Paladin's Hammer Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 Let me put a thought question to everyone out there, we say we need to build our own and keep them unregistered. I agree, but what about your records? What happens if they decide to confiscate the records from all the 80% manufacturers and distributors then come after those of us that built AR’s that aren’t registered? How do we know they won’t go that route? How do we know that if given enough pressure most dealers won’t break and give in to the feds? What do they do with the database they keep of all the customers who purchased 80% lowers? The truth is our safety begins with the seller, the one who sold us the 80% lowers. Their records are definitely a perfect starting place for the Feds and you have to know that the Feds are thinking the same way. They could also get a list from the shipping companies that sellers do business with and find out who they have shipped to. It may not be as accurate as the sellers list since they only have names and addresses and not detailed items shipped but they could still go that route. So, are we really fooling anyone or are we just fooling ourselves in thinking we are safe? I get sale flyers from so many companies as I'm sure you do. I sent these same questions to all of them and asked them to be kind enough to help us by giving us some answers in their next flyer so that we as customers of theirs can know just how safe or unsafe we really are concerning their records. I read and hear so many people going on and on about our Second Amendment Rights but all I see and hear is a bunch of complaining and "well they can take it from my cold dead fingers" . That's all well and sounds really tough and manly, but what would most of you really do if and when they come to your door??? It's one thing to talk tough, it's a whole other when the rubber meets the road. Some of you know exactly what I'm talking about, but the truth is most people will simply give up their guns rather than defend their rights. Some may think I got a bit off subject but no I haven't. If those that are selling us the components are not in some way protecting our records from the Feds then we WILL have that knock on the door some day. And it may be sooner than most may think. So, in short I say we need to do whatever we can to get our suppliers to keep very very short term records of all of us or to simply delete them all together. Sounds radical? Yup, but we have a radical government. We are only as safe as the records our suppliers keep. So, next time you want to order parts or an 80% lower, you might want to think about the records that are being kept about your purchase. I think we need to start asking our suppliers to delete our records, or at least delete what it is we purchased. There is no perfect solution but we have to start somewhere. What are your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMan3k Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 Good thought, definitely something that should be on our minds. I think if it were an option at the time of checkout for us to request that they delete records of our order after the get delivery confirmation could be an option. Hell, I’m in CA, and would pay an extra few bucks to ensure they did this for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin's Hammer Posted October 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 It isn't like it would be very difficult to delete the records and I think we would all feel safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 No offense, unless your doing a face to face with cash, you are not getting rid of anything. A digital footprint is never really gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunuckgaucho Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 51 minutes ago, Paladin's Hammer said: It isn't like it would be very difficult to delete the records and I think we would all feel safer. Simply hitting delete will not remove the file, just let the system know that space can be overwritten. Also consider that most businesses not only backup onto other drives they have multiple computers are networked to share files. The military and businesses with sensitive information have strict protocols for the permanent removal of files which is physical destruction of the HD. Even reformatting the storage media is no longer considered guaranteed deletion. As edgecrusher says cash is is key but also remember there will be cameras and you've done a cash sale in a world where credit is common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Paladin's Hammer said: It isn't like it would be very difficult to delete the records and I think we would all feel safer. So, you're asking them to "modify" their business records. I'm sure they'll do that for you, and then take on the IRS on their own, if they're ever audited. As far as the other stuff that you mentioned early on, in the first post - there's only ONE record with your name on it, and it's in the bound book that the transferring FFL has, and it's only written. You're fine, unless YOUR gun is recovered at a crime scene. That's when the tracking starts, and the FFL is called, and has 30 minutes to give BATFE the information. They need the serial number from the recovered gun to start that process... so don't ever let it come to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin's Hammer Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, 98Z5V said: So, you're asking them to "modify" their business records. I'm sure they'll do that for you, and then take on the IRS on their own, if they're ever audited. As far as the other stuff that you mentioned early on, in the first post - there's only ONE record with your name on it, and it's in the bound book that the transferring FFL has, and it's only written. You're fine, unless YOUR gun is recovered at a crime scene. That's when the tracking starts, and the FFL is called, and has 30 minutes to give BATFE the information. They need the serial number from the recovered gun to start that process... so don't ever let it come to that. The state of NY has sued 16 80% manufacturers and IS asking for sales records although I believe only asking for NY residents. I have posted this issue on this and one other site and I'm getting a lot of "you're an idiot type of attitude from many" but if NY is doing it, how long before the rest jump in. It all starts somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, Paladin's Hammer said: The state of NY has sued 16 80% manufacturers and IS asking for sales records although I believe only asking for NY residents. I have posted this issue on this and one other site and I'm getting a lot of "you're an idiot type of attitude from many" but if NY is doing it, how long before the rest jump in. It all starts somewhere. I understand what you are saying. It is possible. Just think of the manpower involved to chase down all those 80% receivers. How about all those bumpstocks ordered over the internet and sold in the brick and mortar stores. Not sure they would ever have the manpower to do a good job. Then there is all the boating accidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 48 minutes ago, Paladin's Hammer said: The state of NY has sued 16 80% manufacturers and IS asking for sales records Don't continue to support such an oppressive state. Vote with your feet. Millions have already abandoned that state, but that's mostly the people tired of the state taking their money, through exorbitant taxation. When is it going to be enough for you, and other gun owners? When they're knocking on your door?... When they don't have any more people to tax the shiit out of, they're gonna start looking for new revenue. They won't be able to afford any kind of a "gun buyback"program then - but are they just gonna tax the shiit out of gun owners, then? The business owners that were getting raped - left. They'll come up with something. You'll be paying a $100 "ammo tax background check" for a box of 50 22LR ammo... It's up to you - I'd never live there, and if I did - I'd leave that place. Quick, after the last couple years of "kingdom" mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) There's a LOT of commonality in the states with assinine gun laws. CA, NY, WA, MA, MD, NJ, IL, CT... Even CO... to name the worst ones that just pop to the top of my mind. Know what that commonality is? Liberal-run states. Let that sink in. Look at homelessness and high-crime areas, too. Largest Homelessness? Liberal cities. Largest per-capita crime rates - easily, Chit-cago, maybe followed closely by Baltimore?... Liberal-run cities. You can support what you want, but my tin-foil hat isn't on, and that's not something I need to worry about in the near future, as far as my state goes. What's happening to you isn't something that everyone, in every state needs to worry about. It's what you need to worry about in your own state, and whether you decide to live under those conditions is entirely up to you... Edited October 17, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenworks Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 20 hours ago, 98Z5V said: There's a LOT of commonality in the states with assinine gun laws. CA, NY, WA, MA, MD, NJ, IL, CT... Even CO... to name the worst ones that just pop to the top of my mind. Know what that commonality is? Liberal-run states. Let that sink in. I have been careful about who gets my money, there are many many places to get what we need without supporting liberal run states. I will add this thought for the OP. If you are just now getting started on stockpiling you better throw all you have towards it. There are a ton of pipe dream bills floating around in DC discussing internet sales. You can bet the farm that if a dem gets in office, internet sales for parts and ammunition will be gone with the stroke of a pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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