Midwest AR10 Reaction Rod Issue

[M5Pilot]

I just bought a new Daniel Defense DD5V5 in 260 and bought the Midwest AR10 reaction rod as it's had good reviews.  I have not shot the new rifle yet.  The reaction rod came in yesterday so I checked it out in my new rifle.  First it wouldn't slide past the forward assist so I popped the roll pin out, removed the forward assist and it continued in but would not engage or go into the locking lugs on the barrel.  The splines are not lined up.  So I took the spine off the top of the tool as it can rotate in any direction now and it will only engage the lugs about 1/16 of an inch and go no further.  I saw a video where the spine on top of the tool being in the charging channel grove orients the rod correctly so if the barrel is clocked, it wouldn't engage.  Either the rod is out of spec or the gun is.  I forwarded this issue to DD tech support and they are getting up with their engineers.  Has anyone had a Midwest reaction rod out of spec?

[98Z5V]

19 hours ago, M5Pilot said:

Has anyone had a Midwest reaction rod out of spec?

Just for feedback - I've never used them.  Won't, either.  I can tell you that I've only used Geissele Reaction Rods, and never not once had an issue using them.  My 5.56 Reaction Rod is very heavily used, and abused. My .308 Reaction Rod (previously) didn't see as much action as the 5.56 did - but I now have it in my Gun Pusher's shop, on permanent loan - if I ever need it, I go by and pick it up, use it at home, and get it back to him.  It's gone through hundreds of builds, just in the shop.   It's been in his shop for years - and when it's time to build up a Large-Frame gun, he usually calls me to do it. 

So, not the feedback you were really looking for on your specific tool - but feedback on the tools in general.  The first one made (the Geissele) is the best one, IMHO.

[M5Pilot]

Thanks for your feedback.  DD wants to see the gun to check it out so I'll know soon if its the tool or not.  DD said that their DD5 barrel extensions are very different than standard extensions.  The extensions don't thread on and are timed with the upper and they are machined as one piece with the flange.  They are guessing the tool might be off but want to see the gun anyway. 

[M5Pilot]

Update:  Got my rifle back from DD today and they said that they have a proprietary barrel and extension as they are machined as 1 piece and there is no threaded barrel nut.  They said the Midwest Ind and Geissele reaction rods are not compatible with DD AR10's.  This might save someone from ordering one if they have a DD.  I called Midwest tech support also to let them know so they can add an exclusion list.

[blue109]

Good info. 

[jtallen83]

4 hours ago, M5Pilot said:

they are machined as 1 piece and there is no threaded barrel nut.

Now I wanna see one.

[Keith E.]

I appreciate you posting this as I'm currently compiling a tool list.

 

Keith

[StarWolf]

I'm a tool hoarder.
I've been using the Geissele Reaction Rods for years. Got the 308 one before any of the shops around here did and have used it on many builds. Loaned it to my friend who owned the shop to take apart a nasty build for a customer upgrade once upon a time and he swore it was the only reason he could disassemble the gun. I recently purchased the Midwest Upper Receiver Rods over the holidays when they were on sale. I didn't really need them but I LIKE Midwest, the price was finally cut down to almost reasonable and I'm a tool hoarder.

A coworker of mine recently decided to dip his toe into the large frame AR world. I offered to help with his build since I've done a few and collected most of the tools. I don't however loan out my tools very often so I come with the tools. He's got a new baby and meeting up wasn't working out. He missed a few suggestions on my build parts list and he jumped the gun a little on the assembly, without the proper tools. So AFTER a false start or three and some damage to the rail on his upper, he asked me to torque the barrel nut and dimple the barrel for the gas block. He's using a Aero Precision receiver set. He got the barrel from me. It's a Axem 18" .308 Cromo with a .750" rifle gas journal. I've got another couple of them in the parts bin and passed another of them to another friend a few years ago. They LOOK like Ballistics Advantage product that might have been produced for Axem and were leftovers from a buy a shop guy did to get the one he wanted to build. The shop owner passed them to me when he moved out of state.

When I slide the Reaction Rod down the receiver it didn't want to go into the extension. Maybe a 1/16th +/- but no more.
Same deal with the MI URR, no sliding into the extension. So I go to pull out the other barrels out of the bin.
The MI URR slides into the extension on an identical barrel, no sweat. Tiny bit of play once it bottoms out inside the extension. The GRR on the other hand goes in tight no more than about 1/8th of an inch. SO I pull out yet another .308 barrel I've had lying around for a while. This one is a Midway special (AR Stoner maybe, possibly rebranded Bear Creek?) The GRR goes in tight, near zero play but it bottoms out. The MI URR goes all the way down as well but has a tiny bit of rotational play when you try to twist it.

I think I'm going to have to use the Plastix Revolution vise blocks to take this puppy apart so I can inspect it before I go forward. I'm thinking about using the MI tool to get it back together and torqued up to spec, assuming there's no damage under the barrel nut and that I can get it lined up in the receiver and on the tool before starting the nut.

I'll probably dig out the other couple .308 barrels I've got in the parts bin to see if the pattern holds true. I've been thinking I might need to deburr the GRR a little the past two or three builds but it's always slid right in and all the way home before. The MI URR needs a little deburring on the vise side as the square end where it was cut off is darned sharp.

The MI URR seems to be in the same ball park as the GRR for quality. I do like the fact that they squared off the shaft so it can still be used at 0 and 90 even with the sail.

[StarWolf]

I'm a tool hoarder.
I've been using the Geissele Reaction Rods for years. Got the 308 one before any of the shops around here did and have used it on many builds. Loaned it to my friend who owned the shop to take apart a nasty build for a customer upgrade once upon a time and he swore it was the only reason he could disassemble the gun. I recently purchased the Midwest Upper Receiver Rods over the holidays when they were on sale. I didn't really need them but I LIKE Midwest, the price was finally cut down to almost reasonable and I'm a tool hoarder.

A coworker of mine recently decided to dip his toe into the large frame AR world. I offered to help with his build since I've done a few and collected most of the tools. I don't however loan out my tools very often so I come with the tools. He's got a new baby and meeting up wasn't working out. He missed a few suggestions on my build parts list and he jumped the gun a little on the assembly, without the proper tools. So AFTER a false start or three and some damage to the rail on his upper, he asked me to torque the barrel nut and dimple the barrel for the gas block. He's using a Aero Precision receiver set. He got the barrel from me. It's a Axem 18" .308 Cromo with a .750" rifle gas journal. I've got another couple of them in the parts bin and passed another of them to another friend a few years ago. They LOOK like Ballistics Advantage product that might have been produced for Axem and were leftovers from a buy a shop guy did to get the one he wanted to build. The shop owner passed them to me when he moved out of state.

When I slide the Reaction Rod down the receiver it didn't want to go into the extension. Maybe a 1/16th +/- but no more.
Same deal with the MI URR, no sliding into the extension. So I go to pull out the other barrels out of the bin.
The MI URR slides into the extension on an identical barrel, no sweat. Tiny bit of play once it bottoms out inside the extension. The GRR on the other hand goes in tight no more than about 1/8th of an inch. SO I pull out yet another .308 barrel I've had lying around for a while. This one is a Midway special (AR Stoner maybe, possibly rebranded Bear Creek?) The GRR goes in tight, near zero play but it bottoms out. The MI URR goes all the way down as well but has a tiny bit of rotational play when you try to twist it.

I think I'm going to have to use the Plastix Revolution vise blocks to take this puppy apart so I can inspect it before I go forward. I'm thinking about using the MI tool to get it back together and torqued up to spec, assuming there's no damage under the barrel nut and that I can get it lined up in the receiver and on the tool before starting the nut.

I'll probably dig out the other couple .308 barrels I've got in the parts bin to see if the pattern holds true. I've been thinking I might need to deburr the GRR a little the past two or three builds but it's always slid right in and all the way home before. The MI URR needs a little deburring on the vise side as the square end where it was cut off is darned sharp.

The MI URR seems to be in the same ball park as the GRR for quality. I do like the fact that they squared off the shaft so it can still be used at 0 and 90 even with the sail.

[sketch]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:10 PM, 98Z5V said:

Just for feedback - I've never used them.  Won't, either.  I can tell you that I've only used Geissele Reaction Rods, and never not once had an issue using them.  My 5.56 Reaction Rod is very heavily used, and abused. My .308 Reaction Rod (previously) didn't see as much action as the 5.56 did - but I now have it in my Gun Pusher's shop, on permanent loan - if I ever need it, I go by and pick it up, use it at home, and get it back to him.  It's gone through hundreds of builds, just in the shop.   It's been in his shop for years - and when it's time to build up a Large-Frame gun, he usually calls me to do it. 

So, not the feedback you were really looking for on your specific tool - but feedback on the tools in general.  The first one made (the Geissele) is the best one, IMHO.

Good trade!

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, sketch said:

Good trade!

Massive good trade, brother - worked for both of us, directly then, and it was perfect.