Why trolling doesn't work (or) Even 109 Blue facts are still stubborn things...

[GreyGoose]

Very similar to my own experience, its also in sync with what I read, one can only assume it is true beyond the exclusivity of our beloved 308AR community.

Edited September 9, 2015 by GreyGoose

[GreyGoose]

EXEMPTION :

In no way was this intended to be directed towards any 308AR Members, their families, beneficiaries, or agents, nor was it intended to address the subject matter or include the aforementioned and is not limited to any of its contents or the words blue or number 109.

[blue109]

You don't have to justify spending too much money on a product with no clear benefit and a few minor shortcomings to us man...we love evil black rifles no matter what they look like on the inside. If you are still trying to convince yourself, than by All means continue.

 

:)

[EngrBob]

Someone at DHS just had an orgasm!

[GreyGoose]

You don't have to justify spending too much money on a product with no clear benefit and a few minor shortcomings to us man...we love evil black rifles no matter what they look like on the inside. If you are still trying to convince yourself, than by All means continue.

 

:)

LOL!!! LMAO Just had to do it brother.... ;-)

Agreed, luv em all! haha.

[wetncold]

Who is this guy. He sounds like a 16 year old that has only made it to first base. Once.

[GreyGoose]

I don't know W+C, he owns a gun shop, has a very successful YT channel, and seems to be making his way pretty well in the gun industry.

[blue109]

Who is this guy. He sounds like a 16 year old that has only made it to first base. Once.

that's silly. Jus owning a piston AR gets you to 3rd base by default. Girls drop panties for seal guns.

[GreyGoose]

that's silly. Jus owning a piston AR gets you to 3rd base by default. Girls drop panties for seal guns.

Now you know the real reason why I one one, need all the tactical advantages I can get... ;-)

[Magwa]

I ain't buying in on this poop... to many one off parts if it breaks it is a shovel handle... no thanks and i would never spend that much on any rifle ... period :)

 

  AND WAY TP F___ING HEAVY!!!!!

Edited September 9, 2015 by Magwa

[DNP]

that's silly. Jus owning a piston AR gets you to 3rd base by default. Girls drop panties for seal guns.

bazzinga. 

[jtallen83]

Now you know the real reason why I one one, need all the tactical advantages I can get... ;-)

I don't get it, what are the tactical advantages? Who is the guy in the video and what are his credentials?  It's a great gun because his girlfriend can shoot it well??????

LWRC makes a fine weapon but much more tacticool advantage than tactical advantage. I'll stick with my Armalite M15TBN build and spend the extra cash on ammo......guess I already spent and shot it, with no failures. If it does fail I can swap parts with any of the DI AR's  around me that number like blades of grass....2 cents spent, not even going to seal land.............

[washguy]

Ill take this one !  no piston for me...... cut and paste from SWAT magazine the Bravo  filthy 14

 

FILTHY 14

As of this writing, EAG students have 31,165 rounds downrange through Filthy 14. During this evaluation period, it was cleaned once (as in one time), at 26,245 rounds. The end result is that Rack #14 was—and remains—filthy. It is filthy because it has been shot at class. Only at class. Every round that has gone down that barrel has been fired at class, with an average of approximately 1,300 rounds every three days. It has been lubed generously with Slip 2000 Extreme Weapons Lube (EWL).

The combination of carbon and lube create (wait for it)…filth. It is so dirty that, while sitting in the rifle rack, it is almost a biohazard. The filth oozes out and contaminates other carbines adjacent to it.

But it is still shooting—and shooting well.

Rack #14 is a 16-inch Bravo Company Mid Length Carbine—mid length meaning that the gas system is two inches longer than the standard carbine gas system. This permits the use of a nine-inch rail with the standard front sight base. Use of a clamp on the front sight will permit a longer rail to be used.

The longer rail is necessary to accommodate some shooting styles, as well as to provide additional rail estate for the various white lights and IR lasers required to kill bad guys at night.

Subjectively, the mid length system has a softer recoil impulse.

The lower receiver is a Bravo Company USA M4A1, one of very few in circulation. It has a TangoDown BG-16 Pistol Grip. An LMT Sloping Cheekweld Stock (aka the Crane Stock) rides on the milspec receiver extension, as does a TangoDown PR-4 Sling Mount.

The upper is a BCM item, with a milspec 16.1”, 1:7 twist barrel. The barrel steel is chrome moly vanadium (CMV) and certified under milspec Mil-B-11595E.

The BCM bolt is machined from milspec Carpenter 158® gun quality steel, heat-treated per milspec, and then shot peened per Mil-S-13165. Once completed, each bolt is fired with a high-pressure test (HPT) cartridge and then magnetic particle inspected (MPI) in accordance with ASTM E1444.

The handguard is a LaRue 15-9, the nine-inch model to allow full use of the available rail estate.

We have a TangoDown BGV-MK46K Stubby Vertical Foregrip. We use TangoDown BP-4 Rail Panels.

The primary sight is an Aimpoint T1 in a LaRue 660 Mount. The T1 is still on the same set of batteries, and it has never been shut off. The back-up sight is the Magpul MBUS and the sling is the Viking Tactics VTAC.

This is a normal configuration for our guns, although stocks (Magpul CTR, Vltor I-Mod), BUIS (Troy), and day optic (Aimpoint M4s) may be substituted.

IN SERVICE

We received the carbine in late 2008 and put #14 into service shortly thereafter.

At Brady, Texas, in March 2009, it suffered a malfunction, which was reduced with Immediate Action. The bolt was wiped down at 6,450 rounds.

At Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, in May 2009, it had several failures to extract, and the extractor spring was replaced at 13,010 rounds. This is far beyond the normal extractor spring life under these conditions.

At Wamego, Kansas, in June 2009, two bolt lugs broke at 16,400 rounds. We replaced the BCG. Considering the firing schedule, this is within normal parameters.

At Columbus, Ohio, in November 2009, we had several failures to extract at 24,450 rounds. The shooter gave it a field cleaning and replaced the extractor and extractor spring.

At 28,905 rounds, we finally cleaned Filthy 14. As part of our year-end maintenance schedule, we inspect and replace parts as necessary. Filthy 14 looked like the inside of the crankcase of Uncle Ed’s ’49 Packard. It was disgusting to look at and contaminated everything near it, somewhat like the toner cartridges for old printers.

I plopped it into a parts washer filled with Slip 725 parts cleaner, and 20 minutes later it was clean. Mostly clean, anyway.

We have never used a bore brush in the barrel of this gun. We did run a patch down the barrel twice, but that was all. At 50 yards it still shoots two-inch groups, and we understand that it might not at 100 yards and beyond, but we are happy with the fact that, even at 50 yards, the gun is capable of tighter groups than most of the people running it.

We have never used a chamber brush in this gun either. We were often told that this was an absolute must.

Sure…

At the last class in Casa Grande, Arizona, at approximately 30,000 rounds, we had several failures to extract. We replaced the extractor spring and wiped down the BCG.

By the time you read this, we’ll likely have another 3,000 to 4,000 rounds through Filthy 14. At that point we’ll probably retire it. We’ll reuse the LaRue rail, the sights and, after rebuilding the lower, replace that old and well-worn mid length upper with something else.

Fourteen will continue, but just not as Filthy 14.

WHY WE DID IT

What was the point of this 15-month exercise? We know than an AR built to the spec will run more reliably for a longer period of time than a hobby gun. We have run a number of guns to over 15,000 rounds without cleaning—or malfunctions—as long as they were kept well lubricated. And because we have over 20 Bravo Company guns in the armory, we also understand that the quality of one is not an accident.

My background of belonging to a tribe where weapons cleaning approached Jesuit-like fanaticism caused me to once believe that the AR must be spotlessly, white-glove clean in order for it to run.

We know that is patently false, and in fact the overzealous cleaning regimen—clean for three days in a row, use of scrapers on the BCG, attaching chamber and bore brushes to drills, etc.—is harmful to the guns.

We know that not all ARs are the same, and only a fool believes that “parts are parts.”

If you want something that is visually similar to what the military uses, buy just about anything and you’ll be satisfied. But if you are going to use it for real, buy something that is made to the spec.

Have realistic expectations. No gun—or car, plane, hibachi or person—lasts forever. Recently a customer sent an upper back to Bravo Company complaining that the gas tube was bent.

It sure was. It was bent because the owner apparently fired 600 rounds downrange in full auto, causing the gas tube to melt into the barrel. If you want to be stupid, buy a lesser quality gun and save yourself some money.

Again, let me repeat the caveat. If you are carrying a gun for real, you need to be looking at it every 5,000 rounds or so. But if your cleaning takes more than 10 to 15 minutes, you are wasting your time on nonsense.

At a carbine class in Colorado last year, one-third of the carbines used (eight of 24) were Bravo Company guns. The fact that the Pueblo West classes are populated in large part by professionals means that this may be a clue.

CONCLUSIONS

The fact that Filthy 14 ran so long and well can be attributed to the following:

First is the design of the gun. Cpl. Eugene Stoner knew what he was doing.   Wash

 

[GreyGoose]

I don't get it, what are the tactical advantages? Who is the guy in the video and what are his credentials?  It's a great gun because his girlfriend can shoot it well??????

LWRC makes a fine weapon but much more tacticool advantage than tactical advantage. I'll stick with my Armalite M15TBN build and spend the extra cash on ammo......guess I already spent and shot it, with no failures. If it does fail I can swap parts with any of the DI AR's  around me that number like blades of grass....2 cents spent, not even going to seal land.............

I said that as a joke to Blue, he was saying something about chicks dropping their panties over a piston gun.

Sounds like you have a plan, I suggest you stick with that plan since its working for you.

ANYWAY, as I have said several times already, and this will be the last time;

I am a DI guy, doing the same thing you guys are, I just happen to own one piston gun, and all I am saying is that I do see why the guys in uniforms who ride around at night in helo's and rubber boats and have unlimited funds thanks to you and me, choose to run piston guns, there are intrinsic advantages to them.

So I am not a LWRC salesman, or pimp, I just happen to own one, and it is a nice rifle.

BTW I posted his credentials above if you are actually curious, but there are TONS of guys and resources out on the internet that have the same take, its hardly an unusual or controversial position to take.

So what do ya say we all go out and shoot our DI guns, I will occasionally shoot my piston gun, and we can try and talk about something else easier to resolve, like 1911 vs Glock, or Ford vs Chevy.

Ha!

[98Z5V]

I see things not going so well, here.  Maybe I'm clairvoyant, I don't know...

[GreyGoose]

I see things not going so well, here.  Maybe I'm clairvoyant, I don't know...

Well, these which is better, blondes vs brunettes, '55 Dodgers vs '27 Yankees, etc. kinds of conversations rarely do.

I just happened to end up under the dog pile on this one. lol

Oh well, to each there own.

[washguy]

Well, these which is better, blondes vs brunettes, '55 Dodgers vs '27 Yankees, etc. kinds of conversations rarely do.

I just happened to end up under the dog pile on this one. lol

Oh well, to each there own.

Just messin with ya cause I dont have a piston rifle ..... but if I did have a piston gun the way my luck is runnin...it would need a ring job and the piston would be burnt        Wash

you really think the bravo dirty 14 is for real?    lol

 

 

Ill take this one !  cut and paste from SWAT magazine   filthy 14

 

[98Z5V]

you really think the bravo dirty 14 is for real?    lol

 

Last count by Pat Rogers was 51,000 rounds.

Updates, as Slip2000 gets them, are made. Breakages have been repaired, but the rifle hasn't been cleaned. Just lubed.

 

[98Z5V]

EXEMPTION :

In no way was this intended to be directed towards any 308AR Members, their families, beneficiaries, or agents, nor was it intended to address the subject matter or include the aforementioned and is not limited to any of its contents or the words blue or number 109.

That's straight bullshiit, right there - you did target a member here, in the thread title.  You even ramble on about it in this post you made...

GG, I hate to tell you this, but your representation thus far on this board is less than desired. Take a look at how you've been so far - really take a look at it.  Look at yourself, and your posts.  If you continue the path you're currently walking, you're in for a rude awakening.

[GreyGoose]

Excuse me... WTF?

Tom that was a joke.

Blue and I were horsing around with one another, I even PM'd him to let him know I appreciated his input and make sure it was just in good fun, and he indicated for me to relax and enjoy, that it makes the place more interesting, and how he is a professional troll anyway or something to that effect, and so we were just laughing it off and having a little fun in the midst of an opinionated thread. The exemption notice was a part of all that and was certainly tongue in cheek Tom, of course I was referring to him, he knew it, I knew it, we all did, hence it being made in a lighthearted manner.

Aside from this thread, which you have completely misread BTW, what is it Sir that I have done, or said that gives you any pause, or reason to question my behavior whatsoever?

Edited September 10, 2015 by GreyGoose

[98Z5V]

Get into mrraleys thread again - piston vs. push rod - the warning he gave initially was for trolls and BS.  He wanted input, short, sweet, and to the point.  You dragged that thing into the ground with your opinion, over and over.  And he predicted it.  I'm surprised the whole thread is still up.  Go read it.  Again.  Look at you, in that thread.

[98Z5V]

[GreyGoose]

Ok, I read the thread again.

Jesus Tom, I just don't see anywhere there that I was particularly out of line.

I posted a concise list of my opinions as the OP requested, and sure my opinion differed from some others, but that's what makes an opinion an opinion, then generally speaking I just commented when commented directly to, or having been quoted in a reply.

The thread with Blue was a branch off from and a continuation of the MrRaley thread.

Anyway, geeze, I'm not sure what else to say. I certainly wasn't trying to create any animosity or become a problem, I feel like I had made some good connections with PPL here and was on good terms with everyone, I was simply trying to participate on the site where I felt I could, and genuinely wanted to learn how to avoid mistakes on my 308AR build along the way.

Sounds though like you feel I am not creating a benefit here, and I sure as fu*k don't want to feel like I have to tip-toe around and not be who I am just to avoid having some 2000 lbs gorilla jump down my a$$, so given that fact I will just apologize and take my leave here and get involved elsewhere.

Good luck getting that sniper Tom.

Adios

[98Z5V]

Jesus Tom, I just don't see anywhere there that I was particularly out of line.

I posted a concise list of my opinions as the OP requested, and sure my opinion differed from some others, but that's what makes an opinion an opinion, then generally speaking I just commented when commented directly to, or having been quoted in a reply.

You posted again and again and again...  and wouldn't stop.  You didn't just "post an opinion" - that would have been one post and leave - like I did.  You had to make sure that everyone knew your opinion, over and over.  You GET that?

Okay, who the fuk are you to call me by first name - do I know you?  Have you and I made a purchase-deal together?  Have I ever PMd you and given you my first name?  It doesn't matter one bit how many people here know me - they KNOW me, having MET me.  You think you can just jump right in there, with them.  You are NOT them.

You're forcing yourself on people, whether you realize that or not. If you don't realize it, then it's a mistake you need to be aware of.  You don't jump in somewhere and shove yourself into certain cliques, and people - you don't bully your way in by way of saying this-or-that.  It doesn't fucking work.  What you find, quite to the contrary, is that you'll get your ass pushed off the edge, as you have done.

Good luck elsewhere.  And, I don't need good luck with any sniper - I don't want to have anything to do with it, don't want to be involved with it.  I pray I'm NOT involved with it. I just drive that road every single day.  If, however, I become sucked into it, I'm not going to be a sheep, and run. It's comments like that from you that truly show you have no fucking clue...

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

And you're still reading this...

I think it's COMPLETELY ironic that you titled this thread "Why trolling doesn't work..."  ...and you've been trolling the whole time you've been here. 

Seriously, look up the definition of "internet troll" - it's YOU.  Read, learn, discover. If you need examples pointed out from this article, please ask, as I will gladly provide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll