calegalish Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I purchased a .308/7.62x51 bolt carrier group (NiBoron) from Shadow Ops Weaponry in Nov 2013. Finally got the BCG in late Jan 2014 and built the rifle but was having some cycling issues extracting consistently. After dealing with a chamber issue on a Dez arms barrel (Dwayne is great to work with), we got the rifle to the range, adjusted the gas block and sighted in. Everything was working great until I got home and started cleaning and noticed a large crack on the bolt. I have less than 100 rounds on this BCG. So just a heads up for those with this BCG to keep an eye out. I have contacted Shadow Ops and never heard anything back. From other posts, it sounds like they have closed their doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Damn buddy,...Tough break... (too soon?) Ok, joking aside, that really blows man... sounds like you've been having a hard go of it with your rifle.. Think it could be related to the chamber issue you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 holy crap. first I've seen that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 save it in a box, the prior owner is restarting and i'll see if I can get you a replacement once he's up and running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Damn buddy,...Tough break... (too soon?) Ok, joking aside, that really blows man... sounds like you've been having a hard go of it with your rifle.. Think it could be related to the chamber issue you mentioned? I would say too soon. Its not related to to the chamber issues. I thought it was at first but I sent the entire upper with buffer, tube, stock, BCG etc to Dwayne at Dez Arms. He admitted that the chamber was flawed and should not have been shipped in that condition. He polished the chamber and assembled the upper and got it all dialed in. We continued to discuss cycling issues that occur when running a 16" barrel with carbine gas system on the 308 platform. He was doing a custom run of 16" barrels with mid length gas systems so i had him make me one also. I also installed a heavy buffer to slow down the cycling. holy crap. first I've seen that save it in a box, the prior owner is restarting and i'll see if I can get you a replacement once he's up and running Will do. Thanks for letting me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Very forceful extraction will cause that crack, right there. Mortaring the rifle after stuck cases will cause it, too (not saying you did that, just saying that can cause it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Right on... I think you'll like the mid length setup. I'm running a mid-length 16" from Rainier w/ a Syrac adjustable gas block and standard DPMS buffer. It cycles like a sewing machine and spits the brass out right at 3 o'clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Very forceful extraction will cause that crack, right there. Mortaring the rifle after stuck cases will cause it, too (not saying you did that, just saying that can cause it). not sure what you mean by "mortaring". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Right on... I think you'll like the mid length setup. I'm running a mid-length 16" from Rainier w/ a Syrac adjustable gas block and standard DPMS buffer. It cycles like a sewing machine and spits the brass out right at 3 o'clock. i am running a carbine length buffer tube which I feel was the start of all the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 not sure what you mean by "mortaring". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Just picked one up from a bro. On the box it states it must be properly lubed before insall and use? Did you do this part before fireing? I am a ways out from running this bcg but would like to know how you did the break in? Did you pre inspect before install? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I have one of their bcgs. I have yet to use their bolt though. Other then that works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ok the term makes sense now. Definitely didn't do that. Thanks for the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just picked one up from a bro. On the box it states it must be properly lubed before insall and use? Did you do this part before fireing? I am a ways out from running this bcg but would like to know how you did the break in? Did you pre inspect before install? Thanks Hey Sketch, yup, i lubed her up good with the little white bottle that the BCG shipped with and later with EWL prior to and during the range. I ran this bolt on 4 separate range days and cleaned every time. Its a pretty good crack so I think I would have caught it when it first happened but can't say for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Bummer man ! Glad Easy is on board! Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think I have a spare bolt. It's stripped,but you should be able to reuse the parts from your last bolt. I'll check the pile. If it's in there, I'll make it very affordable for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 If you had a chamber problem & enough for the Barrel maker of Gunsmith to say it shouldn't have been shipped that way , I wouldn't be too quick to blame the Bolt . I'm certainly not sticking up for SOW , just pointing out it will be hard to put a definite finger on the cause . What if the replacement bolt shows the same problem ? Carbine gas system on a 308 will punish the action parts , if not regulated & substituting a heavy Buffer may help in one way & can exasperate an over gassed issue. Meaning , longer lock time & increased pressure on the Bolt . There is a fine line to run with respect to individual components & the effects they have on the action , there has to be a balance of sorts , going to a Mid gas system will help . If you look at your second photo , at the back of the Bolts locking lugs , there is a step or drop off , that is a sign of something not right . Be it a soft bolt or another issue with head space , which could be several issues with the chamber , Barrel extension or the Bolt its self . Here are some photo's of three of my 308 Bolts. All head spaced correctly. This is my Fulton Armory BCG ( could be a DPMS ? ) this is from my 20" & has a lot of rounds through it , no idea how many , but a lot . This is my SOW BCG from my 16", & has less than 1K through it . This BCG was in my 16" before I installed this same 16 "Criterion BBL. in a different ,Tactical Machining Upper Receiver & DPMS Lower Receiver last year . It is showing the same step at the back of the Bolt locking lugs , which I think is a soft bolt with poor hardening procedure . This bolt has over 1K rounds through it & had no problems , except the rifle would not reliably function with Magpul PMags . This Barrel ( 16" )was originally in a SI Defense Gen.II Billet Upper Receive & a very early CMMG Billet Lower Receiver . Good luck on getting anything replaced right now , but keep at it , you might be successful with time . I would just get a new Bolt & be done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 If you had a chamber problem & enough for the Barrel maker of Gunsmith to say it shouldn't have been shipped that way , I wouldn't be too quick to blame the Bolt . I'm certainly not sticking up for SOW , just pointing out it will be hard to put a definite finger on the cause . What if the replacement bolt shows the same problem ? Carbine gas system on a 308 will punish the action parts , if not regulated & substituting a heavy Buffer may help in one way & can exasperate an over gassed issue. Meaning , longer lock time & increased pressure on the Bolt . There is a fine line to run with respect to individual components & the effects they have on the action , there has to be a balance of sorts , going to a Mid gas system will help . If you look at your second photo , at the back of the Bolts locking lugs , there is a step or drop off , that is a sign of something not right . Be it a soft bolt or another issue with head space , which could be several issues with the chamber , Barrel extension or the Bolt its self . Here are some photo's of three of my 308 Bolts. All head spaced correctly. This is my Fulton Armory BCG ( could be a DPMS ? ) this is from my 20" & has a lot of rounds through it , no idea how many , but a lot . DSCN2335.JPG This is my SOW BCG from my 16", & has less than 1K through it . DSCN2336.JPG This BCG was in my 16" before I installed this same 16 "Criterion BBL. in a different ,Tactical Machining Upper Receiver & DPMS Lower Receiver last year . It is showing the same step at the back of the Bolt locking lugs , which I think is a soft bolt with poor hardening procedure . This bolt has over 1K rounds through it & had no problems , except the rifle would not reliably function with Magpul PMags . This Barrel ( 16" )was originally in a SI Defense Gen.II Billet Upper Receive & a very early CMMG Billet Lower Receiver . DSCN2002.JPG Good luck on getting anything replaced right now , but keep at it , you might be successful with time . I would just get a new Bolt & be done with it Hey Survivalshop, I get your point that this could have been an issue that kept building upon itself with the other issues. I have just never seen this type of crack before and neither has the guy who made and tested the new upper assembly or Clint at heavy buffers. I am not blaming SOW for a bad part just saying that if you have one to keep an eye out just in case. Did you ever figure out why your rifle would function properly with pmags? I am guessing the slide not catching on an empty mag? Anyone use the JP enhanced bolt with a short gas system? I have one of their low mass BCG in a 22" rifle and functions flawlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think I have a spare bolt. It's stripped,but you should be able to reuse the parts from your last bolt. I'll check the pile. If it's in there, I'll make it very affordable for you. Cool, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 upon further inspection, i noticed the chip where the bolt cam pin goes in the bolt. This looks like it would have resulted from the bolt closing with too much force resulting in the chip. Also, this picture shows the wear marks that survivalshop was pointing out. The back left of the lugs are worn at an angle which suggest the bolt was not completely unlocked when the rifle was cycling and probably with too much force. Interesting side note, I used a WML to light up the bolt when I took the picture hence the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 You will normally see wear marks on the Bolt , but being squared to the rest of the lug is abnormal , like the Bolt was out of battery when cartridge fired off , as you said . I say bad Bolt Metallurgy & may be why it cracked , it happens , but shouldn't . May be a sign of out of spec's component, like Head space or you could have got some really HOT ammo . M16/15 bolts have cracked in the same place , something may be amiss . The Bolt in my photo , which I will look at more closely , was still functioning & caused no problems , but maybe would not have stayed that way . I'm using the same Barrel it was in with the SOW NIB BCG & no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I have just never seen this type of crack before and neither has the guy who made and tested the new upper assembly or Clint at heavy buffers. heminut recently posted his broken bolts, same place as yours. Two bolts, broken in the same place, less than 1k rounds on each of them. It's been done before. Larry, post that stuff into this thread, brother! <lmao> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Mine's been fine so far. No problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Here's the thread on his AR15 Bolt , with photo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calegalish Posted March 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Here's the thread on his AR15 Bolt , with photo's i saw this while browsing the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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