Annealing

[survivalshop]

I have talked my self into Annealing my rifle brass ( satisfied 98  <thumbsup> ) If your doing it , what are you using ? 

[sketch]

Are you choping some 300 out of 223 or just after a trim ? New or used brass?

I have not done any but like you am curious at this point. YouTube has a few vids mostly a small torch for a few seconds?

[shibiwan]

I have a block of aluminum with 1/2" blind holes drilled in it. Stick my 308 (or whatever) cases in it and blast the necks with a propane torch, let it stand and cool.

Edited April 26, 2014 by shibiwan

[98Z5V]

I've really, really been thinking of picking up a machine for this, primarily for 300 brass.  Right now, I'm only converting once-fired NATO brass, which is annealed very well.  Still some annealing on it once it's cut down.  I just hate cutting out the primer crimp on them. 

 

Someone posted up an automated machine that worked incredibly well - I looked that thing up and it was decently expensive, but looked worth it. 

 

Very good article on the process:

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[shibiwan]

I was thinking of making my own carousel type annealing machine too, but using an induction heater instead of propane. I could probably make two if you want one, Tom.

[98Z5V]

 I could probably make two if you want one, Tom.

I

 

AM

 

IN!!!

 

Let me know when you're working on it - I can break away on Thursdays, and visit for a bit.  Do manual labor.  Take out trash, sweep the shop...  <lmao>

[shibiwan]

hmmm got me thinking... what if I made a few :D  I'll do cost of materials plus machine time. :D

 

My initial estimate is about $250-$300.

[survivalshop]

  I looked at the Grizzly annealing machine , but damn near had the big one with sticker shock , but its the best one I have looked at. There's another video I watched where a guy made a rotary case fixture with a variable speed drill & the Hornady annealing kit that has the fixtures & temperature indicating product, he has the drill set up on a hing to flip the case into a bucket of water to cool them off. He had a thumb screw or something to control the speed of the drill.

  He used the temp. indicator to time the annealing time for a couple of cases , to get an average & used that time to do the rest. I have two projects going on right now & nothing having to do with firearms or reloading , but when done, I will make a system up to do this .

 

 I will anneal 300BLK , but mostly its for any rifle brass that has had a couple of reloadings . Right now my test brass for 175 gr. 308's is one its fourth reloading , so next time I will want to do something before reloading again or switch out to new , once fired brass. 

 As far as the 300 BLK , the once fired Military brass has been annealed already & shouldn't need it to form them , but how far down the case past the shoulder may be an issue & annealing them may be needed any way .

[seasprite]

I've been using a drill, torch and deep well socket to anneal my brass.

[98Z5V]

 As far as the 300 BLK , the once fired Military brass has been annealed already & shouldn't need it to form them , but how far down the case past the shoulder may be an issue & annealing them may be needed any way .

 

That's exactly why I've only been using the once fired NATO brass to convert cases.  <thumbsup>

 

Some are on their 4th reloading, and still looking good.  Not that "looking good" is the indication that they're not work hardening, but...  <lmao> 

 

No splits in the case mouths yet.

[texas30cal]

I have been wanting one of Ken Light's machines for quite some time, have read his page several times, it's got some very good information. I missed one of his annealers on ebay a while back for a buy it now of $300 with 4 wheels and 2 torch heads and been kicking myself in the ass ever since. I have been using my 6'x18' lathe and a propane torch with the lights turned off in my shop so I can see the color better, once I figure out how many seconds it takes to get it just far enough down the case then I just start the lathe put the flame to it and count it out, loosen the chuck, hot case drops into a pan to cool and put in another, I have had very good results as far as case life goes I cant remember the last time I found a split neck but it's not nearly as fast as his machine and I am sure not as consistent.

[survivalshop]

If I see a slightly split case , the whole batch goes in the recycle box & I start with new once fired LC brass , I have been reading a lot on case neck tension & accuracy out come & also extending brass life is more of a concern now a days for me also.

 Testing these two different length barreled 308AR's is got me going places I ignored in all my years of reloading. <dontknow>

[survivalshop]

  I'm picking up a new tank for my torch , the one I have has MAP gas & a little too hot , I also need to order the Hornady starter kit , because it has the temperature indicator in it & different case holders. I have some five time ,maybe six 308 brass ready to try out , thing is , they are already sized & de-primed . I think I will resize them after trimming & annealing with my FL ,bushing die & see how the do .

 

  I noticed loading this batch of 175's that when seating the bullets , some did feel like they didn't have the same neck tension when seating the bullets . We will see if that goes away next reload on this test brass. 

 

  Its been Monsoon week so far , not sure when I can get to the range , if at all this week .

Edited May 1, 2014 by survivalshop

[N Jensen]

I wildcatted a 22-250 case into a 6OMC cartridge. Basically a 243 chamber but .250 shorter the dies were 243 dies cut off .250 at the bottom.

I had to anneal the cases before pushing the shoulder back. I used a steel rod and propane torch and bucket of water. I would spin the case with the bluest part of the flame on the shoulder of the case area until a color change in the case just below the shoulder and then dropped the case into the water.

Once I pushed the shoulder back so it would chamber, I then necked it up to 6mm. After firing, the case then looked like a short 243 with a longer neck.

Once I had the case fire formed, I had to turn the necks. I had to do this because the old shoulder was now part of the new neck. The thickness was much more than the thickness of the original neck. If I didn't, I would have extreme neck tension that would cause vertical stringing at 600 yds, and I mean into the 7 ring. I also when turning the necks I went a little into the neck/shoulder junction area as well to prevent a doughnut effect.

Annealing also relieves stress in the brass after being reworked, if not the necks will later crack after being resized.

Controlling neck tension to be uniformed from case to case is a must for accuracy. If one shell release a bullet that has high neck tension, the powder charge burns more to release the bullet and thus more pressure, high FPS and strike the higher on the target. If the next shell has less neck tension, everything is lower as well: pressure, FPS, and strikes lower on the target.

Anything you can do to make sure that bullet has the same neck tension and is released the same way will help in accuracy, bushing dies, neck turning, annealing. I find that a .001 interference for my semi auto match rifle is good enough to ensure the cartridge feeds through the mag over the feed lips and into the chamber without any problems.

My bolt action Palma rifle, the weight of the bullet press handle is enough to seat my bullets into the 308 case, very little force is needed to seat the bullet. The interference is about .0003 .

[survivalshop]

No hope finding the Hornady set up ( at least for even close to the MSR price ) So I ordered the temp stick liquid from McMaster Carr with some thinner , (just in case it hardens up ) for $ 24 & will use a socket case holder . When I get the temp stick i will do some .

[98Z5V]

Annealing also relieves stress in the brass after being reworked, if not the necks will later crack after being resized.

 

 

Very good point - This is the whole reason I've only been using Lake City 5.56 for my 300BLK conversions.  The annealing on the Lake City stuff goes pretty deep on the case, and - at least in my mind - I'm re-shouldering a part of the case (as a 300BLK) that was heavily annealed before it was shot last time, as a 5.56 round.

 

My reasoning may be off, based on making a new shoulder in the new cartridge, but I'm pretty sure I'm better off using that for the BLK conversions that using new 5.56 brass from any manufacturer, or once fired .223 Rem.  <dontknow>

[texas30cal]

The Lake City brass does seem to hold up well, I haven't annealed any yet and haven't had a split neck, I have a bunch of Federal in the 100rd. boxes from wally world that still shows the color change down past the shoulder from annealing and it has held up well also. I haven't made any 300 cases but I believe your reasoning to be correct, all brass must be annealed (probably multiple times) during manufacture but I am sure some brands more than others.

[survivalshop]

Man , I got the temperature indicator today from McMaster Carr , man was that quick . Now I have to build my Annealing station . I have some older WW brass that I used to test loads with the 20" I built many years ago , that I will do test annealing with & checked the primer pockets today , which will be a thread in its self , with photo's, later. .

 

I see some people time the procedure  & after establishing a time line on the indicator change for proper annealing temperature , they just time the procedure , for the rest . I may do it that way ,but think I will try doing them with indicator on all of them to make sure I get them all to the some same temp. . They say if you under anneal them , its as if your didn't change a thing , with over annealing , you ruin or waste the brass , so if you use the indicator , all should be with in proper annealing temp. range. 

Edited May 3, 2014 by survivalshop

[survivalshop]

I'm no longer an Annealing virgin , I did a couple today just to see what else I needed to add to the set up . Nothing bolted down , just free standing batt. operated drill ( my wife's no less , she never uses it & its like new  )and free standing torch . not bad & pretty fast in changing out the cases. Now all I have to do is make a stand to angle the torch & secure the drill .

 

 

These are FC cases & I have a bunch of WW cases to do when I get the stand put together , with some kind of adj. for different length case or calibers . As you can see, I put the temperature indicator on all the cases & completely around the cases & I'm glad I did , because I can see the indicator change to liquid as the case turns . Coild be I have the drill speed to fast or too slow or the torch flame is set  incorrectly . Will play around with both when its all set up on a stand & secured.

 

What fun !

[sketch]

That's really coming along nice work.

[shibiwan]

Nice... what kind of paint is that?

[survivalshop]

  Not paint . Its Tempilaq, Temperature Indicating liquid, this particular indicator is set for 650 deg. , it changes color then turns back into liquid & thats when you pull the brass & quench it, to cool it rapidly. Why 650 deg. , after reading about it , it seems to be when the brass is the optimum temperature to anneal it properly . Not too hot & not too cool .

  The Hornady kit , that is no longer available had there's @ 475 deg. & that , from what I have read is not the proper temperature. I plan on applying it to all cases , so I know they are at the correct temp.. Most just time the process after establishing the time it takes to change the indicator . I don't see a problem with that , but when doing different manufacturer's brass , the time may change & I could sort the brass by manufacturer & set a time for each , but I'm going to try it this way & see how long or how much indicator I use . It doesn't take much of the indicator , thats for sure , bottle looks like it will last a long time & I bought the thinner for it if it starts to dry out .

[survivalshop]

  Took almost as long to get the tools out & put them away , as it did to build my Annealing station . Works like it should . I can make adj. to the drill with spacers or hight/lower wood spacer blocks . I can make adj. to the torch the same way . It is set up to do 308 as it is . 

 I can twist the drill mgr to change batteries , the torch can just be popped out & replaced or just replace the wire ties.

 

 

  Its running on this one , on scrap brass , I can adj. the flame to get different results for time . Right now its about six seconds to change the indicator.

 

 

[98Z5V]

Awesome setup, ss!!!  I like it!

[survivalshop]

  Did 27 cases last night ,after the blow torch went out . I did 1-LC , 2 - RP , 9 FC & the rest were WW . The WW being the first cases I used many years ago to test work up loads for the 20" build . There is definitely a difference in time it took for the Indicator to change with the different brass manufacturers , the WW was the least amount of time ( if you can call it that )  8 sec. on average , the FC ,LC & RP all went into 10-12 sec. to change the Indicator. I marked all of them , just so I could see a change before I grabbed it with the tongs & threw it in the water .

  Took about ten minutes to do them all , so this is not a time consuming process as I have thought of it would be all these years . I resized them with my Redding bushing type FL sizing die ( they were already sized & de-primed with RCBS SB sizing die ) & will trim & reload them to see how my Annealing feels & see how they shoot .

Edited May 10, 2014 by survivalshop