Gregory Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Am new to this, will have a 80% lower that I have to machine, and I have neither the equipment or talent (hate to admit it) to do it. I know there are special rules for this, but I need to have somebody help me with this. I live in AZ but would be willing to travel some to do it. Any thoughts or ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger43 Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 I think if you buy an 80% and get someone to help you build it, BATFE will likely want to have a chat with both of you.....at their place....possibly for a long time. But that's just my thought and idea. I have zero legal skills, no law knowledge, can't even read very well. Just a wild-assed guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 My understanding of the rule is that you can use someone else's tools as they watch over your shoulder but they cannot do any of the work, I've read articles on "build parties". I would refrain from mentioning this stuff on social media if I were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Get onto Youtube and search. There are so many videos on how to machine an 80%! You can use a hand drill. the GenesisCNC folks have a video coming out soon wherein one of their 8 year old daughters machines an 80%. You can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngrBob Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Yes, you MUST do the work, all the work, yourself. Otherwise you AND whoever participates will be guests of the federal authorities for quite some time. There are a couple of good systems out there. If you don't have a mini-mill Modulus makes a universal jig for .308 lowers that requires only a drill press and a router. I haven't used this since I have a mini-mill, and the jig costs almost half the price of a Harbor Freight mini-mill, but the Modulus jig is the only one that seems to be universal. Otherwise get a jig from whomever you purchased the lower from, go slow, and enjoy the experience. Measure - Measure - Measure.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Gray area , if he is only helping with this one , but its his call , because he is doing the work for you or if he did it for himself & didn't like it & gave it to you . ATF Changes Definition of “Manufacturer” Posted by johnjacobh on August 17, 2008 From the administration of the “Vote Freedom First” President George W. Bush, the ATF launches another breathtaking power grab. New Link to replace dead link: “http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html”> Complete Link: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/081508manufacturing-of-firearms.pdf Text of File: U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Firearms Technology Branch August 15, 2008 Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405http://www.atf.gov Manufacturing of Firearms Below are examples of operations performed on firearms and guidance as to whether or not such operations would be considered manufacturing under the Gun Control Act (GCA). These examples do not address the question of whether the operations are considered manufacturing for purposes of determining excise tax. Any questions concerning the payment of excise tax should be directed to the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, U.S. Department of the Treasury. Generally, a person should obtain a license as a manufacturer of firearms if the person: 1) is performing operations that create firearms or alter firearms (in the case of alterations, the work is not being performed at the request of customers, rather the person who is altering the firearms is purchasing them making the changes, and then reselling them); 2) is performing the operations as a regular course of business or trade; and 3) is performing the operations for the purpose of sale or distribution of the firearms. 1. A company produces a quantity of firearm frames or receivers for sale to customers who will assemble firearms. The company is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms. 2. A company produces frames or receivers for another company that assembles and sells the firearms. Both companies are engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms, and each should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms. 3. A company provides frames to a subcontractor company that performs machining operations on the frames and returns the frames to the original company that assembles and sells the completed firearms. Both companies are engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed as manufacturers of firearms. 4. A company produces barrels for firearms and sells the barrels to another company that assembles and sells complete firearms. Because barrels are not firearms, the company that manufactures the barrels is not a manufacturer of firearms. The company that assembles and sells the firearms should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms. 5. A company receives firearm frames from individual customers, attaches stocks and barrels, and returns the firearms to the customers for the customers’ personal use. The operations performed on the firearms were not for the purpose of sale or distribution. The company should be licensed as a dealer or gunsmith, not as a manufacturer of firearms. 6. A company acquires one receiver, assembles one firearm, and sells the firearm. The company is not manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business and is not engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms. This company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer. 7. An individual acquires frames or receivers and assembles firearms for his or her personal use, not for sale or distribution. The individual is not manufacturing firearms for sale or distribution and is not required to be a licensed manufacturer. 8. A gunsmith regularly buys military-type firearms, Mausers, etc., and sporterizes” them for resale. The gunsmith is in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed as a manufacturer. 9. A gunsmith buys semiautomatic pistols and modifies the slides to accept a new style of sights. The sights are not usually sold with these firearms and do not attach to the existing mounting openings. The gunsmith offers these firearms for sale. This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms, and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer. 10. A gunsmith buys government model pistols and installs “drop-in” precision trigger parts or other “drop-in parts” for the purpose of resale. This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms, as the gunsmith is purchasing the firearms, modifying the firearms, and selling them. The gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer. 11. A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles, bends the bolts to accept a scope, and then drills the receivers for a scope base. The gunsmith offers these firearms for sale. This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms, and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer. 12. A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles or pistols and removes the stocks, adds new stocks or pistol grips, cleans the firearms, then sends the firearms to a separate contractor for bluing. These firearms are then sold to the public. This would be considered manufacturing of firearms, and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer. 13. A company purchases surplus firearms, cleans the firearms, then offers them for sale to the public. The company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer. 14. A company produces firearms or firearm receivers and sends the firearm/receivers out for colorizing (bluing, camouflaging, phosphating, or plating) and/or heat treating. Do the companies performing the colorization and/or heat treating need to be licensed as manufacturers, and are the companies required to place their markings on the firearm? ATF has determined that both colorization and heat treating of firearms are manufacturing processes. The companies performing the processes are required to be licensed as manufacturers. If the companies providing colorization and/or heat treating have not received variances to adopt the original manufacturer’s markings, they would be required to place their own markings on any firearm on which they perform the manufacturing process of colorization and/or heat treating. About these ads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guruofhotrod Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) There's always this: https://ghostgunner.net/ or, just buy a finished lower and be happy - 80's can be very time consuming/$ consuming to do if you really want it nice - custom engraving, bead blast, anodizing or cerakote etc Edited July 11, 2016 by guruofhotrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger43 Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 hours ago, EngrBob said: Yes, you MUST do the work, all the work, yourself. Otherwise you AND whoever participates will be guests of the federal authorities for quite some time. There are a couple of good systems out there. If you don't have a mini-mill Modulus makes a universal jig for .308 lowers that requires only a drill press and a router. I haven't used this since I have a mini-mill, and the jig costs almost half the price of a Harbor Freight mini-mill, but the Modulus jig is the only one that seems to be universal. Otherwise get a jig from whomever you purchased the lower from, go slow, and enjoy the experience. Measure - Measure - Measure.......... I've used the "dedicated" .308 jig from 80percentarms.com, (twice, and with their proprietary lower) and the universal jig from Modulus for an AR-15 build (not a Modulus lower). Both are very good. Borrow a decent drill press, and maybe buy an OK trim router. I used a $100 trim router from Home Depot. Both worked great. And, you can use the jigs for a bunch of lowers, not just one. And yeah, this is supposed to be fun. Like EngrBob said, Go slow. Very slow. Watch videos. Read the directions. It ain't rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 16 hours ago, Gregory said: Am new to this, will have a 80% lower that I have to machine, and I have neither the equipment or talent (hate to admit it) to do it. I know there are special rules for this, but I need to have somebody help me with this. I live in AZ but would be willing to travel some to do it. Any thoughts or ideas? Buy a stripped lower ! It will be cheaper in the long run. And a lot less of a headache. All of the reasons above should reinforce that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Thanks for all the replies. I am aware of the rules and certainly have no desire for myself or anyone else to run afoul of the ATF. what I was looking for is someone to act as an instructor and watch while I learn and do. Ive seen the videos on YouTube, they're great, but no substitute for actual knowledge or experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 20 hours ago, Gregory said: Am new to this, will have a 80% lower that I have to machine, and I know there are special rules for this, but I need to have somebody help me with this. I live in AZ but would be willing to travel some to do it. Any thoughts or ideas? I have neither the equipment or talent (hate to admit it) to do it. This is machine work. Not what "I" would call "real" gunsmithing. If you truly believe you don't have the talent Why are you waisting time with it? No offense but if someone came to my shop with this attitude I would quickley show him the door. This not hard, but it is something that you really believe you can do.With the " I don't have the talent" attitude your setting yourself up for failure. So why would you expect anyone to invest the time in you???? I'v helped a lot of guys, over the years. But they always had the attitude " I know I could do this with a little help". Just y two cents Again, Respectfullt Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted July 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Thank-you. If you look at what I last wrote, because I've never done anything like this previously, I was looking for someone who might be able to teach me and watch while I do it. I want to learn and not screw it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 I apoligse for my abruptness. To late in the day for me to be replying to threads. Befor going on to an 80%er, you REALLY need some basic time with a drill press, and router work. Also basic file work. You really need some basic knowledge in drill speeds, mill feed speed and router work, along with what, and how much coolent/cutting oil is needed and why there are differences. A short course in machine work at your local vocational college would be a great way to start. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Yep^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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