MK316 mod 0

[Magwa]

what does anyone know about this 308 ammo I think it is 175 grain long range stuff, info?

[mrmackc]

From Wiki:

Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain (11.3 g) round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.745-grain (2.7 g)

[mrmackc]

Here is a link to all the 7.62x51 NATO Military stuff on WIKI, that I found:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×51mm_NATO

[jtallen83]

17 hours ago, Magwa said:

what does anyone know about this 308 ammo I think it is 175 grain long range stuff, info?

I know I never see it for sale!

[washguy]

what bout this stuff...seen it around for cheaper    http://www.luckygunner.com/762x51mm-175-gr-hpbt-xm118-lake-city-500-round

 

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-lake-city-m118-762x51mm-ammo-175-grain-match-bthp-bulk-xm188cs-p-3393.aspx

Edited November 29, 2016 by washguy

[jtallen83]

I've got a good pile of M118LR and FGMM 7.62 175's but most describe it as having the same FC headstamp case and the same 175SMK as the FGMM but using a different powder.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

 

[Magwa]

thanks guys so has anyone shot this stuff is it considered awesome stuff or so so ran? and can you buy it or just stick with 168's..

 

[washguy]

11 minutes ago, Magwa said:

thanks guys so has anyone shot this stuff is it considered awesome stuff or so so ran? and can you buy it or just stick with 168's..

 

Mag  with the FGMM 168 being sold for 18.75 a box.....I would just stick with it     the MK319 on the other hand is what im wanting....bought some last year and its badazz for hunting and self defense....only have a lil left, and no one has any for sale       Wash

[survivalshop]

Magwa , its about time you got into hand loading . You can make any of this fodder with better bullets for hunting , in the same Bullet weight, with the same results as the MIlSpec's posted above . I have no problem even getting SD ( standard deviation ) into the single digits . Though their guarantee of 15 fps SD is pretty good for factory ammo .

 Match Bullets will not expand well in all conditions for clean harvest of game animals . No doubt they will put a hurt on them , but not the best choice , do not compare killing a Human to a large game animal .

Edited November 30, 2016 by survivalshop

[mrmackc]

3 hours ago, washguy said:

Mag  with the FGMM 168 being sold for 18.75 a box.....I would just stick with it     the MK319 on the other hand is what im wanting....bought some last year and its badazz for hunting and self defense....only have a lil left, and no one has any for sale       Wash

I still have that little bit I bought I plan using it in the LR308 in an upcoming long range match since us senior old codgers can use a table and a sandbag rest.

[washguy]

42 minutes ago, mrmackc said:

I still have that little bit I bought I plan using it in the LR308 in an upcoming long range match since us senior old codgers can use a table and a sandbag rest.

Mrmac       you lucky dog!  shootin long range and having some mk319 too.....shoot straight!      Wash

[mrmackc]

Maybe I will do well enough to buy a reloading kit and some 4064 and some Federal Gold metal primers and HPBT bullets.

[Magwa]

I hand loaded for over 35 years and when I sold all my bolt guns and other custom single shots I sold all my reloading gear I did a lot of custom wildcats 6mm284, 7mm STW,I made STW cases from 300 H&H cases before they were available commercially, turned necks annealed necks turned primer pocked inside and out  did it all for accuracy, and was good at it but as I got into the semi auto rifles I just decided to buy ammo and keep everything simple.....

[survivalshop]

32 minutes ago, Magwa said:

I hand loaded for over 35 years and when I sold all my bolt guns and other custom single shots I sold all my reloading gear I did a lot of custom wildcats 6mm284, 7mm STW,I made STW cases from 300 H&H cases before they were available commercially, turned necks annealed necks turned primer pocked inside and out  did it all for accuracy, and was good at it but as I got into the semi auto rifles I just decided to buy ammo and keep everything simple.....

 Now your back to ammo you can't readily get again . 

 One other thing you may consider , that ammo was made for specific rifles , it may not perform up to those standards in your rifle , not that it will shoot lousy . but you never know how it will perform . 

[Sisco]

The amount I shoot, I couldn't afford to unless I handloaded. Plus it is, quite simply more accurate once you match the rifle, bullet, and load. Reloading I can afford to shoot 100 - 150 308 rounds a month. If I had to buy it at 18.00 a box, something would have to give.

[mrmackc]

11 hours ago, Sisco said:

The amount I shoot, I couldn't afford to unless I handloaded. Plus it is, quite simply more accurate once you match the rifle, bullet, and load. Reloading I can afford to shoot 100 - 150 308 rounds a month. If I had to buy it at 18.00 a box, something would have to give.

You got my attention Sisco. after reloading for 20 years I dropped out for 20 years and I am about to start again, I may just be an old fool but you ain't young forever and I figure I can get around 150 to 160 .308 rounds from a pound of powder, counting 7000 grains per pound.

So where do you buy your 4064 powder? Or do you prefer a different powder?

Edited December 1, 2016 by mrmackc

[Sisco]

2 hours ago, mrmackc said:

You got my attention Sisco. after reloading for 20 years I dropped out for 20 years and I am about to start again, I may just be an old fool but you ain't young forever and I figure I can get around 150 to 160 .308 rounds from a pound of powder, counting 7000 grains per pound.

So where do you buy your 4064 powder? Or do you prefer a different powder?

I am currently using RL15, when Alliant had the government contract, that is what was going into the M118LR, it is my understanding. Similar to Varget.. I have 4064 in some of my 30-06, both 150gr and 165gr..The bad news is that the price of RL15 and every thing else has doubled since Sandy Hook. I paid $70 each for two 5 lb canisters back then before they ran out, when they gave a good bulk discount, now they are $145 each at the store 70 miles away I normally go to. When I run out, which will be a while, I will have to pay the piper. I just got a pound of Varget for $25

. A good part of those 100-150 rounds I shoot a month is any decent M80 I can find. Lately I found a bunch of ZQ-1 Turkish M80 at Wally World for $7.40/20 closeout price. Then I size them and ream out the primer crimp and use those as the basis for my hand loads. Interesting is that as long as it is NATO spec M80, I don't find much chronograph speeds difference between brass manufacturers. Enough maybe to bother a precision distance shooter, but not me. Within 300 yards they are pretty darn close in shot placement, all other things being equal. Now that I have enough brass inventory, I will be shooting less and less surplus stuff. I just ordered a carbide factory crimping die in 308 from Lee, and will be putting a light crimp on all my reloads to protect from bullet shifting in the magazine during shooting. A good $15 investment.

I found 40 Federal 308 brass at the range a couple of weeks ago, when I sized them, it took a lot more effort than a 7.62 for whatever reason. I think they might have originally been a hot load fired in a bolt gun, which caused more than normal brass expansion. I also had to take off more brass on the throat then normal when I trimmed them. They all looked in great shape however, no splits or flattened primers and looked to be only once fired.

[planeflyer21]

Are you saying the RL15 is the former M118LR powder?

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, planeflyer21 said:

Are you saying the RL15 is the former M118LR powder?

I have seen reports of that other places. I will have to go back and see the sources. Give me a couple of days. I am pretty busy right now.

[Magwa]

Yes some ammo is now hard to get but being the smart Injun I am I bought a lot during the years when it was less costly I will never run out of 22 and I have not bought any for 6 or 7 years  did the same for other calibers now I am looking for bulk 300 BO then my life will be complete.... :)

 

[Sisco]

WC750 was the original M118LR powder, but that was changed at the same time that Federal took over production and manufacture of the M118LR due to problems with temperature variations. Federal also adapted their Gold Metal Match case for use in the M118LR at that time. While not changed in nomenclature, it is essentially a new ammo. I am still working to find the references to RL15. It seems to be a closely held piece of information.

[Sisco]

IMR 4064 is used in the M316 Mod ) if you believe Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×51mm_NATO

[Sisco]

Quite a discussion and research has been done other places. Originally the M118LR used IMR 4895, when Remington Had the contract. When Winchester Corporation took it over they switched to WC750, which did not do well as far as consistency in desert conditions (Iraq). As of 2007, Federal won the contract and switched to RL15 with the above changes to the case and also the primer, as well, using their Gold Medal Match Primer. I believe Federal still has the contract but that it has been superseded by the above Mark 316 Mod 0. I like M118LR, but it is a hot load, and I have some pretty high muzzle velocities on my chronograph, so I keep it in reserve, or to compare to my reloads.

[mrmackc]

I saw in another data source that IM 4064 was used in M316 and M 118,  . There also was information on loading 3006 M72 Match  with IM 4895 and 4064 which was used as National Match 30 CAL (3006) which I reloaded and used a lot of in my M1 NM rifle from 1965 thru 1980.

I once tried working up a 180 grain long range (500-1000) yard load but the MI didn't like that load it was wild and the gas system went crazy. It was  a fine long distance round for my Springfield 03A3

[Sisco]

1 minute ago, mrmackc said:

I saw in another data source that IM 4064 was used in M316 and M 118,  . There also was information on loading 3006 M72 Match  with IM 4895 and 4064 which was used as National Match 30 CAL (3006) which I reloaded and used a lot of in my M1 NM rifle from 1965 thru 1980.

I once tried working up a 180 grain long range (500-1000) yard load but the MI didn't like that load it was wild and the gas system went crazy. It was  a fine long distance round for my Springfield 03A3

Damn, Rifles are fun!