Thought experiment: If WW II happened again

[MaDuce]

Here's an interesting thought experiment for you.

It gives me utmost joy to see Mercedes and Mitsubishi selling us nice cars in stead of building the machines that kill us. It's nice to see France and Germany working together and it's great to see our cultures coming together and helping one and other.

I am happy to say that another round of WW II with Japan, Germany and Italy is highly unlikely to ever happen in our lifetimes.

But just for the sake of experiment, imagine for a moment that next year, some crazy mad man were to rise to power in Germany and Japan started secretly conspiring with him and building a nuclear Armada. Then in 5 years, Germany declared war on a bunch of European nations and Japan were to attack us and a duplicate of WW II ensued.

The great question is, would Germany, Japan and Italy still be as potent against the rest of the world as they were in WW II. Also, with America's trade with these nations severed as well as any nations intimidated in to cutting ties with the US, would the USA still be as effective as we were in WW II.

Of course, in answering, we should address the following questions, among others:

* Which countries are likely to sever ties with which countries, should such a war break out. For instance, would China sever ties with the USA? Would they commit to the Axis? Would they do the opposite?

*Who's side would Russia take?

* Would Germany and Japan still have the resources to build and support their arsenal after severing trade with whoever they do?

* Would Germany and Japan have the man power to be as effective.

* What about training. This isn't the USA VS 3rd world thugs. We're talking about skilled professional soldiers slugging it out with one and other. How does the training and formitability of the different troops compare?

* Weapons. Who has the most potent weapons in what ways? How well do the troops use them. Same with armor.

* Which resources are most at risk and who has the best chance of destroying the other guys. For instance, bombing factories, who has the best chance (remember, today's missile and aviation technology makes us more vulnerable to over seas attack then in WW II)

* Which nations are most likely to rise up against their government? Would Germany still be able to control it's people? Would WE still be as committed as we were in WW II? Would Italy do the same thing they did in WW II?

My personal take, just from a general overview is that Germany has a greater chance of having it's dictator overthrown by the German people and that Japan would be every bit as potent at first but would be much quicker to surrender and get back to pre-war economic conditions then before.

But beyond that, I think it would be pretty much a repeat. I think both Germany and Japan are every bit as capable of being as formidable as they were in WW II but I think that just like in WW II, the USA, once attacked, will surprise the world at how quick and furiously we'll respond and adapt to the war conditions.

Now I'd like to hear your takes on this.

[NoFail]

Nuclear weapons. War over in 1 hour. All human life over in a matter of weeks, months. Nuff said..... 

A war with a nut job with lots of nukes will not end well. So none of that other stuff really matters. 

[Slash]

I do not believe that this nation would survive another world war. We do not have the stomach. This has become a country filled with liberals and pansies. Our leaders are greedy power hungry self-serving miscreants.

[LocoGringo]

U.S. government regulations, political correctness, and a "kinder, gentler" society would not have the stomach to do what is necessary to win.  The military, in general, would be willing and able, but the "leaders" (including ruling military ranks) would be weak. 

Consider this...we WERE attacked (remember 9/11?) and it took us 10 years to get the guy responsible, and we are in a war (2 actually) for that long as well.  Don't forget that we are going up against 3rd world countries (Iraq and Afghanistan)...what would powerful countries do to us? 

Please don't misunderstand my statements to mean that I'm down on the U.S.  I LOVE my country, but our government is AMAZINGLY weak and there is no real leadership and there are no more patriots in our government.  They are self-serving, power hungry morons that only THINK they know better than the electorate.  War is just a game to them to be used for political power grabbing.  It would take a full invasion of our shores to wake us from our slumber for true action to take place. 

Factor in the possibility of nukes under a leader who doesn't care about human life, and this is all just foolish academic debate.

[Matt.Cross]

Factor in the possibility of nukes under a leader who doesn't care about human life, and this is all just foolish academic debate.

I call it "Food for thought". I don't really see anything foolish about trying to have foresight.

[unforgiven]

I belive the MAJORITY of battles fought today are still U.S.A. against the various enemies of the world,pawns controled by others.Release the drones kill'um all. >:D :auto:

[BLKSHEEP]

Here's an interesting thought experiment for you.

It gives me utmost joy to see Mercedes and Mitsubishi selling us nice cars in stead of building the machines that kill us. It's nice to see France and Germany working together and it's great to see our cultures coming together and helping one and other.

I am happy to say that another round of WW II with Japan, Germany and Italy is highly unlikely to ever happen in our lifetimes.

But just for the sake of experiment, imagine for a moment that next year, some crazy mad man were to rise to power in Germany and Japan started secretly conspiring with him and building a nuclear Armada. Then in 5 years, Germany declared war on a bunch of European nations and Japan were to attack us and a duplicate of WW II ensued.

The great question is, would Germany, Japan and Italy still be as potent against the rest of the world as they were in WW II. Also, with America's trade with these nations severed as well as any nations intimidated in to cutting ties with the US, would the USA still be as effective as we were in WW II. We would be far more effective now.

Of course, in answering, we should address the following questions, among others:

* Which countries are likely to sever ties with which countries, should such a war break out. For instance, would China sever ties with the USA? Would they commit to the Axis? Would they do the opposite? Impossible to know?

*Who's side would Russia take? ours

* Would Germany and Japan still have the resources to build and support their arsenal after severing trade with whoever they do? NO

* Would Germany and Japan have the man power to be as effective. NO

* What about training. This isn't the USA VS 3rd world thugs. We're talking about skilled professional soldiers slugging it out with one and other. How does the training and formitability of the different troops compare? I'm sure Germany & Japan have well trained troops, are they as good as ours? nope

* Weapons. Who has the most potent weapons in what ways? How well do the troops use them. Same with armor. Do you remember the tank battles of Desert Storm against their Russian tanks? We slaughtered them,yes the German tanks are better but not in the same class and they have far fewer of them.

* Which resources are most at risk and who has the best chance of destroying the other guys. For instance, bombing factories, who has the best chance (remember, today's missile and aviation technology makes us more vulnerable to over seas attack then in WW II) I'm guessing at this but I believe our defence dept. tracks every ship & most subs,missle launch pads,etc..from every unfriendly  nation in the world,a suprise attack of a large scale would be extremely unlikely. Does any other countries have stealth bombers or cruise missiles? No! we would rain destruction on them.

* Which nations are most likely to rise up against their government? Would Germany still be able to control it's people? Would WE still be as committed as we were in WW II? Would Italy do the same thing they did in WW II? If bombs started falling on American soil Americans would stand up.

My personal take, just from a general overview is that Germany has a greater chance of having it's dictator overthrown by the German people and that Japan would be every bit as potent at first but would be much quicker to surrender and get back to pre-war economic conditions then before.

But beyond that, I think it would be pretty much a repeat. I think both Germany and Japan are every bit as capable of being as formidable as they were in WW II but I think that just like in WW II, the USA, once attacked, will surprise the world at how quick and furiously we'll respond and adapt to the war conditions.

Now I'd like to hear your takes on this. At the begaining of WWII Germany & Japan were the most powerful countries in the world,we had the infrastructure but our military was lacking.Today we are the only super power. Our military has not fought a war without hand cuffs since WWII,if we were to go to all out "conventional" war today with Germany,Italy & Japan ...hell you can throw France in there to <lmao>  just our Navy alone would beat the shite out of them! Also don't forget that we have X weapons that we the public will not know about for decades,maybe never. It isn't the same as it was on 12/07/1941 we out spend those countries by 10x on our military machine now and I hope it stays that way...a good defence is the best offence! <thumbsup> Now if we keep voting socialist into office things will not be so bright in the future! :rant2:

[BLKSHEEP]

I call it "Food for thought". I don't really see anything foolish about trying to have foresight. +1

[BLKSHEEP]

Nuclear weapons. War over in 1 hour. All human life over in a matter of weeks, months. Nuff said..... 

A war with a nut job with lots of nukes will not end well. So none of that other stuff really matters.

Did you see on the news about 1yr ago when one of our navy ships shot a missile into space and destroyed a satellite in low orbit?  Things that make you go HMMM <thumbsup>

[NoFail]

Did you see on the news about 1yr ago when one of our navy ships shot a missile into space and destroyed a satellite in low orbit?  Things that make you go HMMM <thumbsup>

Yeah, maybe only a few would get through like 5 - 10  <munch>

[LocoGringo]

I didn't intend to be so harsh, but I read a book in college once (maybe the only book I actually read, damn shame).  Don't remember the title, but the author was a guy called Harry Turtledove.  The idea of the book was something along the lines of "how might things be different if the South had had AK-47s", and then he writes a novel around the idea of the South having AK's.  I think this type of book is called something like "fictional history".  It was a pleasant read and fun to imagine, but in the end, nothing was accomplished. 

[Rojodiablo]

Pretty simple: Germany has no major military, nor does Japan. We have more military in Germany than they do........ We have way more military in Japan than they do. Now, on to specifics for each force:

Navy: In WWII, 80% of all ships sunk by subs were cannons, and not torpedoes. Torpedoes were not accurate nor reliable in 1942. Today??  Navy would have a 100% kill rate. Navy air power- Pretty simple. We go up, they go DOWN. Air Force: Some fighter sorties, likely they would spend their days shooting down escaping miscreants and politicians. A fistful of B1 Lancers and a barrel full of B52's later, there is no more power, water, rail service, and all large scale communications are extinct. Some Warthogs will come in and remove problem tanks and SAM installations. Army: Limited role; why send them to occupy the place?? Screw that. Army vs Army, we outnumber them all, and BOTH countries have no 2nd amendment, so private weapons and militia resistance will be limited until arms get smuggled in. By then, it will be OVER. Marines: The Marines will establish beach fronts, secure air fields, and put forth a display of dominance that will quickly weaken resolve of unarmed masses.

Someone asked about China???!!! :o

[Rojodiablo]

:o China and Russia: LEt's see......Russia and China will join forces. They WILL seize control of Iran, Libya, and several other key oil ports. Chinese will start an electronic warfare program that will screw us up horribly, and beyond comprehension- GPS??? Scrambled and distorted. Drones will fly into windows like birds, planes will be hopelessly lost for periods of time. Banking in the US will be a mess. Water systems, power grid vulnerability will leave us staggering under the strain of NOTHING working right. Remember Vietnam?? B 52 bombers vs SAM. Let's see how well they do against the best tech China has pirated from us and improved. China, Russia, and Iran have underwater missiles- not torpedoes. 230MPH underwater means....... USS Stennis will stay far, far out to sea. Subs will be shot at (Yes, the Chinese can track our subs.) Naval warfare will be changed drastically; we will not sail unopposed, and losses would be staggering- 5,000 per big ship lost. Air power: Lets see; we will have the F35 Joke Strike fighter, grounded, or under testing and not combat ready. Not to mention, the Chinese cloned it and their version flew BEFORE ours did time-wise. Between Russian and Chinese tech, it is likely their version will have less bugs than ours. And, their tech might actually render weapons systems inoperable. No one knows...... Homeland: There IS no invading China. Just too many foot soldiers to tangle with on the ground. The good news is, all those weapons everyone swears are not out in space will likely come raining down on each other. Total crapshoot as to who fares better.

Russia: Supply Chinese with fuel and munitions, and tech specialists. Russia will likely push sub warfare to all corners of the oceans. Again, crapshoot who does better. There IS no invading Russia. Winters are impossible for all but Russians, Chinese and N. Koreans. (Minnesota, North Dakota and Wisconsin can not take on Russia in winter...... Soooo, no invasion.) ::) Russia is certain to do one thing, mark my words. If the big one gets going.... the FIRST place Russia will nuke will be Afghanistan. They have a score to settle, and we, the US are not going to tell them "No, leave those peaceful good people alone." <laughs> We now know better...... But hey, we might send them some cigars to celebrate.

THIS is the next World War. China, Russia, Pakistan, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, N. Korea, Cuba, and a few others. And, USA, Britain, France, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, S. Korea and a few others. Many will be up for grabs, and therefor will work to stay neutral: Indonesia, Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and a slew of others. (They will work to stay neutral because THEY are the oil countries, and THEY know darn well they will be captured and claimed by SOMEONE. Who??? That is the real question.

The next WW is gonna be a real bicch....... <dontknow>

[BLKSHEEP]

Interesting article I found....

http://www.netgunsmith.com/2012/02/invading-america-not-likely/