unforgiven Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/14-5.html Contacted PSA regarding a 14.7 5.56 upper on the reccommendation of brother 98-Tom.Asked the girl if I could have the flash hider not to be permanently attached she said no,asked to speak to someone else she put me in touch with a youngman asked him the same question told him I wanted to put my own device at the end and told him I was a member of .308AR.He spoke to his boss,who said OK and was going to change the computer so that now everyone has an option to put their own device at the end of barrel.+1 for PSA and listening to the end user.Will start a project in a few weeks and will purchase their upper.For the money with BCG and charging handle great value.Kudos to PSA. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Kinda wonder if they can do that legally , because that makes it a SBR . As soon as you get it & have ANY lower it can be put on , its a complete rifle . That would make you in possesion of a unregistered SBR . Having just the barrel & not attached to a receiver , is some thing else .Just some thing to look into . For your own good & maybe there's . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Like you said its not an SBR until you have upper and lower together.Once I chose the muzzle device I want I'll do what I have to make legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just called my local P.D. Sgt. will call back,will know more later. <dontknow> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinsterurge Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I was under the impression just having the parts in the same "area" could be looked at as "intent" to assemble....be careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Kinda wonder if they can do that legally , because that makes it a SBR . Not an SBR until it's attached to something. Until then, it's only an upper. It's not up to the company to decide what you do with your NFA Items. It's up to the end user. If I want to purchase a 14.5" barrel, or an 11.5" barrel, or a 7.5" complete upper, it's none of that company's business what I do with it. Just an upper, or even a barrel, is not an NFA Item by itself. When I'm looking at stuff like that online, I appreciate the company listing a warning that says "NFA Items are your responsibility," et al. When I see a company that lists a 11.5" barrel, and tells you you can't buy it because it's an NFA Item, then they tel me I need to order from a dealer - I don't buy that item from them at all. They have NO idea whether I'm building a legal SBR, or a pistol from that part - nor should they care. ATF says you can own it without a purchase-restriction, to the company shouldn't be placing a restriction on the individual.I don't like the fact that YHM does this - but I still buy from them, once in awhile. Most of the time, if I'm looking for a YHM part, I buy it from a vendor. For other companies that have this policy, I don't and won't even buy from them.Perfect example: http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_29_58&products_id=400That's BS. That barrel isn't part of a controlled item until I make it into a rifle, without a tax stamp. I can buy that, legally, and have it shipped straight to my house, and build a completely legal AR pistol out of it. I don't need a Class 3 Dealer to do that, not do I need any kind of ATF approval. Companies that do that just suck. I don't like that YHM does it, and I keep supporting them anyway - it's a personal-confusion kinda thing... :o <dontknow> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I was under the impression just having the parts in the same "area" could be looked at as "intent" to assemble....be carefulThat's a myth and a rumor, and it keeps on going. I don't want this thread to turn into a "what's legal?" thread here. However, there is no such thing as "constructive intent," as it's commonly called and talked about. It's all on print on the BATFE website, it just takes some reading and looking to find info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thanks for clearing that up brother Tom,the fact that the boss at PSA heard me and even changed the computer so others know there are options.It's stupid to have to hack off and redo something you know you don't want from the startOther vender's didn't want to sell me a 14.5 cause they said it could be a SBR,don't tell me what to do with the product or impose your morality on me.+1 for PSA and there customer satisfaction.And thank you brother Tom for your recommendation <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Other vender's didn't want to sell me a 14.5 cause they said it could be a SBR,..."Could be" doesn't mean IT IS. That's why I don't like that policy. It could be growing into a pistol, too - which is perfectly legal. It's the consumer's responsiblity to do the right thing with possible NFA items.Example, from Bravo Company - this is the right way to do it, as a vendor:"Noveske N4 Light Carbine Basic Upper Receiver Group 10.5" NFA Barrel (all NFA Rules apply)"http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Noveske-N4-Light-Carbine-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/n4%20basic%2010%20urg.htmAnyone with a credit card can order that and have it sent straight to their house, and doorstep. What you do with it when it gets there is your responsibility - the company told you is was an NFA item, now you need to educate yourself on how and what you can build it up as, or attach it to - that's on the individual. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Those are not rumors , just have a M16 selector , M 16 disconnector & an AR 15 receiver in the same place when the BATFE is in your house & you will see how the rumors turn out . An SBR is no different in the eye's of the BATFE. Both Title II weapons.I am also not trying make a legal thing of this , just common sense. Send your muzzle device to them & have it attached before they send it to you .I was a class one & three FFL dealer for almost twenty years & in today's environment , I would be even more careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thank you for your concern brother survivalshop,I'm good with what I have to do. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Those are not rumors , just have a M16 selector , M 16 disconnector & an AR 15 receiver in the same place when the BATFE is in your house & you will see how the rumors turn out . Again, not true - you have to have more than a selector and disconnector to make it run FA. Those parts do not equal "machine gun." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Speaking of PSA. I just used them for the first time. Bought 500 rounds of 45 acp Federal American Eagle. Man that was a heavy little box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Quote from 1986 amendment for gun control act of 1968 and national firearms act."The definition of a machinegun includes any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and any part designed and intended solely for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun. "The term " any part " kinda stands out .I'm sure & I will look it up , but having a complete SBR upper( and a AR 15 lower around it & no tax stamp ) would probably read about the same .I'm not trying to scare any one , just trying to help keep the uninformed out of trouble . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Quote from 1986 amendment for gun control act of 1968 and national firearms act.The term " any part " kinda stands out .I'm sure & I will look it up , but having a complete SBR upper( and a AR 15 lower around it & no tax stamp ) would probably read about the same .I'm not trying to scare any one , just trying to help keep the uninformed out of trouble .That example - it's not an SBR upper, it's just an upper that's not wearing a 16" barrel. Just a shorter barrel. Is that an SBR upper, or is that a pistol upper? You can now have one lower, a +16" upper, and a less-than-16" upper, all together. ATF Ruling 2011-4 stated that. http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdfhttp://308ar.com/forum/firearm-industry-news-and-gossip/atf-ruling-2011-4-concerning-ar-pistols-and-rifles/http://308ar.com/forum/firearm-industry-news-and-gossip/atf-ruling-2011-4-concerning-ar-pistols-and-rifles/As soon as they permitted the individual to build a pistol (first action), and allowed you to turn in into a rifle (that part is not new), and then revert that firearm back to a pistol (this is new). As long as it was a pistol build first, it can go to rifle configuration, and back to a pistol again. Back and forth.A person can accomplish that with one built lower, two uppers, but with two receiver extension options. Buttstock and pistol config. Perfectly legal. What would they say if you have the lower assembled with the buttstock, and both uppers loose in the safe? Don't know. Legally, can you do that? Yes, per their ruling. Better have that pistol receiver extension close by, too, though.A short upper is not an SBR. It's just an upper with a barrel less than 16". Putting it onto a rifle-config lower, without a stamp - that's the crime. Not assembling it onto a rifle-config lower, is the key. Only put it on a pistol lower if you don't have the SBR tax stamp.With my pistol build, I locked it up with all the other rifles. Not worried at all about storing it that way. It stayed together as a pistol. I even had a spare upper for it. I kept them together - complete pistol with spare pistol upper. Those weren't SBRs, not in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've got to agree with 98 on this , I was told that by having two ar pistols I could have a SBR upper and NOT have a tax stamp. "If I installed it on a rifle lower I would be committing a crime."Det. Friendly Chandler PD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 That is very cool brother Mike,I like that. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinsterurge Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I've got to agree with 98 on this , I was told that by having two ar pistols I could have a SBR upper and NOT have a tax stamp. "If I installed it on a rifle lower I would be committing a crime."Det. Friendly Chandler PD.Nice Evo <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 not an Evo ,its a GSX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinsterurge Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 ::) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 So , the key would be , if you have to have a complete pistol lower around . What if you don't & have just a rifle lower around ? I can tell you with out a doubt , that ,have the SBR upper( with out a stamp ) & a AR 15 ( rifle ) lower in the same area, , they will not care if they are assembled , they will treat it as a complete rifle . Now if you have a pistol lower , that may be different . Do not make the misstake, that you think because they are separate , it doesn't count as a complete rifle .All this means nothing , if you don't get caught , of course . Just be careful .I have dealt with the BATF , now BATFE & I can tell you first hand , if they come in looking for some thing ,they will find some thing .People say , how will they know , well , you guys/gal's in LE know , it doesn't take much to start the ball rolling . Neighbor calling about suspicious activity or a pissed off girl friend , etc , you get the idea, I have seen a lot of this & have been a technical witness for lawyers for there clients & poop can & does happen . If you follow the letter of law as to the best of your knowledge , you can keep the chances of any thing happening to you legally at a minmum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 You have to give them a reason to come in looking for something - you have to do something stupid. They don't just raid random houses, looking for poop. They're WAY too busy with other things like Gun Walker.To have a pistol upper around, with only rifle lowers - you're doing something stupid. To have a barrel around, less than 16"?! Who gives a poop? The ATF doesn't. So, pistol upper, and only rifle lowers. You're setting your own self up, and you deserve what you get. That's part of the responsibility of owning NFA items. My short barrels, by themselves, are potentially NFA items - but as barrels, that's all they are, if they're 1" long, or 15.99" long. Doesn't matter.Tell me if you see anything "illegal" in this pic below:How about something "illegal" in this one:There is nothing illegal in those pics - and those are my personal guns. "Constructive Intent" is a myth. It's not real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 If my mom says yea,can I come over to play? :) Spoke to Joe Weir PSA head gun guy,told him I wanted an upper I can shoot the hell out of he suggested the hammer forged.Mentioned the loose flash hider he said their was a option for that,I told him I was the guy that started it with my suggestion .He laughed 14.7 flying off the shelves now people don't have to hack off or keep something they didn't exactly want.Josh at battle comp,and people at brownells very nice and helpful.Told all of them I was a member of .308AR.com and its was members that recommend the products I chose.I am happier than a pig in poop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Tell me if you see anything "illegal" in this pic below:Yeah ! That guy wearing those pants outside of his house. Better watch out for the fashion police ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think those are the same ones that are torn off for the video " I'm sexy and I know it" :o....still can't get that damn thing out of my head.Thanks brother Tom <lmao> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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