buying a complete upper or new rifle?

[Spaniky73]

I am looking at getting a CQB style rifle but HATE the 5.56. I have used it and seen how ineffective it really is. I am looking at either going to a 7.62x39 or getting a 16" upper for my rifle. How do those of you who have the 16" like it in a rapid fire role with it being a DI rifle?

[washguy]

I am looking at getting a CQB style rifle but HATE the 5.56. I have used it and seen how ineffective it really is. I am looking at either going to a 7.62x39 or getting a 16" upper for my rifle. How do those of you who have the 16" like it in a rapid fire role with it being a DI rifle?

Hi Spanky  ive got 2 16" 308's....but you have the ar15 platform right? so 308 wont work on it.  wait a min you do have a ar308?....still doesnt make for cqb though....ive got several 762x39 russian on ar15 platforms and they are okay....what you should look into is the 6.8 upper for your ar15...now you got something....heavy grain bullets going at a blistering speed....its what our troops should have.....only thing is 6.8 is a bout a buck a throw... ;) Wash

[Spaniky73]

I do not own a 5.56, nor will I ever own one (I guess you missed my signature). I have used one in overseas. I just want to know how bad the fouling, heat (DI) and recoil affect the rifle in the 16". I currently have a 20" that I have built for long range. A 7.62x39 will run me as much as a new LAR 8 upper. I have yet to have fired a 16" 308 so I am looking for the pros and cons of it.

[washguy]

I do not own a 5.56, nor will I ever own one (I guess you missed my signature). I have used one in overseas. I just want to know how bad the fouling, heat (DI) and recoil affect the rifle in the 16". I currently have a 20" that I have built for long range. A 7.62x39 will run me as much as a new LAR 8 upper. I have yet to have fired a 16" 308 so I am looking for the pros and cons of it.

OOOOOPS      So okay, ive got an 18" and two 16" 308's

we shoot steel up to 500 with all three and they all shoot sub moa  I dont shoot crap ammo and never ever steel in my  308ar's

so ive never had fouling problems at all...none what so ever.....as for recoil we use good comps/brakes on em and im sure if my 125lb Gal can handle these you would have no recoil problems either  :D  Wash

[Jgun]

You said buy, not build, so I can't comment on the RRA 16" specifically, but I built a .308 carbine using a MATEN receiver set, and a Noveske 14.5" barrel(and fixed muzzle brake). As Wash stated, I don't think you will find much to complain about due to the shorter barrel, other than giving up a little muzzle velocity, but if it's for CQB that shouldn't be an issue. I do find that I'm a little slower on my follow up shots with the .308 compared to a 5.56, but thats to be expected with the greater recoil of the larger rd. I would say that an effective muzzle device is a good idea, and unless you expect to be carrying it for hours at a time, don't try to build the lightest .308 AR you can. I find that a little heavier gun helps me to be more accurate when engaging multiple targets quickly while on the move.

[Robocop1051]

I don't understand the aversion to the 5.56 round. There's a reason every NATO country uses it. A lot more of "them" have been killed by the 5.56 than we have been killed by the 7.62x39.

Back to your original question:

I know one guy in here swears his 14.5" PWS .308 is a serious kick in the pants kind of fun. My personal .308AR is a 17" rifle with a BABC compensator. I'll have pictures up of it soon.

If you just want a gun for cheap ammo. Look into the Armalite or Colt (in 7.62x39). I built one from scratch and it was a huge PITA to make 100% reliable. Still gotta be careful with the corrosive ammo. Especially if you put a fancy muzzle device on. I use a PWS FSC30, and it collects a lot of corrosive carbon.

If you want a reliable cartridge, without killing your wallet on 6.8 ammo.... 300 AAC Blackout (7.62x35)!!! All the power of the 30 cal, in a reliable format. I was buying Remington 115gr FMJ for $11 per box (20). I shoot it out of a 14.5" carbine with a BABC.

[washguy]

I do not own a 5.56, nor will I ever own one (I guess you missed my signature). I have used one in overseas. I just want to know how bad the fouling, heat (DI) and recoil affect the rifle in the 16". I currently have a 20" that I have built for long range. A 7.62x39 will run me as much as a new LAR 8 upper. I have yet to have fired a 16" 308 so I am looking for the pros and cons of it.

Hi Spaniky    So this is what you want to do buy a 16" upper like this?  and switch around with your lower?

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=104562

Wash

[washguy]

Hi Spaniky    So this is what you want to do buy a 16" upper like this?  and switch around with your lower?

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=104562

Wash

Even better,,,heres the whole rifle  and good folks to buy from

http://2afirearmsdealer.com/rra-lar8-mid-a4-308-16in-20rd.html

[planeflyer21]

I'm very happy with my 16"-er Elite Operator.  My preconceived notions have all proven wrong and I sometimes wonder why anyone would want a longer one.

"I don't understand the aversion to the 5.56 round. There's a reason every NATO country uses it. A lot more of "them" have been killed by the 5.56 than we have been killed by the 7.62x39."

There's a reason all the NATO countries are re-equipping troops with 7.62x51 rifles also.  <thumbsup>

In reality it wouldn't matter if we equipped our troops with .22LRs or .45-70s...we'd still kill a lot more of those naked-hand-ass-wiping cornholios than they would kill of us.

Jon

[Spaniky73]

The 5.56 was built as a replacement for the 30 carbine (7.62 X 33 (supped up pistol round)). The 5.56 is more likely to kill do to it's ballistic coefficient but lacks the kinetic energy to stop person or keep them from firing back. Where as the 7.62x39 and the 7.62 NATO are less likely to kill (repairable damage) they impart 2 to 3 times the energy (knock down power).

I am looking at getting a sig 556R or a LAR 47 or an US made AK. An complete upper will cost me 3/4 of those if not more. I am looking for opinions on the practicality of an upper vs a complete rifle.

[washguy]

The 5.56 was built as a replacement for the 30 carbine (7.62 X 33 (supped up pistol round)). The 5.56 is more likely to kill do to it's ballistic coefficient but lacks the kinetic energy to stop person or keep them from firing back. Where as the 7.62x39 and the 7.62 NATO are less likely to kill (repairable damage) they impart 2 to 3 times the energy (knock down power).

I am looking at getting a sig 556R or a LAR 47 or an US made AK. An complete upper will cost me 3/4 of those if not more. I am looking for opinions on the practicality of an upper vs a complete rifle.

Spaniky...I have never bought an upper of a different caliber /same caliber to go my existing lower...because you by doing this... is that you dont have two rifles...just one rifle and a small pipe club :)

Buy a complete rifle...so you have two weapons...not one weapon and a club......really now ...if got a an upper only...it wouldnt be 30 days till you couldnt stand lookin at that upper and getting the rest of it....but thats just me....all my rifles are complete....and ready to use.... :)  Wash

[unforgiven]

I think one of the advantages of buying upper/lower seperately is the 11% tax on a complete rifle.Although the price on the LAR-8 complete as apposed to just the upper that brother Jeff had as a link was not bad. <dontknow>

[Spaniky73]

I guess I am not being clear. If I buy an upper it will be a 16" 308. If I buy a complete rifle it will be an 7.62x39.

[unforgiven]

Gotcha <thumbsup> I'm sure you know RRA has a 7.62X39 looks cool.

[Jgun]

Although I'd opt for another AR platform gun over the AK, given your parameters, I'd also vote for a complete AK vs another AR upper. You might want to also consider the other costs associated with buying a second gun of a different platform, vs buying a second AR (or better yet building it) in a caliber that you already have. Think about it, same mags, all the spare parts will interchange  aside frome barrel/handguard, only one caliber to stockpile, if you reload, you don't need to buy different dies/powder/bullets, the ergonomics don't change, so you're likely to be able to shoot better under stress, as opposed to having to practice your drills with two different rifles. Might be worth thinking about.

[Spaniky73]

Thank you all for your input. Now I have a lot to checkout.

[Spaniky73]

One more question. Other than going through RRA is there another place to get an upper at a good price ?

[planeflyer21]

After pricing as many places as possible, I then go to Gunbroker and see if anyone has what I'm seeking at a good price.

Got both of my RRAs from people in-stock NIB, at prices lower than everyone else was selling production slots for a wait list.

The uppers appear to be no different.

Jon

[unforgiven]

Legal transfers,Pete the ar wizard beat everyones price for the LAR-8 that came with all the extras.The guy is or was chief L.E.O. in N.H..Knowledgeable and won't just sell just to sell.

[Spaniky73]

None on gunbroker or gunsamerica. Any other places you guys would suggest? How do I contact this AR Wizard?

[98Z5V]

None on gunbroker or gunsamerica. Any other places you guys would suggest? How do I contact this AR Wizard?

My search didn't take long, and this is what I came up with:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Pete+the+ar+wizard

Might be something to check into.  <thumbsup>

[unforgiven]

http://www.ar15sales.com/ordering.htm  here you go brother,he's a good guy to deal with.As with the link brother Tom provided seemed like positive feedback from others.I got my LAR-8 from him. <thumbsup>

[Spaniky73]

I spoke with Pete. He said it will take him around 8-12 weeks to get the upper to me which is better than 12-16 that most other retailers are giving me and at the best price with shipping. I am going to order it tomorrow. Thanks to everyone that gave input.