25-45 Sharps anyone .

[survivalshop]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Here they be.  Had to find an unmolested Gen 2 PMag 20 to load the 5.56 into.  I'm going to modify all of them, so I never have an issue. Before I mid the one in the pic, I'm going to load up some 300BLK 150gr Hornady FMJ BT loads that I've got,and see if/what the interference is.

NOTE:  I don't doubt for a second that MagPul changed that center tab location (going lower) because of the prevalence of 300BLK...

25-45 and 5.56 here:

 

 I can see why the flash on the inside of the Mag was an issue with those HP Bullets . 

     I took some of my cans of 5.56/.223 & man there are a lot of cases that are short , below the 1.750" , I know sizing them for .223 , they mostly all will need trimming & I don't use any case shorter then 1.749" for precision/Hunting loadings , but for blasting ammo , there length doesn't matter to me . My forming to 25-45 , show a reduction it length, so any length less then 1.750" , will be shorter then my set parameters for reloading . 

     Now that brings me to the 25-45 , if its the same trim to length as a .223 , I will be sorting my brass for a length , after forming , that will need to be trimmed to the 1.750" . Its just me & from my testing , which there is a old thread in this reloading section somewhere , that Case length makes a difference in performance , as far as ES & SD velocities , the trimmed brass at the trim to length ,had a substantial difference in those categories , with the trimmed to ,showing more consistent & lower numbers . 

     So far most of the brass thats over the trim to length i'm taking measurements on are LC , might be why thats why most show using LC for forming 25-45 Sharps . 

  Yes , I'm picky !

[survivalshop]

 Got some 90 gr. Sierra 90 gr. Bullets  today , so i'll be loading up some to shoot this week .

Edited May 1, 2017 by survivalshop

[survivalshop]

 I set my COL for 2.250" & this is an old Mag , not a Gen 3 . This is my dummy round , feed fine , my LE Wilson Case Gage is still on back order from Brownells .

[98Z5V]

Still might need to knock the top of that notch off each inside edge of the mag - it kicks the round towards that center divider, because of the larger neck diameter.

This isn't an issue on 300BLK, because we cut the case back to 35mm, and bullet ogive never touches that part of the mag...

 

Cut this guy off - just knock it down flush with the rest of that rib running down into the mag body:

Edited May 3, 2017 by 98Z5V

[survivalshop]

12 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Cut this guy off - just knock it down flush with the rest of that rib running down into the mag body:

 Would that cause issues with 5.556 ammo ? I'm using 20rd. Brownells metal mags with this rifle , I have to look at those . I got my Gas Tube & now have a complete rifle .

[98Z5V]

3 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 Would that cause issues with 5.56 ammo ? I'm using 20rd. Brownells metal mags with this rifle , I have to look at those . I got my Gas Tube & now have a complete rifle .

Nope, no issues with 5.56 at all - just because the mag was designed for 5.56.  That little nub sticking out is there for the neck diameter of 5.56, and to make sure the round stays perfectly aligned when it's the top round in the mag.

With metal mags, you won't have an issue that I can think of. I'll check some old Colt 20 rounders and see.  That's only an issue on Gen 2 PMags (and first release PMags).

That same side nub is there on the Gen 3 PMags, but that center divider is lower in the mag body, so the two aren't fighting each other with these larger diameter rounds.

[survivalshop]

4 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Nope, no issues with 5.56 at all - just because the mag was designed for 5.56.  That little nub sticking out is there for the neck diameter of 5.56, and to make sure the round stays perfectly aligned when it's the top round in the mag.

With metal mags, you won't have an issue that I can think of. I'll check some old Colt 20 rounders and see.  That's only an issue on Gen 2 PMags (and first release PMags).

That same side nub is there on the Gen 3 PMags, but that center divider is lower in the mag body, so the two aren't fighting each other with these larger diameter rounds.

Ah ha , thats an old mag in the photo , how do you know the first gen. or second , for that matter ? I know the Gen 3 have it stamped on it .

  Can you still use the altered mag for 5.56 , I guess I should have asked it differently , so to be clear .

Edited May 3, 2017 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

13 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

Ah ha , thats an old mag in the photo , how do you know the first gen. or second , for that matter ? I know the Gen 3 have it stamped on it .

The diff between 1 and 2 was a material change.  Once the bodies were made with a different material, they had a "Revision M" injected into the mold.  Rev M mags are Gen 2 mags.  If they are the older style, and don't have Rev M in them, they are first generation mags.  They changed mags didn't really get the name "Gen 2" until they were offered cheaper, without the dust cover, and were marketed as "Gen 2 MOE" mags, to follow the lower pricing of the rest of the MOE line...

So, old style with no Rev M = Gen 1.  old style with Rev M = Gen 2.

Gen 2 on the left, with the M - compared to Gen 3 on the right:

Edited May 3, 2017 by 98Z5V

[survivalshop]

1 minute ago, 98Z5V said:

The diff between 1 and 2 was a material change.  Once the bodies were made with a different material, they had a "Revision M" injected into the mold.  Rev M mags are Gen 2 mags.  If they are the older style, and don't have Rev M in them, they are first generation mags.  They changed mags didn't really get the name "Gen 2" until they were offered cheaper, without the dust cover, and were marketed as "Gen 2 MOE" mags, to follow the lower pricing of the rest of the MOE line...

So, old style with no Rev M = Gen 1.  old style with Rev M = Gen 2.

  This one in the photo has a Dust cover of the same color , i'll have to look , but I may not have any gen 1 's , I have to look now , I have a bunch still in the wrappers .  

 I sorted out 20 more LC that are in the 1.760" class length for forming & through research the trim to length is 1.750" just as a 5.56/.223 .

[survivalshop]

  Metal mags will not have any issues like the PMags & I like Pmags , but with the metal they don't need any alterations to use these bullets . I will be getting some 87 gr. soon to try also . I already am reloading 25-45 & will have some results soon with my loads , I'm not using any of the Powders listed ,that are being used , should be interesting , one way or the other .

  One thing , my brass came out very pretty from the SS tumbling . Didn't have to trim much , all are @ 1.750"

[survivalshop]

[survivalshop]

 Loaded five each of 

23.0 gr IMR 3031

23.3 gr.-IMR 3031

23.6 gr. IMR 3031-C

24 gr. IMR 4895

24.5 gr. - IMR 4895-C

For testing with Chrono.. not sure how these Powders will do , I might even try Ramshot TAC & no you won't see these Powders listed for the 25-45 Sharps . Some of these are very slightly compressed .

Edited May 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[jtallen83]

SS, I hope you scan all your loading notes for posterity. With all the detailed testing and experimenting you do those would be some valuable notes for loaders. I hope to get back on the bench when I retire from this traveling circus and would love to be able to reference all your work.

[98Z5V]

I've searched alot for load data on this cartridge, and I've seen 3031 discussed by a several people, as well as IMR 4895.  H322 and H335 both work well, based on results of others.

This is all an experiment for us, thus far.  The Actual load data from Sharps is pretty thin...

 

 

[survivalshop]

2 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

I've searched alot for load data on this cartridge, and I've seen 3031 discussed by a several people, as well as IMR 4895.  H322 and H335 both work well, based on results of others.

This is all an experiment for us, thus far.  The Actual load data from Sharps is pretty thin...

 

 

Just like it was for the 300BLK at first .

I'm using  6mmx45 data , pretty close , but won't know till I try . They read that you won't get much or peak Velocity , but we all know that high Velocity doesn't necessarily mean accuracy . I didn't want to spend a $$ on one pound of the ones SRC listed till I see whats is what with what I have , since I have a decent collection of Powders . I also don't have anywhere local to get any .

 Now ya cant say this isn't fun !

Edited May 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[survivalshop]

 I would also like to add , that the New MEC single stage Press is still pumping out precise concentricity Ammo , all with in 0.001" run out , with Lee Dies . I will be taking these 25-45 Sharps & the 308's I loaded to see if they do shoot better because of the Run Out .

Edited May 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[survivalshop]

   Was going to go to the range today , but glad I looked at the web sight  schedule , DHS will be there . Tomorrow is another day.

[survivalshop]

On 5/6/2017 at 8:31 AM, jtallen83 said:

SS, I hope you scan all your loading notes for posterity. With all the detailed testing and experimenting you do those would be some valuable notes for loaders. I hope to get back on the bench when I retire from this traveling circus and would love to be able to reference all your work.

Hell, most of it already here , with Chrono results  Though its pretty much spread out though. I keep logs of all that I have tested. 

[98Z5V]

I'm calling this one finished.  Got the scope in for it, mounted and leveled.  Primary Arms 4-14x44 mil/mil first focal plane.  I'll leave it in the SWFA Bobro mount.  It's done now.

Next is to re-zero it with this scope, then dope it all out, put a sticky on the stock, and get some coyotes. 

[392heminut]

On 5/12/2017 at 11:42 PM, 98Z5V said:

I'm calling this one finished.  Got the scope in for it, mounted and leveled.  Primary Arms 4-14x44 mil/mil first focal plane.  I'll leave it in the SWFA Bobro mount.  It's done now.

Next is to re-zero it with this scope, then dope it all out, put a sticky on the stock, and get some coyotes. 

Nice!

[survivalshop]

    All ammo worked flawlessly in this new build , no FTF or FTE , Bolt held back on all loads , but I wish I could say all was good with my fancy Chrono. , the Magnitospeed would give the first reading then would do one of three things , no matter where or how I set it up , it would show ERROR , Half the first recorded speed or double the first speed . 

   I will post photo's later & the results , I did load some WC 846 Pull down Powder , 24.6 gr. & had more room in the case for a couple of more Grains & it had the fastest Velocity of all three Powders of 2557 FPS , but that was the first round out the Barrel all others were Error's , kinda pissed me off . New battery in the Magnetospeed  Chrono made no difference . So basically I have to set up my RCBS Chrono , & this fancy one , just to make sure what is happening , I don't trust any of the results .

  No Muzzle Brake , just a thread protector & very little if any recoil or muzzle jump from the 20" bbl. , brass was ejected at about five feet back around 1430 o'clock or so ,. (all loads  dropped in the same place  .

  Rifle was " lightly "lubed with the "98 special" , lube & I will disassemble , but not clean anything but the Barrel & Chamber .

 

  Just talked with Magnetospeed & they said I need to make an adj. on the sensitivity settings , so I will try that later this week . 

  My notes & Target photo's later ,

#1-23.0 gr. ,3031 -2380 fps

#2-23.3 gr. ,3031 - 2400 fps

#3-23.6 gr. 3031 - 2422 fps

#4-24.0 gr.  4895- 2252 fps

#5-24.5 gr.  4895 - no readings 

#6-24.6 gr. WC 846 - 2557 fps .

Edited May 17, 2017 by survivalshop

[survivalshop]

Target with shot numbers ,  #3 shot group was shot at two different aiming points because I didn't see where they were hitting on the first two shots at the top left small diamond , so I moved to the bottom left , just so I could see where they were hitting . The first shot group was just to see where the impact would be & # 2 shot group was after I made some elevation adj. to move it more to center .

 My target Velocity is around 2700 fps , of course that will change depending on how the charges shoot . Seems the WC 846 has potential with the 2557 fps , if the readings are correct , too bad I only have a small amount left , will look for something close to it , BLC2 comes to mind . 

 All in all , at least the rifle & ammo worked , just need to do more testing . Hard to read because I didn't high light the numbers  , but # 1is bottom center , #2 is center right , # 3 is two off target & three center left , #4 is top right , #5 is bottom left & #6 is bottom right . 

 I numbered the loads in the above post .

[98Z5V]

I like it, brother.  Alot!... 

All those powders look like good powders for this cartridge.  Did you get any of the ES and SD numbers from those loads?

[survivalshop]

7 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

I like it, brother.  Alot!... 

All those powders look like good powders for this cartridge.  Did you get any of the ES and SD numbers from those loads?

   Not even sure those numbers are correct , I did get one or two & in some loads ,three in a row that were all with in a range , then I would get a reading of 4600+fps & that screwed all the ES & SD up . Magnitospeed instructed me to adj. the sensitivity setting on the the program for the smaller Caliber .That could be why when I tried it once on a 5.56 bbl. , it was wacking out the same way .

   The 3031 & 4895 are not going any further , they are slightly compressed load already ( maybe with much lighter Bullets ) . I'm not going to pursue those Powders any further with this Bullet. The WC 846 seems to show it going in the right direction .

[survivalshop]

  Just ordered 

Ramshot - X-terminator Powder

Hodgdon -H335  Powder 

And Speer 87 gr. hot core Bullets 

 We will see how these work also . I also used some Remington Bench rest Primers , just for comparison to the CCI's .