6.5 creed questions

[PfcSnuffy]

So, I have seen some different opinions. Am curious about who has what experience...

 

First, gas length? I am looking at having a custom barrel spun. Wanting 18". Rifle will be suppressed 100%. Would it be wise to request either +1 or +2 rifle length gas? What size gas port?

 

Plan is JP HP bolt and barrel extension.

 

Intending to use 130gr OTM. Estimating 2650fps. Will take whatever velocity produces the most consistent SD/ES and group.

 

Am AD military, planning on a nightforce nx8 with capped turrets. Something they sell to mil/le persons only. Running kac micro buis.

 

It looks like varget burn rate would be about ideal, maybe a little fast. Thinking that the faster powder would be a better bet with shorter barrel and suppressor setup.

 

Also, what magazines seem to work best? I fell into five new in bag 1st gen asc sr25 magazines. They seem ok, but I cannot seat 20rd magazine fully loaded against a closed bolt. Suspect that loading 18 is an easy solution.

 

Amunitions will be hand loaded on a progressive press. Using a volume drop, checking case fill periodically.

 

Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

Thank you

[dpete]

I'm sure @98Z5V will wander in here at some point.  He more than anyone else has the knowledge you are looking for.  You might get pointed to an already existing thread to read for your answers or get info right here.  LISTEN TO THE GUY!     The Mantra with large frame ARs is "Don't complicate shiit with complicated shiit",  heed it and you will be good to go.

If this is a build from scratch rifle seriously consider getting the upper, lower, and BCG from the same manufacturer!  There is no milspec for these large frames and any manufacturer can do anything they want with parts, at any time, and call it anything they they want.  Getting those three parts from the same manufacturer (not retailer) will ensure that they all work well together.   Aero Precision makes quality parts but with everything these days inventory can be hard to come by.  Many guys here have used their stuff.

Best of luck and hang around and read whatever interests you.  your going to learn a lot.

[Armed Eye Doc]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service.

[PfcSnuffy]

Appreciated.

 

I fell into some parts. Mega maten mkm receiver set. Looking like a jp lightweight carrier, hp bolt and barrel extension. Custom made barrel, which I am looking for some advice based upon DOPE; Data Over Previous Experience.. gas length and port size. Going to likely buy a 4140 barrel and have it chromed inside/out after it is running.

 

Looking like a 5R single point cut barrel. I have heard of gain twist, but know little about it beyond it allegedly allows lower chamber pressure while stabilizing bullets as a constant twist would. Read claims of better life, better sealing, etall. Unless someone has real world values on gain twist - likely a wash. Probably a brux or kreiger 1:8 twist.

 

Looking like ubr2 buttpiece with tubbs flatwire and spikes h3 buffer. Already have geissele nm dmr trigger. Probably the .936" two piece gasblock from JP.

 

Using the nx8 1-8. Zeroing for an effect combat zero. By the sight height and zero distance, mathbook say it should have a 6" vertical spread from 0-500m. Ideally will be good enough for intended use.

 

Again, any advice on throat depth for seating the 130otm berger, how much jump into lands these bullets like/tolerate... gas port size&location(gas system length), load datas.. all appreciated.

 

I searched the reloading subsection of forum but found very little.

 

Thank you all.

 

V/R

Snuffy

[98Z5V]

Snuffy, what's your goal for this gun?  That's first and foremost.  What do you want it to do for you?  Hunting, blasting steel targets at a grand...  Need the objective of the rifle build, first.

For getting those Berger 130s to 2650fps,that should be easy.  I'm getting the Hornady ELD-M 147s to 2650, in my .260 Rem gas gun.

I'll address more, as it goes along. 

P.S.  Ditch the lightweight carrier.  This all comes back around to what you want to do with the gun, than anything else, but those are Race Gun parts.  If you're building a Race Gun to go win more competition money, with that specific competition load, then I get it. Otherwise, it's a waste of diagnostic time when the gun doesn't run right, and it's a waste of money.

Just use a regular, full-mass BCG, either nitrided or NiB.  I recommend ToolCraft.

We'll get into the recoil system shortly.

Edited August 23, 2021 by 98Z5V

[PfcSnuffy]

I picked up a mega rifle that was built. Had 18" nitrided stainless criterion 308 barrel on it. Rifle gas. Owner said dee wilson bolt carrier group.

 

I want something better than the 308. Sure, the 175smk m118lr has a bit more energy up close, but it drops like a brick. 2400fps on 175gr and that BC is not getting me anywhere for the extra recoil.

 

If reusing the current carrier with a new bolt is fine, awesome.

 

It is a gasgun, thusly benchrest is out of equation....

 

Those 130gr otm make a decent exit wound, offer less recoil(easier to watch the impact and faster follow ups). Goal is effective life taking. In the 150-350lbs realm of mammals.

 

I hear 6.5x55 is used on larger four legged game. Which makes me believe well placed shot could take elk or mule within 250yards. Though that is not going to likely be on docket.

 

Ubr2 for weight to balance build. No one likes a front heavy rifle. Using a5 tube length and ar15 carbine buffer makes parts easy. I have heard the spikes tungsten powder buffers work well. No personal experience.

 

In certain subjects - less is more. Please help me make decisions about gas lengths, throating, yes/no progressive twist rates... things of that nature.

 

I can make sure the gastube is properly bent to be center in upper, so gas key slides over.. the gasblock is centered over barrel gas port.. know how to remove ejector and extractor from bolt for using a headspace guage...

 

In short, put a few large and small AR's together. Not skilled at it, no insight or experience and most certainly not measuring genitals.

 

All I want is help on certain subjects. If in a rare issue something comes up.. that a few bends, file swipes.. or judicious application of polishing cannot fix, I will bring up consultations.

 

Thank you.

 

V/R

Snuffy

[98Z5V]

That's a solid setup, right out of the gate, right there.  That Criterion barrel is a good one.  No need for custom barrels, when you've got that in there already.

So, right off the bat, I don't own any 6.5 Creedmoors -none.  But I do have a .260 Rem gas gun that is just a laser.  As you probably know, those two cartridges are virtually twins, with the case capacity and velocity advantage going to the .260 over the creed.  So I can speak on the 6.5C, as well.  I know the capabilities of the cartridge design, as well as the projectile. 

You stated this as an objective, but never stated a max range for that objective...

19 minutes ago, PfcSnuffy said:

Goal is effective life taking. In the 150-350lbs realm of mammals.

 

[98Z5V]

Here's my numbers - my own DOPE - on my two guns. 

.308 Win gas gun, Mk11 build, 18.5" Krieger-Criterion custom profile for Fulton Armory, rifle gas, 0.936" gas block diameter.  I load Hornady 178gr ELD-X projectiles that leave the barrel at 2530fps.  0.278 G7 on that projo (0.552 G1).  It blows M118LR out of the water for speed, and it's an expanding projo.  It's supersonic to 1050 yards, with 491 ft/lbs of energy at that distance.

So, that's the question for the purpose of the rifle - which was partially answered - but the max engagement distance still needs to be known for that goal.

Here's the data on my .260 Rem load - of which, the 6.5 Creemoor would be very close, if loaded with the same projectile, at the same muzzle velocity...

.260 Rem gas gun, 20" Wilson Combat hunter profile barrel, rifle gas, 0.750" gas block diameter.  I load Hornady 147gr ELD-M projectiles that leave the barrel at 3650fps 2650fps. 0.351 G7 (0.697 G1). Supersonic to 1500 yards.  I'm about to "coax" it another 260 yards, and shoot it at the mile target.  Compared to the .308 Win 178 ELX load at 1050 yards, this load has 755 ft/lbs of energy at that distance.  At it's 1500 max supersonic, it's 420 ft.lbs of energy. 

So, your stated goal, without a distance, in kinda vague-for-a-reason, the distance still needs to be known.  Depending on max range, my advice might be "don't change a thing, shoot the gun, and come up with a good handload."  My advice might change, based on that max distance. 

P.S.  For your chosen recoil system components, buy the Armalite EA1095 recoil spring.  Gas port diameter for a .308 Win 18" rifle gas barrel with a 0.750" gas block journal should be around 0.096". Gas block journal size is key to this number, and gas port diameter changes when it's larger or smaller.  For my .260 Rem, 20" rifle gas barrel with 0.750" journal size, my gas port diameter is 0.080".  Also, NO, you do not need +1 or +2 rifle gas system on an 18" barrel.  Ever.  Standard rifle gas is more than sufficient.

Edited August 24, 2021 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

Which Nightforce NX8?  There are 3 different mag ranges.  This ties into the max distance question...

[98Z5V]

12 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

It looks like varget burn rate would be about ideal, maybe a little fast. Thinking that the faster powder would be a better bet with shorter barrel and suppressor setup.

 

Also, what magazines seem to work best? I fell into five new in bag 1st gen asc sr25 magazines. They seem ok, but I cannot seat 20rd magazine fully loaded against a closed bolt. Suspect that loading 18 is an easy solution.

 

Amunitions will be hand loaded on a progressive press. Using a volume drop, checking case fill periodically.

Varget and Alliant RL-15 are about identical, so both are great for .308.Win heavies and 5.56 heavies.  For Creedmore, there are better powders out there.  On my .260 147 ELD-M loads, I use RL-22.  RL-17 is supposed to be THE SHEIT for 6.5 heavies like these.  I'm not switching, I have a laserbeam. On my .308 178gr ELD-X loads, I only use Accurate 2495 powder. 

Next, mags.  MagPul LR-20 Pmags.  Fully loaded, they're 2lbs each.  Something to think about.  The 25rd MagPuls would be up next.  If you feel like spending more money for better mags than that, get the Lancers.  They are unrivaled.

Next, the reloading. Sounds like you're looking for precision, and not bulk-range-ammo.  For my precision handloads, I use a single stage press, individually drop each charge lower than I want, and trickle every single one of them up to my desired load charge weight.  I don't use a progressive,and check case fill periodically.  Not for precision loads.  No way. 

For my bulk range ammo, that's okay.  115gr 9mm, 55gr 5.56, 150gr .308, 150gr .300BLK...  yeah, set the powder measure, get it accurate, check every 8 or 10 drops.  That's fine for range ammo.  Doesn't work for precision ammo, and that seems to be the direction you state you're going.  My $0.02 on that part.

Edited August 23, 2021 by 98Z5V

[PfcSnuffy]

Interesting. Please elaborate more on the diameter of barrel where gasblock attaches, versus size of gas port?

 

I am looking for ideally the fastest powder which will make my goals, in effort so suppression device will be utilized most fully.

 

You claim 3650fps with a 147gr 26cal. I am suspecting typographical error and correction is as follows; "2650fps".

 

If that is the matter, I suspect being closer to 2800fps with a 130gr. I was being optimistic.

 

I have both a 650xl dillon and a few single stage presses. My views are a bit different. Good whidden die setup on 650 and staying consistent produces reasonable results. Especially if brass is annealed, cases are uniformed in primer pocket and neck dimensions.

 

Gas guns are a bit less gentle during chambering. Bullets either set back when hitting feed ramp and stay back, or they jump forward and potentially jam into the lands. Which know.

 

1-8x nx8. For size and weight. Nothing beyond 1000m. A person might say "handy". Again, the barrel in mind is going to be every bit a bull barrel. Less length, less whip. Suppressor will only come off for servicing weapon. Which brings question of using a longer gas system.

 

Estimating the 130gr at 2650fps and my estimated center of glass to center of barrel gives an effective 0-500m point blank shooting, on grounds of sub six inch vertical spread being acceptable. Bringing the velocity up to 2800 only cements this.

 

Back to subject of handloading - the single stage is wonderful. Though, using a 30" powder drop and setting exact neck tension by bushings... I feel is lost on the gas gun. Also, I feel that the gasgun never truly is sub minute/angle. Fliers. Yes, I have seen wonderful groups and plenty of times there are 1/2" 100m patterns. Absolutely amazing. Though again, I personally would never claim a gas gun anything better than one minute accurate.

 

Back to the barrel - i was curious about gain twist. Seems bartlein swears by increasing roughly by 1. If end goal is 1:8, start at 1:9. Am thinking a 1.25" bull blank from them, tapered fluting, a 0.936" gasblock and using threads larger than 5/8" would work well. Ideally sending the broke in barrel to armoloy in ft worth. Suppressors tend to burn up barrels and the creed is not known to live very long. Hope that very thin plating should add some lifespan. Again, this is not a benchrest rifle.

 

Maximum range is dictated beyond numbers on screen or paper. Too many conditions exist. Though again, 1000m. By the charts, a 130 otm will run the 175smk pretty hard out there. Less drop, drift and recoil. Little less flight time for the 130gr and a bit more retained energy.

 

Current barrel is a m118lr chambered hybrid contour with .750" gasblock. It shoots plenty fine off of 175smk seconds from sierra's outlet, forget what charge... have to check a diary. Regardless, it was printing consistent one inch patterns. Was getting 2400fps. You are really smoking. That velocity you claim is producing the least sd/es and tightest group? I usually find a good recipe by single stage, then set up the dillon and run a few hundred. Keep in mind, I am meaning an hour or two for day worth of shooting. Between prep, check, filling machine and working gently.

[PfcSnuffy]

Using berger calculator, their 6.5mm 130gr otm at 2800fps smokes their 30cal 175gr otm moving at 2500fps.

 

The 175 has almost the same energy, however is 0.3seconds slower to 1000m and is moving right at 1100fps. That is the flutter zone. 6.5mm is still moving ~1500fps. Which arguably means that 130gr otm will open decently. At least to 800m. Whereas the 175gr is likely not opening past 600m.

 

I think the creed would be a better choice. Reduced case capacity and a better shoulder angle to reduce throat erosion versus a 260. I like the 260rem, when it is blow forward into a 6.5-08 40* improved. Wonderful when loading to 2.9" coal with the 140gr bullets and a nice 24" barrel. Makes a screaming bolt gun.

 

Though for gas gun.. the extra capacity seems pointless to my ends. Even at a 22" barrel and suppressor.. it gets heavy. Bolt gun on a light stock, you will notice it less.

 

Appreciate you. Not insulting, degrading or demeaning. Just my personal views. These are opinion and not fact. If your opinions on usage or selection vary, I am not upset.. I am not trying nor will try to sway you either. Again, this is what I see based upon many reported load datas and ballistic charts. It seems to fit my overall needs. Plunging effect and prolonged flight time of 308 are... challenging. Currently, I am burning the barrel out of the rifle using m118lr loads off a dillon. Experience is priceless. However, when the barrel gives ghost, I want something better.

 

Please, explain more about all the barrel journal diameter vs gas port diameter business and elaborate as to why the extended gas systems are not needed?

 

I had initially thought going to a h1 buffer and a light mass carrier with extending the gas would be wise. Less jarring effect on ammunition during chambering. Allowing me to use a .003 or .004 neck tension via bushing. Whatever was tight, but did not cut/shave jacket while seating. But, the less momentum means more probability of stoppages. Life is always a compromise. Sadly.

 

V/R

Snuffy

[PfcSnuffy]

I meant to say, roughly 6minutes of drop at 500m. Comes out on book right about 7minutes. Apologies, my brain sometimes gets fuzzy. 400m is 5minutes.

 

Estimating roughly a 42" drop at 500m. Using 130gr at 2800fps.

 

Explain more, will check back tonight. Have to go do that report thing. Lord knows we all love hearing cannons and the sky making funny sounds while standing inna rectangular shape every morning.

 

Snuffy

[Magwa]

I shoot a ton of 6.5 bullets both from Creedmoor and 6.5x284 Norma H4350 is your friend with both Calibers in creedmoor I shoot 43 grains at 2810 with 140 ELD  sd of 8 now that is in a bolt gun, you will most likely drop a grain or so in a gas gun any one who reloads knows start lower and work up all of them are different. all I do is shoot long range steel matches and shoot rocks etc when I hunt and I do it a lot i use a 308 gas gun 16 inch barrel with 168 TTsx barnes bullets if you want to know any particulars about either just ask...

P.S. these guns are heavy I mean heavy put a can on the end and they get long and heavy so choose wisely for the guns purpose that is why I use 16 inch barrel on my hunting rifle with can it is then 24 inches...

[PfcSnuffy]

I had looked at a can that would add only six inches to barrel length. Thus giving the feel of 24" barrel.

 

Spoke with.. Mark(?) at Bartlein. He gave me a ring this morning. We spoke for a few minutes. Basically recommended their new proprietary stainless. Said carbon has almost gone away and said to not bother at all with chrome linings. He also stated that gain twist helps but it is only a minimal difference. That increasing twist ought be kept between 0.5 to 1.0 rate increase. Such as 1:9 to 1:8.

Additionally he naysayed the qpq/melonite/nitride business as well. Something about it alters barrel tempering and changes dimensions. Suppose I learned a lot..

 

Think it sounds like I ought run a generic stainless barrel, unsure if paying for two barrels and getting one with their fancy new alloy is worth it... because a bull barrel blank in carbon is going to be 12months wait, according to them.

 

Also, why the armalite coil spring versus the flatwire action springs? In theory, roundwire will offer less drag.. which is nice. Though it seems that flat wires have more spring weight when the bolt is closed?

 

All guidance about powders, gas systems(port size&location), recoil systems(reciprocating system mass. Total of buffer and bcg), spring rates.. wonderful and appreciated. Very much so.

 

I was looking at shooterworld powders. Either long rifle or sw4350. They claim longrifle is made for the creedmoor. Will refer to more book load data about the 130gr bullets. Again, am suspecting that selection of most fast burning powder will probably yield best results. Idea is, allows suppressor to catch all the expanding gas.. rather than there being a portion of unburned powder igniting inside the can. Would need to estimate burn rates and try some powders that have a high 90's percent of burn before exiting muzzle.

 

Stopped by to update everyone. Please fill me in on your experiences please. Thank you.

 

V/R

Snuffy

 

[98Z5V]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:30 AM, PfcSnuffy said:

Interesting. Please elaborate more on the diameter of barrel where gasblock attaches, versus size of gas port?

Years of experiance building these things, and seeing what works, and what needs modified.  There's no reference to link to, unless I could link my brain into here.   I've posted about it all over this site, when questions of gas port diameter come up. 

I am looking for ideally the fastest powder which will make my goals, in effort so suppression device will be utilized most fully.

 

You claim 3650fps with a 147gr 26cal. I am suspecting typographical error and correction is as follows; "2650fps".

2650 is correct, and that was a typo putting in 3650.  The 147s are screaming through that barrel, for what they are.  This IS based off best groups, which I ladder all the way up to pressure signs on the brass, then I back down to the best groups that are under pressure signs.  Then, the chrono comes out to see what they were. 

If that is the matter, I suspect being closer to 2800fps with a 130gr. I was being optimistic.

 

I have both a 650xl dillon and a few single stage presses. My views are a bit different. Good whidden die setup on 650 and staying consistent produces reasonable results. Especially if brass is annealed, cases are uniformed in primer pocket and neck dimensions.

I have a big set of Whidden dies here right now.  Dedicated to 500 Blackout.

Gas guns are a bit less gentle during chambering. Bullets either set back when hitting feed ramp and stay back, or they jump forward and potentially jam into the lands. Which know.

I always use Lee Factory Crimp Dies for gas guns.  Setting neck tension through bushings is bolt gun practice.  For gas guns, It's Lee Factory Crimp Dies.  There is no bullet setback, and nothing elongating when chambered, if it's crimped correctly. If all cases are trimmed to the same length beforehand, inner and outer chamfered with a VLD chamfer tool, then the neck tension will be identical on all loaded rounds, through that crimp die.  And those projos won't move in the case, during the cyclic operation on an AR.

1-8x nx8. For size and weight. Nothing beyond 1000m. A person might say "handy". Again, the barrel in mind is going to be every bit a bull barrel. Less length, less whip. Suppressor will only come off for servicing weapon. Which brings question of using a longer gas system.

No need for a longer gas system, for what you're planning.  18" rifle gas has a dwell time of 4.875".  You start nibbling away at that dwell time with a longer gas system, and you have to increase your gas port diameter - for negligible gains in felt recoil, or on parts wear.  

Estimating the 130gr at 2650fps and my estimated center of glass to center of barrel gives an effective 0-500m point blank shooting, on grounds of sub six inch vertical spread being acceptable. Bringing the velocity up to 2800 only cements this.

 

Back to subject of handloading - the single stage is wonderful. Though, using a 30" powder drop and setting exact neck tension by bushings... I feel is lost on the gas gun. Also, I feel that the gasgun never truly is sub minute/angle. Fliers. Yes, I have seen wonderful groups and plenty of times there are 1/2" 100m patterns. Absolutely amazing. Though again, I personally would never claim a gas gun anything better than one minute accurate.

I agree on the bushing for neck tension on gas guns.  Above comment on my view for gas guns.  I disagree on gas guns not being sub-MOA.  I have several that are.

Back to the barrel - i was curious about gain twist. Seems bartlein swears by increasing roughly by 1. If end goal is 1:8, start at 1:9. Am thinking a 1.25" bull blank from them, tapered fluting, a 0.936" gasblock and using threads larger than 5/8" would work well. Ideally sending the broke in barrel to armoloy in ft worth. Suppressors tend to burn up barrels and the creed is not known to live very long. Hope that very thin plating should add some lifespan. Again, this is not a benchrest rifle.

There's zero need for it, based on your desire for the gun.  Standard rifling twist rates will do what you need/want, to the distances that you desire.  Don't waste the money on something like gain-twist. 

Maximum range is dictated beyond numbers on screen or paper. Too many conditions exist. Though again, 1000m. By the charts, a 130 otm will run the 175smk pretty hard out there. Less drop, drift and recoil. Little less flight time for the 130gr and a bit more retained energy.

I agree.  That's why I moved from 175 SMKs to Hornady 175 BPBTs to Hornady 178 ELD-Xs - make the .308 Win a little better.  But, it's still not better than my .260, outside of delivering a slightly larger hole.

Current barrel is a m118lr chambered hybrid contour with .750" gasblock. It shoots plenty fine off of 175smk seconds from sierra's outlet, forget what charge... have to check a diary. Regardless, it was printing consistent one inch patterns. Was getting 2400fps. You are really smoking. That velocity you claim is producing the least sd/es and tightest group? I usually find a good recipe by single stage, then set up the dillon and run a few hundred. Keep in mind, I am meaning an hour or two for day worth of shooting. Between prep, check, filling machine and working gently.

Yes, 2530 for 178 ELD-Xs through an 18.5" barrel, through the chrono.  That load was specifically built for that gas gun.  Again, load development steps listed above.  0.2gr steps, shoot to pressure signs appear, back down to the node with the tightest group, then chrono that best load, under the pressure signs.  I don't care what the speed is, until the end.  Then, I only care about it so I can make accurate DOPE charts for it.

Density Altitude is king for accurate distance...    

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

This is the .308 Win Mk11 gas gun that I'm talking about:

[PfcSnuffy]

Interesting. Appreciated. So, the .083 to .089" port at m16 rifle length gas will be just fine.

 

Yeah, I suspect a generic stainless bull blank spun down and fluted should give good results. Initially I had planned either brux or krieger. Though, I never turn down options for learning. What was said by fellow at bartlein.. definitely enlightened me.

 

I have never used this vld chamfer tool. Will investigate. My rcbs case prep station does basic work over five steps.

 

How do you like the 500 blackout? Never heard of it before. 50cal out of 338 lapua mag brass at 1000fps? Ugh... I have a 338 spectre build slowly going but.. yeah. Good luck.

 

I have heard a lot of people say lee crimp die. Always used some rcbs or similar taper crimps.

 

After looking at the 300gr 338cal otm berger has, against the 950fps muzzle velocity.. I almost thought to just use a 22" heavy fluted bull barrel for a 6.5creed with 1:8 twist and launch those 130otm's at 2900fps. Use the spectre for sub 300 yard business. Drops like cannonball, but it loses only 60fps between muzzle and 300.

 

May just go with a 4-20atacr and 1-8 nx8.

 

As said, appreciated.

 

You mentioned using the armalite springs. Any reason that specific spring over any others? I have used the jp silent capture, the tubbs springs, even tried the slash heavy buffer business.... eh.. i think the tubbs spring and adjusting gas worked "best"(easiest).. the silent capture was nice. More work than the tubbs route and not certain if it is actually "more efficient". Though, it is nice by merit. Not likely ever to use the heavy buffer system again.

 

Really thinking about switching to a light mass buffer and carrier for the long gun. I am pretty consistent with cleaning. Although, reducing mass in rear of rifle does offset balance. Makes me think about few other things. Have seen people put lead weights in a2 stocks and the ubr stocks.

 

Appreciate your time. Please, feel free to fire at will your experiences all over this thread.. until you suffer from a flaming barrel and pile of dissentigrated links crowding your nest.

 

Have any you all tried the spikes tungsten powder buffers and seen real world results being different or noticed versus a standard tungsten slug buffer? I am curious - but.. after being bitten by other snakeoils.

 

Thank you all.

 

V/R

Snuffy

[PfcSnuffy]

3 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

This is the .308 Win Mk11 gas gun that I'm talking about:

Got the pin on suppressor to go with it?

[98Z5V]

17 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

Got the pin on suppressor to go with it?

Nope.  Eventually, the forward end of that barrel gets machined, so an Allen Engineering AEM5 drops right on. 

[PfcSnuffy]

3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Nope.  Eventually, the forward end of that barrel gets machined, so an Allen Engineering AEM5 drops right on. 

Not the KAC special gas block and suppressor?

 

I never really understood the purpose of their spring setup under gasblock.

 

Aem5 is pretty slick. I always thought a tapered thread and machined flange between gasblock and muzzle would make for an amazing reflex mount. Solid lockup and less distortion on the end of barrel. The aem somewhat does that. Though, I would much prefer a larger diameter barrel and effectively floating the muzzle.

 

Truth be told.. I have a mill, lathe and decent welder. Have been looking into form1 suppressors..

 

Still torn on what size barrel I ought do for this long gun.

 

This is why I have been asking about gas system lengths, port sizes and considerations to other factors.

[98Z5V]

17 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

Interesting. Appreciated. So, the .083 to .089" port at m16 rifle length gas will be just fine.

For which caliber?  the Creed or .308 Win that you have?  That's not enough for the 18" .308 Win riflegas.  That would be okay on an 18" 6.5C gas gun.  I'm 0.080" on a 20" riflegas .260.  Lose dwell time (20" down to 18"), up the gas port diameter.  0.082" or 0.086" will work on an 18" 6.5 C.  I used those numbers because they're #45 and #44 numbered drill bits, in that order.   You shouldn't have to go over that #44 drill bit on that barrel.  Pending journal size,of course.  That's referenced off a 0.750" journal size.

20 minutes ago, PfcSnuffy said:

Still torn on what size barrel I ought do for this long gun.

This is why I have been asking about gas system lengths, port sizes and considerations to other factors.

I'd do 18".  I think 18" is perfect.  If I could have bought an 18" .260 barrel when I built that gun, I would have.  The shortest decent barrel I could buy-right-now was that 20" from Wilson Combat.  It shipped with a 0.070" gas port, so once I figured that out and drilled it up to 0.080", it'll eat anything, and it runs like a champ.  I'd love it even more if it was an 18" barrel. It does so well as it is, that I'll never change anything about it.

You laid down alot of information - I'll answer the stuff that I know in a little while.  

Oh, zero interest in that KAC M110 suppressor.  Or their gas block for it. I'm sure it's magic, on that platform.  I'd take it if it was issued, but have no desire to buy one. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

17 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

Have any you all tried the spikes tungsten powder buffers and seen real world results being different or noticed versus a standard tungsten slug buffer? I am curious - but.. after being bitten by other snakeoils.

I have one of the T2 (H2) powdered tungsten Spike's buffers.  It's no different that any other H2 with 3 reciprocating weights.  It's no game changer.  Shiitty thing is, I can never make it heavier or lighter, by changing out a steel weight for a tungsten.  It is what it ships as, no way to reconfigure it it needed... As an H2-weighted buffer, it does it's job.  If there were no regular H2 buffers in stock anywhere, and I needed one, and it was available, I'd buy it.

[PfcSnuffy]

So, any cheapo h2/h3 buffer will do me then. Ok. Sounds good. How are the tweaked and tuned toys running with lightweight carriers and buffers, when paired with a heavy spring?

 

You have mentioned a few times the gas port size varies versus the diameter of barrel where gas block attaches. Do larger diameters use larger ports, due to a longer travel path at said size?

[98Z5V]

Smaller diameters use larger ports, larger diameters use smaller ports - for the same barrel configuration.  Change dwell time, changes port.  Change gas system length, changes port.  There's a ton of variables.  That's why the barrel construction details are paramount, trying to figure out someone's running issue. 

Recoil system issues are the bulk of the problem for Large Frame ARs.  After that, it's gas system problems, in a close second. Beyond those two, it's someone that didn't tell us that they had mismatched components, or 80% receivers, or something like that.

Lightweight BCGs belong in Race Guns.  Fancy recoil systems belong in Race Guns. Adjustable gas blocks shouldn't be "necessary" unless you run suppressed AND unsuppressed.