Battle Arms Dev Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 The second generation of our short throw selector has these changes:1. Throw arc changed from 45 degree to 50 degree to address a known issue with Wilson TTU triggers2. Center section (where the flat is) diameter decreased to accommodate triggers with tall rear tang, and some NB coated triggersCan you guys tell which is which? ;) The 5 degree increase in throw is almost imperceptible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 45 - top; 50 - below.Roger, it impresses me to no end that you'll modify your product, in order to have a working unit for systems out there that are not like others. Could be out of spec issues, design issues (not following standard designs), anything - you strive to make a product perfect for everybody, and some are doing things different. It's very impressive that you go to the steps that you do. You're one hell of a great person, and I'm fortunate to know you. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 all of what Tom said, plus he's going to place an order eventually I hear….. <munch>Thanks Roger, have a Merry Christmas with your new wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Merry Christmas Rodger to you and family.You got great products <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 This is great... Let us know if there are any lonely homeless 45 degree centers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 This solves the SR Gold fit issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 This solves the SR Gold fit issue?I didn't have an SR Gold fit issue in the .308 AR - BAD ASS and trigger work as designed, in a factory DPMS lower receiver. Are the issues in different receivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Arms Dev Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Thank you guys for your kind words! I'm humbled by the praises, to me, we're doing what we as a manufacturer and developer should do.There was a little debate about whether to go to 50 degree to fix a problem that affected a tiny segment of the market. The question came to to this, can we say we've done the best we can, if we don't fix a known problem that some companies would deem acceptable to ignore?We need to be honest with ourselves. Leaving this issue unresolved was an option, but a better option would be to fix it.The discussion to go to a 50 degree took place when we found out about the TTU compatibility issues back in 2011. The main driving force was actually not the TTU problems, but something else.The tiny amount of play / wobble when the detent is engaged in the detent holes is about 5 degrees or so. This is unavoidable, for the detent holes must be bigger than the detent, or the detent can't seat inside the holes. With a 90 degree selector, a little play isn't a big deal, but with a 45 degree, 10 degree of movement inside a 45 degree arc can be confusing. And so this was the first reason to go to a 50 degree arch, so the 5 degree or so movement in SAFE and FIRE position is less pronounced.The reduction of the center's flat area diameter from 0.330 to 0.327 is to further address after market trigger compatibility issues. In the original design, the diameter was even greater, as that was the milspec. Milspec doesn't take into account the vast array of aftermarket triggers available, and to the user's detriment, some of them vary a great deal from factory specs. Over the years we gradually brought down the diameter, now it's 0.327. This should address the AR Gold trigger's problem. But to be fair, not all AR Gold, and for that matter, not all TTUs experience the kind of issues the latest revisions aim to fix, I can only attribute this random occurrences with these triggers to variables such as receivers dimensions, and the variances within the triggers themselves.We can't compel anyone to make their products more compatible with out of spec components, so we do what we can with ours. This was first started with Geissele Automatics. In a phone conversation with Bill back in 2010, I asked him why some DMR users had to modify their selectors to work with the DMR. The short answer is they wouldn't need to do that if their receivers were in spec, but to make a selector more tolerant of out of spec receivers, he gave us the value of the center flat width he'd like to see. In PIP1 (product improvement program) we increased the width of the center flat section as much as possible based on that advise. To this date, every one of the selectors made since August of 2010 had that feature built in, whether a user is aware of it or not. If you ever wonder why DMR users never mention having to modify our selectors to work, well, now you know ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Working with the end user,priceless. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Arms Dev Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 We're answerable to our customers, not to investors and board members (don't have any). Sometimes we don't start a new project because there may not be enough market to support the R&D cost, but by not doing it to begin with, we never left the customer holding the bag.Once the product is in the market, we owe it to the end users to support it and refine it the best we can, this is the reason for multiple refinement programs of the selector, every one of the previous versions leads to the one we have today which incorporates the feedback and real world use experience in the last couple of years.To be clear, we don't use our customers as beta testers. A control device that sees as much use, if not more use, than the trigger, it's subject to various user preferences and opinions. We take in every comment and feedback given us, and arrive at something that almost everyone can be happy with. There are some suggestions we can't implement, such as reversing the SAFE and FIRE position like the original AR, where SAFE is at 12 o'clock, and SEMI is at 9 o'clock (looking at the receiver from its left side). And there was the suggestion to create a lever that's somewhere between the short and standard lever length. The difference between a mid-length lever that's shorter than standard, but longer than short, didn't make a lot of sense to us, but it will muddy up the lever choices, while offering debatable benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 That is why you will succeed and others will fail. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Arms Dev Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Thank you, I just hope whatever ban they're trying to pass won't affect the industry :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 To this date, every one of the selectors made since August of 2010 had that feature built in, whether a user is aware of it or not. poop. My "May of 2010" selector is out of spec... <laughs> <lmao>I'll be calling to complain, and order about 10 more lever sets. <dontknow> <thumbsup>I'll take all the 45-degree centers you have in inventory, just so others don't have issues. I know you've been getting messages about those things, but if they're coming from guys on this board - those fellas are "suspect... " :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 <lmao> <laughs> :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Arms Dev Posted December 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 lol ;DWe had been out of the 45 degree BAD-ASS-STs for months, I'm not sure if dealers have any left either since they've been out of stock for so long. You should get the 50 degree selectors, they don't have issues with TTUs, and should fix the AR Gold ones as well :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I'll call you in the next couple days, Roger - lots to talk about. ;DI may need quite a few selector sets... WAY bigger than some of my past orders, and some of those were pretty sizeable... :o <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Arms Dev Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Awesome ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hey Tom I spoke with Roger and he is willing to accept direct deposit directly from your pay. Streamline the cash flow. <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 The sad thing about that is - I am willing to send in the forms, and have the pay deducted, directly... :o <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Arms Dev Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Haha :cookoo: :D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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