

 

 

[willbird]

I have a coil count on the orange spring in my noob PSA build thread. It was actually very close to the count for the spring PSA included in my complete lower.

[CRracer912]

26 minutes ago, willbird said:

I have a coil count on the orange spring in my noob PSA build thread. It was actually very close to the count for the spring PSA included in my complete lower.

Just checked that out. Looks identical in length, PSA having 30 coils, orange having 28.

Gives me something to compare. You show 11.5" on PSA, I'm thinking my spring labeled lr308 is the longest and it's either 11.5 or 11.75", to many numbers floating around to be exact

 Will check tonight.

[willbird]

Counting them was a challenge for me too, on the orange perhaps I counted the final wrap and not on the PSA ? A spring rate checker would be the best way ?

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, CRracer912 said:

So by that chart, it's showing a 308 carbine spring.

I've got an lr-308 carbine buffer spring, does the 'lr' indicate anything different from '308 carbine buffer spring'?

It also appears that many springs compressed are longer than the 2.5" buffer, so the rubber bumper isn't bottoming out.  It seems the number of coils is key in that, but the chart doesn't give a coil count on the 308 carbine spring(unless I'm blind, which I'm am to an extent)

 

 

Slash only uses AR-10 recoil springs in the DPMS and Armalite guns.  He uses Wolf XP springs in the AR15 heavies, and Armalite springs in the regular AR15s.  That's it.  RRA is different, like the whole platform.  Any reference you see on the Armalite and DPMS based springs in that chart, for a .308AR, is the Armalite EA1095 spring. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by 98Z5V

[CRracer912]

Thanks for that clarification! 

My lr308 spring is 11.5", 28 coils end to end.

Took the lower off and put in the vise. With commercial tube installed, lr308 spring and KAK buffer, I inserted the BCG all the way. I could see where the BCG has the ability to hit the lower(if the extension area was designed like PSA). Had ~+3/8" between bolt face and bolt catch.

Swapped out commercial tube for milspec and repeat above. The 'shoes'(for lack of understanding or better word) of the BCG do not extend in to lower extension, and it had ~+1/8" between bolt face and bolt catch.

Reassembled leaving milspec tube since it's standard 7" depth as opposed to the 7 1/4" depth of the commercial tube.

Edited January 4, 2019 by CRracer912

[98Z5V]

You did the right thing, man. 

@survivalshop - just wanted you to see this accounting of the situation, brother.

[CRracer912]

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-4-14x44mm-riflescope-mil-dot-pa4-14xffp

I've seen this scope mentioned here as well as the ARC2. I've been eyeballing this scope for quite some time. Read several reviews, watched videos.

My concern is (I'm not sure how to describe this) how is the sight picture. On cheaper scopes it can be a real PIA to get a nice big clear sight picture when looking through, without getting those 'shadowy cresents' on either side.

My Leopold vx3 is probably my best scope, super easy to see through and clear as a bell. Doesn't have and of the issue unless you're hanging off the side of the rifle. Very easy to pull up and get a clear view.

My son bought a PA 1-8, lower end SFP, it's a tad finicky, and even more so at max magnification.

Anyone got any input on this, I'm assuming there's a few actual users here.

[Matt.Cross]

I've got the ARC-2, have never had or noticed the issue you described. It has a pretty generous eye relief, doesn't require me to move my head a lot to get a great sight picture.

[willbird]

12 hours ago, CRracer912 said:

Thanks for that clarification! 

My lr308 spring is 11.5", 28 coils end to end.

Took the lower off and put in the vise. With commercial tube installed, lr308 spring and KAK buffer, I inserted the BCG all the way. I could see where the BCG has the ability to hit the lower(if the extension area was designed like PSA). Had ~+3/8" between bolt face and bolt catch.

Swapped out commercial tube for milspec and repeat above. The 'shoes'(for lack of understanding or better word) of the BCG do not extend in to lower extension, and it had ~+1/8" between bolt face and bolt catch.

Reassembled leaving milspec tube since it's standard 7" depth as opposed to the 7 1/4" depth of the commercial tube.

I think there might be more going on than just the "dry fit" for lack of a better term. My PSA setup on the bench the BCG cannot hit the lower, but in live fire it plainly does. The only way that can be happening IMHO is if the rubber tip on the buffer is compressing. I dropped one quarter down in the tube and the bolt will still lock back but I have not yet taken a sharpie to the divots in the lower and fired more rounds to see if the quarter did the trick :-).

[CRracer912]

My son's PSA PA 65 took two quarters to correct.

[willbird]

If one is good maybe two are better :-). I’m using the original PSA buffet tip in a different body. Buffer tips may differ in durometer ?

[CRracer912]

His is all original so far. I just read up on the BCG timing on here after I noticed his lower dinged up.

Two quarters properly timed his, but hasn't been shot since to see if the recoil violence still allows contact.

[98Z5V]

CR, I've got a handful of the PA 4~14 FFP models, and none of them exhibit what you're concerned about.  I've got 2 of the ACSS HUD DMR 308 scopes, one on a Rem 700 AAC-SD bolt gun, and it's been on there the longest, through thousands of rounds.  The other one is on a Mk12 Mod 1 gun, in 5.56.

***Note - you use the ACSS HUD DMR 308 scope on a 5.56gun that only shoot heavies - 75 or 77gr loads.  Their trajectory is very close to .308 Win heavies, that this scope was designed for. You only use the specific ACSS HUD DMR 5.56 scope on a gun that is shooting lighter projectiles, than the 5.56 heavies. 

I have 2 or 3 of the mildot 4~14s - I know one is on the 25/45 Sharps, and one is on the heavy Grendel SPR-ish gun.  I think I have another one mounted on something else.

I mounted up the ARC-2 MOA version on Matt's Grendel Mk12 Mod 1 gun, and shot the piss out of it.

They're all good, zero issues at distances out to 900 yards last fall, and the typical max distance that they shoot at is 845 yards.  They all work great. 

I have 2 or 3 of the 1~6PA scopes, too, in SFP, and have never had an issue from any of them.  There's a Griffin Mil 1~6 version on the 18" Light Grendel, a .308 BDC version on a 16" 308, and I'm pretty sure I have a mil-dot version on the .338 Fed gun. 

I can't even count how many of the mini red dots I have on other guns, including one on the 45/70.  I only put it on there to see how long it would take to kill the red dot - and it's not dead yet.  I think I did that in December 2014. 

If you have an issue with one of their scopes, it's gonna be within the warranty period - on the one's that don't have a lifetime warranty.  They willnot give you any grief whatsoever in taking it back and giving you a new one. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by 98Z5V

[CRracer912]

I don't think his scope has an issue, it's just finicky on eye relief and having eye centered so it's a full sight picture.

I know PA has excellent customer service, we haven't tried it out yet.

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa1-8x24mm-second-focal-plane-rifle-scope-with-acss-griffin-mil-reticle-black

That's the one he bought, only in wolf grey as it was on sell in the mid 200 range.

[CRracer912]

Such a beautiful day out today! Pulled out all the stops, whipped out my most expensive scope/mount combo. Presenting the UTG/Leapers 4-16x40 AOB with UTG mounts. Battle and time tested!

This rifle had 9 rounds through it initially, 5 Tula 150gr fmj(one failed to fire) and 5 federal power shock 180gr sp. Rifle upper was disassembled, cleaned and reassembled.

Started today with a 5 round group at 50 yards, zeroed scope and shot another 5 rounds, adjustments we're right on. Used all Tula for those first 10 rounds.

This hi end scope has hold over and under marks(read hi end with tongue in cheek). Moved to 100 yards and used second mark for hold under. First group is 5 shots with federal power shock 180gr sp

Next group is 5 shots federal power shock 150gr sp

Last group is 5 shot Winchester power point 150gr

 

Probably not doing myself any favors here, but I ordered a Larue lt204 with 30mm rings. I haven't pulled the trigger on a scope yet, still mulling that over. I just don't think I can top the quality that is this UTG Leapers scope and ring combo?

 

[unforgiven]

Nice shooting brother

[CRracer912]

Ordered a Nikon Black fx1000 6-24x50 XMOA, gonna be here tomorrow.

They say the scope should cost more than the rifle, with as little as this rifle cost, I was able afford that saying....

It'll be my first ever FFP and apparently first ever scope with an option for an illuminated reticle (I'd rather not and save weight, but oh well).

Really wanted the vx3i 6.5-20 LRP, but FFP for FFP, the Nikon was over 200 cheaper(well, 150 since I had to add a throw lever....). I know better glass is subjective, but all comparisons I could find said the black had better clarity and less CA(both by not much). If it's as good as my Leupold VX2, I'll be a happy camper. If it's like a BSA sweet 223 I looked through once, I'm gonna be pissed....

[willbird]

I have been really happy with any Nikon scope I have looked through. Brother in law bought one for an inline ML and based on what I saw I bought one myself. I bought a couple Nikon P223 as well and have used one and like it, the other is in stock yet waiting for a rifle to appear that needs a scope :-).

Bill